There seems to be a current trend of: “anyone that doesn’t like a film with a woman in it is automatically a (insert whatever buzz words are going around), and it got me thinking; why not have a thread where people can openly discuss their reasoning to try and understand others points of view. The vast majority of people would no doubt agree that equality is a no-brainer; everyone should have equal rights and respect. So with that in mind, I started to think back at films, over the last roughly 50 years, and tried to think of films where woman have been openly and overtly been labelled toxic, told they are useless, maliciously put down, are not needed, and can do nothing right.
Some general thoughts here
1) To take some of the emotional charge out of this topic ( maybe...), a good crossover example is the WNBA. It only continues to exist and survive because it is essentially subsidized completely by the parent NBA. On it's own, the WNBA would never get it's own TV contract. It can only be aired, usually shoved in a corner, because the networks are essentially forced to do so as part of a larger package with the more lucrative NBA broadcasting packages. The WNBA consistently loses money. And has so for decades. The average paid attendance IIRC still hovers around 1000 a night. That's "average". Given the cost of parking, concessions and gasoline while factoring in inflation, it's a struggle for many franchises to even give away tickets.
Bill Burr points out something that's IMHO pretty obvious but it's not generally politically correct to say out loud. ( He gets to do it because he has a huge platform and he's a comedian more in the vein of a George Carlin, so the total social context kind of protects him somewhat here) -
That women in general do not support the WNBA. People vote with their feet and vote with their wallet and the "election" results show that the WNBA is a bad product. No one goes to an expensive restaurant to order a 20 dollar peanut butter and jelly sandwich. Well it's not going to be common. You don't want to go to pay, in part, for an experience, for something you can make at home by yourself. It's part of why the WNBA fails, it often looks like a boys high school basketball game. Also there are some issues off the court that don't help, not at all, but I am going to limit myself here somewhat, and simply say plenty of current and former WNBA players that have said and done things that have gone viral that don't exactly endear themselves to fans in general.
If women across the country supported the WNBA, it would be a massive success. Women in America have HUGE purchasing power and they've been researched and studied as a key economic demographic for decades upon decades now. There are ways to market to women, but you can't sell anyone a bad "product" for very long. But you'll never see WNBA players admit that the majority of women in the country simply don't give a damn about them nor their sport.
How this applies to TV and film is that if women in general, particularly in the industry, want to see more productions and opportunities for women across the board, then they have to generate massive financial success when they get those opportunities right now. And they just are not. And historically they have not. Not on a broad scale. I've said this in another thread, at some point, you just need to make a good film that entertains the audience, speaks to them on a level regarding the human condition and generate some good "word of mouth". Just some different tweaks towards new age activism only goes so far. Shock marketing only goes so far. Virtue signaling only goes so far. Cooking out the trailers can only go so far. At some point, you just need good meat on the grill.
2) Part of the issue is ultimately a math problem. In front of the camera, there have always been, statistically speaking, fewer roles for women than men. Disproportionately so. And many are segmented into certain established archetypes. Two ways to look at it. That women have been pigeonholed by the industry. That's one perspective that's often cited and used like a battering ram. Or, less commonly said out loud, that at least women have a subset of roles carved out for them. An underlying factor, across all industries, is "ageism" The industry is not forgiving of women who manage break out in front of the camera as they age. But that's true across all kinds of industries, even outside of Hollywood. That's a function of human nature, not just identity politics. This is an area that can be more heavily discussed, but maybe I'll save some of this for another time.
3) From an industry perspective, a lot of the women creatives who did break out, a lot of people just don't like working with them or for them. A lot of people outright despise Jenji Kohan, Lena Dunham, Shonda Rhimes and others. I'm not saying male creatives aren't gigantic PITAs as well, but when you exist as a smaller subset to start, you just don't have the same margin of error. A large part of creating opportunity is "networking", this isn't restricted to Hollywood,
and it doesn't open doors for you when you keep burning bridges. You want to work with people you know, that you trust, that have delivered for you in the past, where there is a level of "cost certainty", where they have proven they can get it done under adverse conditions, in heavy time/budget constraints, without adding too much unneeded drama. But our current culture exists as such that you can't really say these things out loud to women in general, so no one says anything and just avoids them. That's not "misogyny" in my book, it's self preservation. Everyone, and I mean EVERYONE, is capable of being a complete and total d#ucheb#g in this life. But our society simply does not hold all of us equally to account to that standard. Wealthy people get more rope. Good looking people to the point of being "hot", get more rope. Connected people via nepotism get more rope. And yes, even a large share of women get more rope.
If women in the industry want more opportunity, they have to do their best to maximize the opportunities they get right now. They need to knock it out of the park and generate huge numbers consistently.
BUT PARTICULARLY THAT REGULARLY DRAWS IN LOTS OF WOMEN VIEWERS. Identity politics is not the God of Hollywood, it's money. Create things that become a printing press for money, and you can write your own ticket. That's everyone. Man, woman, Martian, blue, white, purple, gay, straight, young, old, whatever.
So from my perspective, experience and observation in the industry, these are the kind of conversations you can't have in public. You can't really have them in private. You'll just be massacred for saying any of this. So no one says anything and there are activists who are prepared to go down with the ship. I wouldn't say most people out there are IMHO fundamentally good people. But I will say nearly all people are not racists, they aren't bigots, they aren't misogynists, they aren't looking to hurt other people. They are likely to be everyday working class people just trying to get by in life. Pay their rent, buy a few toys, put food on the table for the kids, maybe share a laugh or a beer or two sometime and make the best of their current situation. And all these people have problems of their own. You can't make them care, spend money and support you by trying to guilt them, corner them, shame them and attempt to "cancel" them. Real life people don't work that way.
So I won't say each and every last thing is fair for every woman in the industry. I've seen some pretty ugly things. But no one gets a bed of roses all the time in life. You get dealt a hand of cards. Now you have to play them. That's it. That's all there is to it. Even if sometimes it's unfair. If women in Hollywood, or even outside of it, want "better", however they define it, they have to do less complaining and go create relative massive "success" on their own. This is how you write your own ticket in life.
"I used to have horrible cars that would always end up broken down on the highway. When I tried to flag someone down, nobody stopped. But if I pushed my own car, other drivers would get out and push with me. If you want help, help yourself - people like to see that." - Chris Rock
“The best revenge is massive success.” - Frank Sinatra
