Blade Runner Figure?

[sladesuperagent]

For those of you who haven't seen it, here's On the Edge of Blade Runner. Hopefully it'll be on the box set.

Thanx for that!!! I've never seen it!

 

[dekadentdave]

Yes, It' true that this absurd idea circulates. If you choose to belive that Deckard was a replicant, your business. To me, the movie only makes sense with Deckard being human.

I'm in the camp that Dekard IS a Replicant. Why? Because there is a profound irony behind the idea that when Dekard suddenly realizes that he is a Replicant that perpetuates the idea that EVERYONE on Earth is a Replicant and nothing is real anymore and all that is left is this artificial reality of a civilization that once was. Even the animals in the film, like the book, are all Replicants. When Zora says "Of course it's not a real, do you think I'd be working in a place like this if I could afford a real snake?" implies that the exoticness of owning something real and not artificial is a commodity based on the scarcity of natural life left on Earth. It is entirely likely that nothing real remains but nobody is aware of that shocking fact let alone the fact that they themselves are not real.

 

[Batty]

I'm in the camp that Dekard IS a Replicant. Why? Because there is a profound irony behind the idea that when Dekard suddenly realizes that he is a Replicant that perpetuates the idea that EVERYONE on Earth is a Replicant and nothing is real anymore and all that is left is this artificial reality of a civilization that once was. Even the animals in the film, like the book, are all Replicants. When Zora says "Of course it's not a real, do you think I'd be working in a place like this if I could afford a real snake?" implies that the exoticness of owning something real and not artificial is a commodity based on the scarcity of natural life left on Earth. It is entirely likely that nothing real remains but nobody is aware of that shocking fact let alone the fact that they themselves are not real.

Very interesting idea, DD. It almost makes me want to believe. Almost.

And while I agree with you about the deleted Holden scene (bad over-acting), it actually gives more credence to the argument. Replicants were getting harder to identify. Maybe there were a lot more out there than they thought.

 

[dekadentdave]

What is interesting is that Tyrell Corp. is a HUGE corporation. They are the Microsoft of the future with Elden Tyrell as its Bill Gates. They are so big that they have a monolithic pyramid that stands out prominently in the L.A. landscape. Now, how could a company of this size prosper just from manufacturing some offworld labor and combat models that have been declared "illegal" after a bloody mutiny by the Nexus 6? The Nexus 6 are an obsolete model with a 4 year lifespan, while the "special" ones with unknown expiration dates have been seamlessly integrated into society. The corporation is sending Blade Runner squads to "retire" the obsolete models. When Bryant says "You know the score pal, you're little people," just what does he mean by this exactly?

When Dekard delivers the line "How can it not know what it is?" there is a double irony there. Rachel didn't know she was a Replicant until Rick told her, but Rick isn't aware that he is too, but Gaff does. And how would Gaff know this unless he's figured it out that they are ALL Replicants which is why he just doesn't give a damn when he lets Rachel and Dekard go because he sees the utter futility in hunting down Replicants in an artificial world where humanity has been replaced by genetically engineered facsimiles. "It's too bad she won't live, but then again, who does."

 

[abake]

I like the way you think DD!:chew

 

[Wor-Gar]

Rachel didn't know she was a Replicant until Rick told her, but Rick isn't aware that he is too, but Gaff does. And how would Gaff know this unless he's figured it out that they are ALL Replicants which is why he just doesn't give a damn when he lets Rachel and Dekard go because he sees the utter futility in hunting down Replicants in an artificial world where humanity has been replaced by genetically engineered facsimiles. "It's too bad she won't live, but then again, who does."

That begs the question: is Gaff a replicant too?

 

[dekadentdave]

That begs the question: is Gaff a replicant too?

Re-read my last statement.

And to add more fuel to the arguement, when Rachel asks Dekard "Have you ever tried taking that test yourself?" suggests that Dekard may have been too afraid of the results if he VK'd himself. There are lots of clues to suggest that he is. When the line between reality and artifice becomes blurred, how do we define our reality? Is the life of a Replicant any less significant than the life of a human being?

"Memories. You're talking about memories." The idea that everyone's personality is implanted by memories of real human beings that have lived before them and now exist like residual ghosts of an extinct human civilization. That is a pretty scary thought. I think these concepts are what Phillip K. Dick is getting at in his works.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Ooops. Sorry, Dave, I read right over that.

Its a cool idea... I like Bladerunner better with that concept in mind.

 

[pjam]

I have Scott's Directors cut as I'm sure many of you guys have and it definitely alludes to Deckard being a "humanoid" the way it plays out with the added unicorn scene... even says so on the box notes if I remember.

 

[gdb]

Here's an intersting bit from https://www.harrisonfordweb.com/Article/WLB/no_lies.php

Quoting Ford:

"I knew at the time that Ridley had an ambition for Deckard to be a replicant," says Ford, with a hint of annoyance about that memory bobbing up in his voice. "But when we first started, I said that I didn't like that idea. I thought the audience needed to have one person onscreen that they are assured - either emotionally or through context or dialogue - is a real human being. So that they can have an emotional relationship with some character that's on the screen. And Ridley said, 'Yeah, yeah, yeah.' And I always thought that he had grudgingly accepted my point of view. Later on, as the film developed, there were certain things that he did that I knew were indications of his point of view that Deckard was a replicant." "And I argued against them," he adds, referring to, among other things, a scene that showed his eyes glowing, in a very similar manner to the eyes of the replicants. "But, of course, it's a director's medium, so Ridley prevailed. But he continues to say that he thinks it's one of the best films he ever made. It's too bad that the actor playing the lead role had no idea what was going on. I thought I did at the time."

But being critical, there's still just not enough, IMO, to really make the arguement. It's there, surely, but buried so deep you really need to be a deconstructionist to see it.

In contrast, look at Memento, made by Bladerunner fan Chris Nolan. That film mined the indentity arguement from conception to realization and really nailed it.

 

[dekadentdave]

I remember Harrison Ford being asked if Deckard was a replicant and he said that Scott never discussed it with him and he certainly didn't see it that way. The original screenplay I read also made it clear that he was human and the idea that he was not was a non-issue.

Which makes Ford's naivity about his character being a replicant even more convincing as Dekard is completely in the dark about this fact himself up until he picks up Gaff's origami figure and nods. Ridley always wanted the film to end there but the studio insisted on tacking on The Shining ending after that so he want back and dropped it and added the unicorn dream sequence (stock footage from Legend) to provide visual references to allude to Dekard as a Rep.

 

[gdb]

Which makes Ford's naivity about his character being a replicant even more convincing as Dekard is completely in the dark about this fact himself up until he picks up Gaff's origami figure and nods. Ridley always wanted the film to end there but the studio insisted on tacking on The Shining ending after that so he want back and dropped it and added the unicorn dream sequence (stock footage from Legend) to provide visual references to allude to Dekard as a Rep.

Darn! I edited my post too late and you quoted part of it!

Good point though. Probably why Scott didn't press the issue with Ford.

 

[yruh8n]

If this license happens anytime soon I kind of hope Sideshow doesn't get it. As long as they are doing Star Wars and Lord of the Rings, they are not going to show to much love for anything else. We would be offered Deckard and Batty, and that would probably be it. Based on the Harrison Ford sculpts they have produced so far, I don't have a lot of hope for a quality Deckard likeness from them. I would rather see a company who feels like they have something to prove take off with this in the form of exceptional likenesses, and more figures than just the two main characters. If SS makes them, I will buy, and keep my fingers crossed that the sales are enough to convience them to make many characters from the film.

 

[superado]

If this license happens anytime soon I kind of hope Sideshow doesn't get it. As long as they are doing Star Wars and Lord of the Rings, they are not going to show to much love for anything else. We would be offered Deckard and Batty, and that would probably be it. Based on the Harrison Ford sculpts they have produced so far, I don't have a lot of hope for a quality Deckard likeness from them. I would rather see a company who feels like they have something to prove take off with this in the form of exceptional likenesses, and more figures than just the two main characters. If SS makes them, I will buy, and keep my fingers crossed that the sales are enough to convience them to make many characters from the film.

My "wants" of other figures in order,

Rachel
Pris
Gaff
Tyrell

 

[dekadentdave]

If this license happens anytime soon I kind of hope Sideshow doesn't get it. As long as they are doing Star Wars and Lord of the Rings, they are not going to show to much love for anything else. We would be offered Deckard and Batty, and that would probably be it. Based on the Harrison Ford sculpts they have produced so far, I don't have a lot of hope for a quality Deckard likeness from them. I would rather see a company who feels like they have something to prove take off with this in the form of exceptional likenesses, and more figures than just the two main characters. If SS makes them, I will buy, and keep my fingers crossed that the sales are enough to convience them to make many characters from the film.

I agree, their Ford likeness on Han Solo was pretty bad. I still have my Android Hunter v.3 and Batty bootlegs which are pretty decent. I upgraded the bodies on them which improved them a lot. Whoever "officially" produces figures from this license probably won't produce many characters. Aside from those two they might do Pris and Rachel but that is about it. I can't see much enthusiasm for Leon or Zora or even a Gaff for that matter. Let's face it, they just aren't popular enough to sell to mass appeal.

My hope is that Hot Toys makes them as part of their Movie Masterpiece series and makes Dekard's police spinner in 1:6 scale. That would own.

 

[galactiboy]

My hope is that Hot Toys makes them as part of their Movie Masterpiece series and makes Dekard's police spinner in 1:6 scale. That would own.

Yes Hot Toys could do the line justice for sure... great call!

 

[sladesuperagent]

I can't see much enthusiasm for Leon or Zora or even a Gaff for that matter. Let's face it, they just aren't popular enough to sell to mass appeal.

Yeah, but let's not underestimate the power of a 25th anniversary. If they're putting all 4 versions of the film in a box set, a statement is being made that people love this film. I'm not holding my breath for a 1/6 Holden or anything, but we might at least see a Pris.

 

[Alice Adrenochrome]

...
When Dekard delivers the line "How can it not know what it is?" there is a double irony there. Rachel didn't know she was a Replicant until Rick told her, but Rick isn't aware that he is too, but Gaff does.

Again, this is only true if you go with the Directors cut. I myself prefer the theatrical version. I'm not blind to the hints given in the directors cut, but as far as I'm concerned, making Dekard a replicant, corrupts the entire seed of the story. I don't belive Philip K. Dick mend for Deckard to be a replicant. And the fact that there are so few real animals left in his story/the movie doesn't necessarily have to be an indication that ALL life is artificial. It could just be an illustration of how people treated nature, and the planet in general. The weak always have to yield first (you do know how WE treat animals, don't you?). I think Dick is just showing us an exaggeration of what he has experienced in his time.

... "It's too bad she won't live, but then again, who does."

Yes, who does?
The fact that Gaff says these words to Deckard, implies that Gaff takes Deckard for a human: Dekard has a natural life span, whereas Rachel has not. So, Gaff is telling Deckard that he will be "loosing" his beloved one, facing a time of grief and pain. Gaff didn't find it necessary to hunt down Rachel, because she will die soon anyway as he believes. He "grants" Deckard a few years of happiness, so to speak.

 

[Alice Adrenochrome]

Picture this:
Batty dies, saying his final words:

I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire of the shore of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark at Tannhauser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time like tears in rain. Time to die.

I get goosebumps every time I hear 'em. So beautiful.

Batty dies, reciting these truly strong words to Deckard. If Deckard were a replicant, these words wouldn't be as powerful. Batty mistakes his opponent for a human?


oh and...

Deckard voice-over: I don't know why he saved my life. Maybe in those last moments he loved life more than he ever had before. Not just his life, anybody's life, my life. All he'd wanted were the same answers the rest of us want. Where did I come from? Where am I going? How long have I got? All I could do was sit there and watch him die.

You've got to love that voice over! I know I do!

 

[dekadentdave]

Batty dies, reciting these truly strong words to Deckard. If Deckard were a replicant, these words wouldn't be as powerful. Batty mistakes his opponent for a human?

Again, Replicants are genetically engineered human constructs. Rachel has feelings, emotions and memories like any human and she thought she was human, so why wouldn't Dekard? In Batty's final moments he was very sentimental about life, not just his life, anybody's. I think this is the most profound aspect about Dekard being a Replicant because it's implications on how we define humanity in a world left of artifice. It no longer matters that they are not real humans but that they think, feel, love, and die just like humans. And in a world where you can no longer differentiate between what is real and what is artificial, the very idea of that is profound indeed.