Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (March 24th, 2016)

[jye4ever]

Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)

I have, but he's a real Batman fan, he seems to judge the movie a bit harsh based on the comics and who Batman is in the comics. TDKR doesn't contradict anything from the first two movies and works well within the Nolan-verse.

Like I've said before, Robert Downey doesn't really emulate Tony Stark at all, yet Marvel fans can't get enough of him, but any changes to how Bale portrayed Bruce from the comics/cartoon and fans go crazy. I can appreciate these movies because I understand their telling their own stories that are separate from the comics.


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That's the critical piece right there pturtle.

For some, it doesn't.

For others, it does.

It really just comes down to that.

For me it 100% does contradict.

 

[crows]

Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)

I liked Bane. The only thing that bothered me about the twist is that Bane has never been a minion. He is always the guy with the plan. I have no problem with him teaming up with Talia, because he has done that before, but making him basically a dog on a leash did strip the character of some of his badassness.

it was almost like Nolan was paying Homage to BATMAN and ROBIN. Bane was a minion in there and to another woman no less.

It really feels like if he felt that part of Batman and Robin was worth having in Rises. Technically Bane and Talia or Bane and Poison Ivy had the same relationship. Bane working for them

 

[karamazov80]

Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)

Like I've said before, Robert Downey doesn't really emulate Tony Stark at all, yet Marvel fans can't get enough of him, but any changes to how Bale portrayed Bruce from the comics/cartoon and fans go crazy.

That's true, but it could be because Tony Stark in the comics is a ********* that no one really likes. The RDJ changes were all for the best

Batman, on the other hand, is much beloved for his comics incarnation.

 

[Darth Zangetsu]

Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)

see, THIS is why I get pissed and I start hating the movie sometimes. It took you guys like FIVE MINUTES to think of a better way to make Bruce be hurt and injured by the time Rises starts.

these people took months and were paid millions to come up with a story for the third movie. And they couldn't even make Batman be active behind the shadows for those 8 years. Even if they didn't show anything but if they at least acknowledge it........

Yeah, but we are also cobbling together from their story. But I think ultimately the difference is, we are basically people on a toy forum talking about these characters. We love Batman, X-Men, Cap, etc. and their stories. The guys writing these scripts are not fans for the most part. They are just mercenaries. When you understand the characters and their history, it is a lot easier to come up with stuff that fits, than if you just see this as another paycheck.

 

[crows]

Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)

Yeah, but we are also cobbling together from their story. But I think ultimately the difference is, we are basically people on a toy forum talking about these characters. We love Batman, X-Men, Cap, etc. and their stories. The guys writing these scripts are not fans for the most part. They are just mercenaries. When you understand the characters and their history, it is a lot easier to come up with stuff that fits, than if you just see this as another paycheck.

my point is that it seems so obvious that they could have had Batman just be active those 8 years. that's what I never understood about the movie. Why do the 8 year gap? what purpose did it have? why not 5 years or why not 3. seems like such a random number.

 

[morphosis]

Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)

I liked Bane. The only thing that bothered me about the twist is that Bane has never been a minion. He is always the guy with the plan. I have no problem with him teaming up with Talia, because he has done that before, but making him basically a dog on a leash did strip the character of some of his badassness.

I loved that twist. it made perfect sense. It all tied together perfectly with Ras, Talia and Bane. They didn't follow the comics which to me is a good thing so that its a little different and unexpected.

I dont see it stripping Bane out of anything. The guy was an incredible villain. The fight scene with Batman in the sewers was amazing and loved the dialogue. And almost felt bad for him because he loved Talia. Love & loss is an occurring theme through the films, thats why they were more than just Comic Book films. Thats why i think these films are so great, because they took a comic book character and made it a real drama. Its not all just bells and whistles like say Iron Man is. Not there is anything wrong with IM films, just TDK Trilogy is more than just a movie based off a comic book and I think thats why it has such a wide appeal. And TDK Rises took a lot of influence from other things, like Tale of Two Cities, not just comic books.

Also the complaint that Batman some have mentioned, I don't agree with at all. He didn't quit. His purpose was to make Batman everlasting. He mentioned this in Begins. He is only but a man, he can be beaten and destroyed, but as a symbol, Batman can live on forever. And the only way to do that is to pass the torch, and thats what he did. Batman will live forever, Bruce Wayne won't. The comics have the ability to last forever without a character aging and dying. But real life there isn't that luxury. So to give a bit of realism to what someone like Bruce Wayne would go through, he is going to age, and he will not live forever. So he needs to pass everything on to someone else. He didn't quit. He just couldn't physically do it anymore and he needed someone who could that would have the same convictions as him....Blake.

If people don't like the way it was done, so be it. But he didn't quit.

 

[crows]

Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)

I loved that twist. it made perfect sense. It all tied together perfectly with Ras, Talia and Bane. They didn't follow the comics which to me is a good thing so that its a little different and unexpected.

I dont see it stripping Bane out of anything. The guy was an incredible villain. The fight scene with Batman in the sewers was amazing and loved the dialogue. And almost felt bad for him because he loved Talia. Love & loss is an occurring theme through the films, thats why they were more than just Comic Book films. Thats why i think these films are so great, because they took a comic book character and made it a real drama. Its not all just bells and whistles like say Iron Man is. Not there is anything wrong with IM films, just TDK Trilogy is more than just a movie based off a comic book and I think thats why it has such a wide appeal. And TDK Rises took a lot of influence from other things, like Tale of Two Cities, not just comic books.

Also the complaint that Batman some have mentioned, I don't agree with at all. He didn't quit. His purpose was to make Batman everlasting. He mentioned this in Begins. He is only but a man, he can be beaten and destroyed, but as a symbol, Batman can live on forever. And the only way to do that is to pass the torch, and thats what he did. Batman will live forever, Bruce Wayne won't. The comics have the ability to last forever without a character aging and dying. But real life there isn't that luxury. So to give a bit of realism to what someone like Bruce Wayne would go through, he is going to age, and he will not live forever. So he needs to pass everything on to someone else. He didn't quit. He just couldn't physically do it anymore and he needed someone who could that would have the same convictions as him....Blake.

If people don't like the way it was done, so be it. But he didn't quit.

at the end of the day Bane was just following orders which is what sucks. Worst of all he was following orders and was going to die for love....
People make fun of Spiderman because of the sappy romantic story yet Bane's story was even sappier.

before the twist Bane was like a diabolical badass, he was tough as hell and was bent on destruction. After the twist the whole movie changes.

the movie becomes this, like when Homer does this:

"Do it for her"......
it changes the entire movie. he takes down the plane, he puts batman in the prison, he kills people in Gotham, goes against Batman at the end..

and Bane just...."Did It For Her"

 

[morphosis]

Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)

my point is that it seems so obvious that they could have had Batman just be active those 8 years. that's what I never understood about the movie. Why do the 8 year gap? what purpose did it have? why not 5 years or why not 3. seems like such a random number.

Its very much like Frank Millers TDK Returns. He was retired for 10 years after the death of the 2nd Robin took a tole on him. Then at 55 years old came back because crime was increasing in Gotham.

 

[pturtle]

Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)

at the end of the day Bane was just following orders which is what sucks. Worst of all he was following orders and was going to die for love....
People make fun of Spiderman because of the sappy romantic story yet Bane's story was even sappier.

before the twist Bane was like a diabolical badass, he was tough as hell and was bent on destruction. After the twist the whole movie changes.

the movie becomes this, like when Homer does this:

"Do it for her"......
it changes the entire movie. he takes down the plane, he puts batman in the prison, he kills people in Gotham, goes against Batman at the end..

and Bane just...."Did It For Her"

No, he had his own agenda, he was obsessed to succeed where Ra's failed, destroying Gotham. Being shunned from the League is what motivated him. That's why I say, Bane and Talia were more of partners with their own agenda.


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[crows]

Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)

No, he had his own agenda, he was obsessed to succeed where Ra's failed, destroying Gotham. Being shunned from the League is what motivated him. That's why I say, Bane and Talia were more of partners with their own agenda.


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he was in love. Remember that look he gives her at the very end when she says "Good bye my friend"

Those were love eyes.

 

[crows]

Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)

Its very much like Frank Millers TDK Returns. He was retired for 10 years after the death of the 2nd Robin took a tole on him. Then at 55 years old came back because crime was increasing in Gotham.

the problem is that it didn't fit this story. If fit that story better. here it doesn't make sense.

 

[karamazov80]

Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)

From my viewing, Nolan seemed to pretty clearly be making the case that Talia was pulling the strings all along, and that you were supposed to view the previous scenes in the movie in a different light. Nothing inherently wrong with that--I think it is the story he wanted to tell--but I think it definitely affects the nature of Bane, just like the reveal of Trevor in Iron Man 3.

 

[pturtle]

Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)

he was in love. Remember that look he gives her at the very end when she says "Good bye my friend"

Those were love eyes.

She also had "love eyes", but what does that have to do with their reasons for destroying Gotham? She wanted to avenge her father, he wanted to succeed where her father failed.


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[morphosis]

Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)

at the end of the day Bane was just following orders which is what sucks. Worst of all he was following orders and was going to die for love....
People make fun of Spiderman because of the sappy romantic story yet Bane's story was even sappier.

before the twist Bane was like a diabolical badass, he was tough as hell and was bent on destruction. After the twist the whole movie changes.

the movie becomes this, like when Homer does this:

"Do it for her"......
it changes the entire movie. he takes down the plane, he puts batman in the prison, he kills people in Gotham, goes against Batman at the end..

and Bane just...."Did It For Her"

well thats your opinion. But he did it for her and also Ras and loyalty to The League of Shadows. That was his purpose. Its a bit more powerful I think to be that loyal to something for all those years because of his love for her. It gave him a purpose and meaning. In the comics he took on Batman because of a dream he had about fighting a bat while in solitary for many years. I think the love story is more powerful and makes more sense for Nolan's world.

 

[crows]

Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)

the point is that he was ready to die "For Her" not for avenging Ras or any of that... the twist scene is very telling because you can see that Bane deep inside, he truly just did it all for her.

Sure he told the audience and himself it was to avenge Ras and to finish his work, but that was just someone in denial trying to justify his love.

 

[Darth Zangetsu]

Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)

well thats your opinion. But he did it for her and also Ras and loyalty to The League of Shadows. That was his purpose. Its a bit more powerful I think to be that loyal to something for all those years because of his love for her. It gave him a purpose and meaning. In the comics he took on Batman because of a dream he had about fighting a bat while in solitary for many years. I think the love story is more powerful and makes more sense for Nolan's world.

I am one of the people who likes the movie, but I can't cosign this statement. He did it for Talia. He loved her. I don't think he cared one bit about Ras or the League. It was about Talia. He was crippled trying to save her, and she came back for him. She left the League when Bane was kicked out. And Talia admits she hated Ras and couldn't forgive him for what he did to Bane, until Bruce killed him. That gave her a reason to fight. Bane loved her so he joined her cause. Had her cause been to save puppies, I don't think he would have cared. He was down for whatever she was down for. Which isn't a bad thing.

 

[crows]

Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)

I like the movie too and I LOVED Bane.

Even from the first viewing I loved Bane, I loved the look, I loved the attitude. I even love the voice now.


But he did it all for his unconditional love for Talia. he was madly in love, if Talia told Bane to seduce Bruce Wayne for their plan of destruction I bet Bane would have

 

[karamazov80]

Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)

Which isn't a bad thing.

Unless, of course, the viewer previously liked Bane because they thought he was a real bad ass

 

[morphosis]

Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)

the point is that he was ready to die "For Her" not for avenging Ras or any of that... the twist scene is very telling because you can see that Bane deep inside, he truly just did it all for her.

Sure he told the audience and himself it was to avenge Ras and to finish his work, but that was just someone in denial trying to justify his love.

ya exactly, thats what I was saying. To be loyal and love her all those years and he couldn't be with her. He joined LOS all for her. Even getting kicked out of it by Ras, he still was loyal and loved her. I think its a pretty powerful story. And its got a lot of Tale of Two Cities to it where one of the characters was totally in-love with someone all his life but couldn't be with her. Love is a very powerful thing, it can make people do crazy things.

 

[morphosis]

Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)

I am one of the people who likes the movie, but I can't cosign this statement. He did it for Talia. He loved her. I don't think he cared one bit about Ras or the League. It was about Talia. He was crippled trying to save her, and she came back for him. She left the League when Bane was kicked out. And Talia admits she hated Ras and couldn't forgive him for what he did to Bane, until Bruce killed him. That gave her a reason to fight. Bane loved her so he joined her cause. Had her cause been to save puppies, I don't think he would have cared. He was down for whatever she was down for. Which isn't a bad thing.

Ya, i just didn't type that correctly, i meant he joined LOS and was loyal all for her. I was typing too quick and didnt finish my thought in the correct way. i wrote more below.