Without even reading the link here are some of my excerpts from the HT Batmobile thread regarding Batman Returns (yes I'm a fan):
That said
Batman Returns held up AMAZINGLY well. In fact watching it all the way through without such a critical eye there is just so much to like about Returns. It has the dreaded "multiple villain" thing going but to me it just helped to give the impression that Batman/Bruce has his hands full on all levels, both corporately and with regard to crime. Shrek and Selina in the office and Penguin/Circus Gang and Catwoman on the streets.
An incredible rock/paper/scissors of characters and subplots going on with each new encounter. The Batmobile sequences are some of the best in the series, including the Tumbler. I had also unfairly written off the Penguin as a loser who made Batman look lame, but he was actually kind of badass and the execution of his plot to frame Batman was undeniable.
To go from making the Ice Princess (or whatever her name was) fall to her death with Batman looking down as all the bats flood out of the tree to then immediately commandeer his fleeing Batmobile. And this was all only because Catwoman talked him out of just rigging the car to blow and killing him outright (which he obviously could have done.)
And Batman gliding down while everyone runs in terror from the swarm of bats, Nolan obviously like that scene because it was very reminiscent of Batman flying over the narrows when Scarecrow's gas was all over the place.
And I love how Batman just mans up and just takes everything that's thrown at him. No moping or freaking out over being framed, just immediately goes back to work at putting down the criminals. An odd, odd, odd movie that wears its absurdity proudly on its sleeve is now once again one of my favorite Batflicks.
Take that DiFabio!
Don't forget "shut up you're going to jail"
I actually *loved* the banter in Returns (except for the "you don't really think you'll win do you/things change" exchange, that seemed a bit forced.)
The back and forth between Bruce and Shrek is electric and highly entertaining.
Catwoman's comment about every woman Batman tries to save ends up dead or deeply resentful, "maybe you should retire," damn, incredibly harsh (and again, Bruce just takes it like a man, awesome.)
And the hilarious, "who cares who the mayor is," "I care," "Yawn."
There are so many characters and subplots that the film really *should* be a mess...but it isn't. I love how the story just seems to evolve out of the motivations of the characters rather than the characters seemingly just having contrived moments to serve whatever action sequence is called for at the time.
Case in point: Penguin's plan to kill Batman and then murder all the firstborn children. He could have done it! But Catwoman convinced him to tarnish Batman instead (perfectly reasonable for her to guide him that way based on her character and it was perfectly reasonable for the Penguin to be swayed) and Shrek convincing Penguin to run for mayor. Totally unexpected by the Penguin and showed how even in that crazy "world" everybody gets curveballs thrown their way depending on who they are dealing with, not just the "hero" who moves from one action sequence to the next.
Returns is my favorite Batman film, for all the reasons you mentioned. Plus I would add the moment on the dance floor when they discover each other's secret with just a line, was amazing!! And I love when Bruce is still trying to save her, because he cares even at the end. He just wants to go home
I agree. Great moment of irony with them being the only two attendees not in costume at the party. Obviously lifted in part by Nolan for TDKR.
And I love the "prowling Batmobile" scene when he checks up on the Penguin in the Hall of Records. It shows that when a villain is at large he doesn't just sit around until someone lights the Batsignal. He's proactive and investigating even when things are "quiet."
As opposed to in Batman Forever where Two-Face is out pillaging and killing people night after night and teaching Riddler how to punch guys in the face while Bruce is just sitting on his *** at home or in the office.
Walken was superb in Returns. His lines were over the top but he delivered them perfectly. "Who would have thought Selina would have a brain to damage?"
And his little shrug to Penguin when the people start throwing tomatoes at him. Subtle and yet so unquestionably condemning.
And I agree, Keaton and Pfeiffer play their absurd characters in an absurd world with an authenticity that is hard to deny. That look she gives the Penguin after he tried to kill her while he is giving his speech, you just feel the narrative stakes getting more and more personal.
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