1/6th Scale Sideshow Hoth Luke Skywalker (Echo Base)

[TaliBane]

Until you see SS or HT do their version. That's my point. Hold up IG-88 Hasbro to Sideshow. Or Bossk.

Granted robots and monsters will look better than their human likenesses, again because the source material is pretty hokey to begin with. Halloween masks mostly.

Agreed, but not always.

The Hasbro 12" IG-88 head is more screen accurate than the SSC version, as is the Hasbro Bossk's head, even if the SSC figures are obviously a vastly superior product overall. But I'd argue the SSC Bossk looks nearly as wonky overall as the Hasbro version and with a repaint, the Hasbro IG looks more like the movie character than the SSC fig.

And while there's a few glorified Halloween masks in the Cantina, I don't agree that SW's robots and monsters are mostly pretty hokey Halloween mask quality - either in design or execution.

You mean like Fett?

I that figure. Sorry.

 

[Pixelpiper]

You guys realize that you're comparing Apples and Oranges though right? Hasbro would have no problem producing figures as well as the top independent brands if they were (also) in that game - they have the resources, manufacturing facilities and whatever talent they're lacking can easily be contracted (see resources). But their 12" line are clearly not supposed to be the same type of product we're looking at today in 1/6 collectibles. They're toys that have a passing resemblance to the characters, sometimes hits sometimes misses, that have to be robust and take a beating in the hands of kids.

The biggest restriction in the level of detail and robustness today in 1/6 is physics. You just can't change the size of atoms and molecules. Not to mention that no matter the composition, something super tiny is going to have issues of fragility, making some designs/ideas totally impractical. For instance, a metal skeletal hand covered in a pliable membrane.

 

[Wor-Gar]

And while there's a few glorified Halloween masks in the Cantina, I don't agree that SW's robots and monsters are mostly pretty hokey Halloween mask quality - either in design or execution.

I was speaking specifically about the Cantina with that reference, yes, but really Wampas, Ugnaughts, Ewoks, Jabba, Bib, Salicious, Pig Guards, Nunb and every other alien in Star Wars OT are pretty damn hokey. If not masks, then puppets. Yoda is the only one they spent time and money on. But its a fantasy so I don't hold it against SW at all. In fact its part of its charm. But A L I E N these are not.

 

[piccolodaimaoh]

You guys realize that you're comparing Apples and Oranges though right? Hasbro would have no problem producing figures as well as the top independent brands if they were (also) in that game - they have the resources, manufacturing facilities and whatever talent they're lacking can easily be contracted (see resources). But their 12" line are clearly not supposed to be the same type of product we're looking at today in 1/6 collectibles. They're toys that have a passing resemblance to the characters, sometimes hits sometimes misses, that have to be robust and take a beating in the hands of kids.

The biggest restriction in the level of detail and robustness today in 1/6 is physics. You just can't change the size of atoms and molecules. Not to mention that no matter the composition, something super tiny is going to have issues of fragility, making some designs/ideas totally impractical. For instance, a metal skeletal hand covered in a pliable membrane.

You hit the nail on the head. Too often are products made by Sideshow and other collectible companies compared to stuff made in the past by Hasbro, Kenner or even DC Direct. If you think something new you received is awesome that's great but don't compare it to a figure made by a Hasbro for 30.00 bucks from 13 years ago. It's insane. Of course your 200.00 dollar figure is better. It's like comparing a bicycle to a train.

 

[devilof76]

There's no incongruity comparing older, less expensive figures with current offerings if your goal is to illustrate progress.

 

[VintijDroidGutzz]

Weren't some folks there actually saying that (which I agree with) some earlier Hasbro figures still hold up?

Then the comparing is unfair posts..

 

[Pixelpiper]

It's like comparing a bicycle to a train.

Precisely. Barbie dolls are still being made today by Mattel in all manner of shapes/styles/quality - which has nothing to do with higher end 1/6 scale dolls past present or future.

 

[piccolodaimaoh]

There's no incongruity comparing older, less expensive figures with current offerings if your goal is to illustrate progress.

Well if you are talking about comparing a Jedi Luke Skywalker I purchased from Kiddie City in 1983 to a Jedi Luke I purchased at Wallgreens last week then that makes sense. If you are talking about comparing a 12" Luke purchased from TRU in 1997 to the Hot Toys Luke purchased from Big Bad a couple of years ago then I go back to my bicycle vs train metaphor.

 

[Mad Old Lu]

Yes, but the point is that no one was making trains back then--only bicycles. So when Sideshow's trains showed up, they were fantastic. It would have been impossible for anyone to not be impressed by them back then. It's just that now the trains are much better than they were back then.

 

[TaliBane]

I was speaking specifically about the Cantina with that reference, yes, but really Wampas, Ugnaughts, Ewoks, Jabba, Bib, Salicious, Pig Guards, Nunb and every other alien in Star Wars OT are pretty damn hokey. If not masks, then puppets. Yoda is the only one they spent time and money on. But its a fantasy so I don't hold it against SW at all. In fact its part of its charm. But A L I E N these are not.

There's hokey, then there's hokey. Get ready for Ep VII I guess.

And Alien was a "hard" sci-fi movie that had one alien for the entire movie.

Weren't some folks there actually saying that (which I agree with) some earlier Hasbro figures still hold up?

Then the comparing is unfair posts..

Yes, to repeat for clarity, I was saying that certain Hasbro 12" figures are better matches to what was onscreen than their SSC (or Medi or whatever) counterparts, and as an example, said if you give the (15 year old, $25) Hasbro 12" IG-88 a repaint, it looks more like the onscreen character than the SSC version. And yes, I have both and like both.

As for human likenesses, yes, these are repainted by talented customizers, but these are sculpts from Hasbro mass-produced toys from 10-15 years ago...

Happy biking...

And yes, I know this is all majorly...

 

[piccolodaimaoh]

The likeness of Lee and Cushing is uncanny. When Hasbro is on, they're on.

 

[Wor-Gar]

as an example, said if you give the (15 year old, $25) Hasbro 12" IG-88 a repaint, it looks more like the onscreen character than the SSC version. And yes, I have both and like both.

I just don't see it. Even with a repaint, the Hasbro is missing lots of tubes and pipes and little bits here and there.

Old Kenner 12":

Old Hasbro/Kenner 12" -- light years better but still missing lots of details (see crotch area, etc):

Sideshow:

"Real" IG-88:

 

[Pixelpiper]

I just don't see it. Even with a repaint, the Hasbro is missing lots of tubes and pipes and little bits here and there.

At first I was like, "he's totally right, that thing looks like crap" then I saw the Sideshow version and thought to myself "never mind." The Hasbro would be improved one hundred fold with a metal-like paint application. Still not enough for me to want to own IG-88 though.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Let's look at Bossk while we're at it...

The differences seem substantial to me. But maybe its just me.



So bringing this back around, Hoth of yesterday....

Hoth of Tomorrow....

 

[Pixelpiper]

The differences seem substantial to me. But maybe its just me.

Except these differences don't have anything to do with time nor improvements in ability nor processes. They're just examples of completely different products intended for different markets (and purposes). I have a large collection of the Hasbro 12" as you may know.

There are still companies today making products of equal or lesser "quality" and realism than those Hasbro examples, using production lines that are no more vintage than those used to produce Hot Toys and Sideshow's figures.

 

[TaliBane]

I just don't see it. Even with a repaint, the Hasbro is missing lots of tubes and pipes and little bits here and there.

Old Kenner 12":

Old Hasbro/Kenner 12" -- light years better but still missing lots of details (see crotch area, etc):

Sideshow:

"Real" IG-88:

The Sideshow IG-88's head is quite off shape-wise (especially when the light is not on, the "cap" sits higher,) all the cables on the Sideshow are smooth black plastic tubes (the Hasbro has the correct sculpted bumpy tubes) and the Sideshow shoulders aren't wide enough, the bells are too small and have very large pieces cut out for the arm articulation (a design choice, but a very visible one that renders it quite different to the prop.) Also, SSC IG-88 cannot "look down" - his eye pipes are fixed flat so cannot be posed like the prop, whereas the Hasbro can. A subtle detail yes, but to me an important one.

And I didn't say the detail is better on the Hasbro (which it clearly isn't - as I said, the SSC is a vastly superior figure,) just that with a simple repaint overall it looks more like onscreen character.

Hasbro IG-88 with repaint:

Let's look at Bossk while we're at it...

The differences seem substantial to me. But maybe its just me.


So bringing this back around, Hoth of yesterday....

Hoth of Tomorrow....

Hasbro Bossk with customizer reworks (missing leg cartridges for some reason):

But I was solely talking about the head - the Hasbro (it has to be fixed with boiling water - packaging squeezes it narrow) is a quite accurate depiction of the onscreen character, while the SSC is an EU-inspired retake on the Bossk head.

And I said certain figures, and Hoth Luke isn't included in that list - but we're now back on topic

 

[Wor-Gar]

And I said certain figures, and Hoth Luke isn't included in that list - but we're now back on topic

I know I was swinging back around, but I know you got that.

The IG-88 looks tons better with a repaint of course, but the notched tubes -- which being notched may be more accurate -- but they just disappear into the legs, which is not accurate. So really, you're choosing which bits are correct and ignoring those that don't prove your position. I'd say they both have their merits -- but Sideshow doesn't start by needing a repaint. And with Bossk, if you're going to talk about customized figures, then that's a whole different area.

Anyway Pixel is right, the Hasbro were never meant to be "high-end" collectibles, so it is an unfair direct comparison.

But I stand by my original comment which was meant to say: I wouldn't put many Hasbro figures in with my HT/Sideshow ones... except the ones that already look like Halloween masks (like Garindan now comes to mind).

 

[Pixelpiper]

Anyway Pixel is right

That doesn't surprise anyone.

But I stand by my original comment which was meant to say: I wouldn't put many Hasbro figures in with my HT/Sideshow ones... except the ones that already look like Halloween masks (like Garindan now comes to mind).

I'd long forgotten what you guys were on about, but I completely agree with the above. My Hasbro collection sits on its own and displayed for what it is, a collection of children's toys because 1. I love Star Wars and 2. I love toys. My Hot Toys and Sideshow setups are usually more elaborate and while they're certainly "action figures" and toy-like, they're collectibles at the end of the day, intended for adults. Imagine giving DX07 Bespin Luke to an 8 year old. How long would it last? I give it a weekend tops - and that's only because there are two full figures in the box.

 

[TaliBane]

The way I look at it is if the item - whether "high end collectible" or "mass market doll" - looks accurate to the character onscreen, I will use it. Whether it's "fair" to compare or not, regardless of its intended market.

People seem to enjoy dismissing/belittling Hasbro out-of-hand as highly inaccurate but every so often they're passing on stuff that is actually surprisingly accurate, and in a small number of cases, more accurate than the higher-end stuff.

Quite a number of Hasbro products display well with higher-end stuff right out of the box - R5D4, (yes, Garindan,) R2 (yes, even as a shorty,) Jango Fett, Biker Scout, Jawas, IG-88, Zuckuss, Royal Guard, ewoks, Speeder Bike, maybe Death Star Droid...

SSC Bossk to me has a 100% accurate outfit and weapon but the rest - body, head, arms and legs - just doesn't work for me. It's all obvious joints, oddly proportioned body and EU comic book look. Gorgeous, quality figure but not something that looks real accurate to Bossk in ESB.

Greedo's another SSC figure that is gorgeous and I love, but the headsculpt just doesn't look very screen accurate at all.

Whether something looks like a hokey Halloween mask or not (still not with you 100% on that,) overall proportions and headsculpt needs to be accurate to what's onscreen, and even the high-end companies get it wrong from time to time.

Going to be very interesting to see how SSC Hoth Luke comes out... I still haven't ordered it (Han was on day 1)...

 

[Pixelpiper]

Going to be very interesting to see how SSC Hoth Luke comes out... I still haven't ordered it (Han was on day 1)...

I don't pre-order Sideshow stuff as a general rule, but I want both of them. I have high hopes for Spooktacular and I'm hopeful Sideshow run another 12 Days of Christmas so I can feel better about ordering those two. It's also tremendous impetus to do so. long with Tauntaun, that's $750 before shipping, not a small sum that I want to just dump over night. AND… That doesn't even begin to say anything about what we've been discussing, the release of a quality product.

With Hasbro I expect a cool toy. With Sideshow and Hot Toys (any of the higher end 1/6 companies) I expect great realism. When I set one of these guys up, they should look like a small 3 dimensional photograph of 1:1 people. The setup should be believable.