Mother's Basement

[BugStomper]

I was actually worried a few weeks back when older HT items went up for sale. Things like the IM2 MKIV, MKI, older TT figures, etc.
It made me think they were selling off their own collectibles.
I should have posted my thoughts rather than just ignoring it.
But i suppose we all knew the writing was on the wall for a company who was on the slippery slope.

I noticed this too. I got my HT City Hunter from them just before Christmas and saw they had the original Jungle Hunter among others for sale. Seemed a little odd at the time that they had a bunch of pre-orders up but at the same time were asking Ebay prices for older stuff.

 

[Wulf]

Please don't put me in same bracket as MothersBasement. I'm not out to do what they do or have done.

Any business has a risk of going under, it's what you do as a business person to manage your business to best avoid that outcome, early 90's I started in this business of collectibles, I'm still here.

Takes one Johnny Bandwagon upstart who got too big too soon, with I guess bills they cannot pay...... damage the collectabke market in less than a week.

In fact, I don't know why I feel the need to defend myself!!

Sorry did not mean anything personal or against your store. We know you're not like MB. I answered your e-mail btw.

 

[Taibhse]

Read it wrong and deleted
If they still want the figures though

I think a collector is unlikely to stop wanting a figure, because a dealer went out of business.

I found this excerpt from the Bleedingcool Blog, interesting -

..We knew that large traders didn’t take any money up front but we were also aware (from personal experience) that pre-orders from these traders were often not fulfilled as they over-sold..

..which might explain the occasional strange 'Cancellation' notice I have received from Forbidden Planet (.com) about figures I was subsequently able to purchase from other suppliers.. so clearly the item had not been cancelled by the Manufacturer.

In a slightly different example - Kotobukiya ArtFX Batman (Black edition) second release.. I actually saw the figure listed as coming into stock on the FP website, then several days later go out of stock again.. but I wasn't notified by email and my pre-order was never fulfilled.. I was not particularly happy about that and cancelled the back order, as a result.

 

[Lord Turel]

Please don't put me in same bracket as MothersBasement. I'm not out to do what they do or have done.

Any business has a risk of going under, it's what you do as a business person to manage your business to best avoid that outcome, early 90's I started in this business of collectibles, I'm still here.

Takes one Johnny Bandwagon upstart who got too big too soon, with I guess bills they cannot pay...... damage the collectabke market in less than a week.

In fact, I don't know why I feel the need to defend myself!!

OSB is an amazing site and tobe fair I am glad you posted here because you do not have to defend yourself, you are one of the good guys

 

[Lord Turel]

Also Just so you all know the current money owed is recorded on the facebook group at 27,138 pounds based on figures provided (come to think of it providing the figures is what is causing this), if you have been affected please look at the FB group Mothers Basement Has My Money

 

[Collectorcol]

27k That's probably the tip. Not everyone goes on FB and there's probably people who don't want to share their misfortune. There's probably still people who have orders unaware of what's happened.
And where exactly is Liam claiming this money is?

 

[BugStomper]

^ There has been some pricy stuff from some popular licenses put up for order other the last few months and most of it wont see release for awhile yet. I imagine the price is higher than that.

 

[Taibhse]

27k That's probably the tip. Not everyone goes on FB and there's probably people who don't want to share their misfortune. There's probably still people who have orders unaware of what's happened.
And where exactly is Liam claiming this money is?

MB appear to be saying the collapse was mainly triggered by an unexpected and large multi-month refund bill from their credit card services supplier, demanded in one payment.. if that is the case, they would not be the first small company to collapse under the strain of rapid expansion hitting a cash flow bottleneck and creditors panicking.
It is always commercially bad news, not to be able to pay a banking institution, on demand.. even if the demand is unreasonable.. because it sets up a confidence Catch 22.. all commerce is about credit.. and credit is all about confidence.

If a company uses credit services from its suppliers, that credit has to be underwritten by commercial insurance.. if a question mark is raised over the financial viability of the company, then the commercial credit insurance is withdrawn.. the company is then unable to obtain credit and suffers from insufficient cash flow.. as a result, the whole thing collapses like a pack of cards.. just like Lehman Brothers in 2008.

Whether or not that is the source of MB's problems, will probably come out in the wash.

 

[Jmek]

MB appear to be saying the collapse was mainly triggered by an unexpected and large multi-month refund bill from their credit card services supplier, demanded in one payment.. if that is the case, they would not be the first small company to collapse under the strain of rapid expansion hitting a cash flow bottleneck and creditors panicking.
It is always commercially bad news, not to be able to pay a banking institution, on demand.. even if the demand is unreasonable.. because it sets up a confidence Catch 22.. all commerce is about credit.. and credit is all about confidence.

If a company uses credit services from its suppliers, that credit has to be underwritten by commercial insurance.. if a question mark is raised over the financial viability of the company, then the commercial credit insurance is withdrawn.. the company is then unable to obtain credit and suffers from insufficient cash flow.. as a result, the whole thing collapses like a pack of cards.. just like Lehman Brothers in 2008.

Whether or not that is the source of MB's problems, will probably come out in the wash.

It doesn't stack up though. According to their suppliers, Amarang, the last order they had for them was in November 2013. MB never paid for it and therefore never received the order. They were informing their customer's that they had a "huge delivery" before Christmas, which was causing the delay in getting orders posted to them. Although allegedly they hadn't actually done so. Which would mean, if true, they were taking orders for stock and supposedly in-stock items they didn't have.

 

[Jimbits76]

Please don't put me in same bracket as MothersBasement. I'm not out to do what they do or have done.

Any business has a risk of going under, it's what you do as a business person to manage your business to best avoid that outcome, early 90's I started in this business of collectibles, I'm still here.

Takes one Johnny Bandwagon upstart who got too big too soon, with I guess bills they cannot pay...... damage the collectabke market in less than a week.

In fact, I don't know why I feel the need to defend myself!!

I only wish that MB had your business model...oh and that you start selling Sideshow stuff

 

[Jimbits76]

The money situation is tough enough for all of us but I can't help but feel as a collector, there will also be the huge disappointment that you may never now get the figure.

My order was for the Sideshow Classic Spiderman which I could take or leave tbh (only ordered it due to the price doh!) but if it was something I truly cannot wait for like my HT MOS figure or the Sideshow DC Superman PF EX I would be absolutely gutted. This hobby sees inflated prices in other dealers or on ebay etc that prey on the "passionate" wants of collectors...like ticket scalping. If you don't get in early, sometimes you don't get it at all.

Of course I feel really sorry for those who have lost huge money to these people but I also feel really sorry for those who have woken up everyday like a kid at Christmas thinking 'today might be the day when it arrives'.

You almost feel as if collectors should be asking for their money back plus compensation to pay the premiums elsewhere for items they have lost a chance of owning at a decent price.

 

[V8_Club]

Guys I just realized something , the message that stated they "backed up"all the data... does it include customer card data? I don't know how their system works but did they allow direct purchases by card ? If so , and you were a customer , I highly recommend showing that message to your bank/card company and getting your card blocked / replaced.

 

[Collectorcol]

I highlighted that statement.
They couldn't get their **** together but managed to store all our details.
I only ever used PayPal...Thankfully.

 

[Frank Jaeger]

Thankfully the card i used got cancelled and i have a new one anyway so they haven't got any card details of mine that work
They have my paypal address and address, that's about it.

I'm still waiting for the letter from the bank, annoys me how it takes so long to send a letter out?!

 

[Taibhse]

It doesn't stack up though. According to their suppliers, Amarang, the last order they had for them was in November 2013. MB never paid for it and therefore never received the order. They were informing their customer's that they had a "huge delivery" before Christmas, which was causing the delay in getting orders posted to them. Although allegedly they hadn't actually done so. Which would mean, if true, they were taking orders for stock and supposedly in-stock items they didn't have.

If Amarang's statement concerning an unpaid invoice in November 2013 is correct, there is certainly a question as to why MB are claiming they did not have a problem until the January 17th demand for payment by Streamline.

Imho, an explanation should be supplied as to why there appeared to be no daily management oversight of MB's refund exposure.. surely MB should have been aware that allegedly no daily refunds had been processed by Streamline from October 2013 to January 2014 but that prior to October 2013 it was a normal daily procedure (as it is in any commercial enterprise)?

MB's claims of a failed attempt to attract venture capital would carry rather more weight, if there were details of who else was involved, apart from the MB management.. rumors of one of the venture capitalists from Dragons Den being involved are just that, rumors.. unless verifiable through an authoritative third party or the venture capital organisation concerned.

Without more information, it is extremely difficult to establish precisely what happened.. it should be remembered that if a commercial enterprise's order book is 'full' then the issue of 'insolvency' is largely a matter of cash flow and credit confidence.

Everyday in the financial news you will see Corporations' share price rise and fall on profit predictions and warnings.. Corporations routinely post losses of many millions of dollars on a quarters trading without their creditors panicking, provided there is a convincing and effective management plan for overcoming those losses commercially.

Very few companies trade on a full bank account, not even banks.. when Lehman Brothers went bust, its debts were valued at $613 billion and its assets were valued at £639 billion.. so technically that was despite having $26 billion more assets than debts, although accurate valuations in those circumstances are difficult.. and (lack of) confidence in those valuations was largely the cause of LB imploding.
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/lehman-folds-with-record-613-billion-debt?siteid=rss


However the advice on the BleedingCool Blog is sound, the first and best place to try to obtain a refund is through the method of payment.. Unfortunately going direct to a commercial enterprise that has gone bust, simply puts a customer in a long queue, often behind 'priority' creditors.. ie. Financial institutions and Commercial suppliers.

 

[Jimbits76]

MB allowed direct payment but it went through another company; World Pay.

I'm not sure how that works with regards to sensitive CC information.

 

[Taibhse]

MB allowed direct payment but it went through another company; World Pay.

I'm not sure how that works with regards to sensitive CC information.

WorldPay is a major European credit card transaction, services company.. simply put, they provide businesses with the ability to accept credit cards.. this should not affect the standard consumer protection provided by your own credit card company.. and WorldPay would be subject to EU regs on data protection.. specifically the Payment Card Industry Data Security Standard (PCI DSS).

 

[Collectorcol]

WorldPay is a major European credit card transaction, services company.. simply put, they provide businesses with the ability to accept credit cards.. this should not affect the standard consumer protection provided by your own credit card company.. and WorldPay would be subject to EU regs on data protection

I think that was in relation to MB keeping details.
Would MB have access to this information or do WorldPal withhold it like PayPal?

*Got the 'Data protection' bit.

 

[Taibhse]

WorldPay (Streamline is one of their 'brand' names) should keep information confidential, since that is the way secure payment services operate.. but I never ordered anything from Mother's Basement, so I am not familiar with their ordering procedure.. in other words, if MB had access to any of that information prior to it being processed by WorldPay.


Edit - I think MB's comments about customer details were more to do with shipping names and addresses.. specifically with reference to threats against management and their families, posted via the interwebz.
Folks should remember that no matter how p***ed off you are about a financial loss, the interwebz does not guarantee anonymity *waves at the NSA and GCHQ*.. therefore threats made against peeps on the interwebz, are likely to get you into a whole world of legal pain you can probably do without.. likewise libel law applies to anything typed on the interwebz, as much as any other print media.

 

[Frank Jaeger]

I just logged details with Staffordshire Police, Insolvency Service and Action Fraud UK