What's the point of Marriage?

[carbo-fation]

Interesting thread.

 

[TOE]

Technically speaking, getting married is a contract. More to point, it's a fiduciary relationship.

I mean, outside of the semantics, just look at it in application. If you get divorced, the state can tell you how much you have to pay in child support and how often you can see your kids. They could not legally do this unless the act of a legal marriage binding you , your potential spouse and the state into a legal relationship.

As for who marriage penalizes? Well there is nothing wrong with marriage. But there is a hell of a lot wrong with divorce. The rate of divorce in the US is around 65 percent. The most troubling issue seems to be the more your income, the more likely you are to get divorced relative to having less earning power. But that's again, something you can see from simple observation, two people married in poverty need each other to keep surviving, even if they hate each other. People who are married and flush can better withstand a divorce ( better I said, not ideal) and it's more of a digestible option.

Divorce does not penalize men nor women. Family Court in the US does not penalize specifically men nor women.

However, the higher earning spouse be it a man or a woman is almost always run through the financial wringer

The state gets a federal kickback for every child support dollar paid. So look at it in application. The state could make the higher earning spouse pay gobs of child support and alimony, even to the point of absurdity, essentially making that divorcee a surrogate social welfare system AND make a profit. Or the state could give that higher earning spouse a pass and possibly put the other party on welfare and on the government tit. Make a profit or put more financial pressure on existing social services and welfare. Here's the truth about child support, it is based on "inputted" income. What you could earn, not what you do earn. If your industry collapses on you, you might still be on the hook for what you do earn. The intent of this was to prevent a doctor from leaving his practice and working at Arbys until his kids were 18, but the actual effect is many people are locked into their careers under threat of removal of licenses and other privileges and if you can't pay your child support long enough for whatever reason, you go to jail. Debtors prison is not legal in American EXCEPT for the failure to maintain and pay child support based on inputted income.

Socially speaking, women usually desire to and often do date and mate and marry up on the socioeconomic ladder, not down.

Argue this if you like, but ask yourself this, right here, right now, how many male janitors do you know are getting blowjobs by female supermodel CEOs?

Most men don't care what a woman does for a living as long as shes physically attractive and treats him well. Society does not penalize or stigmatize a male doctor from marrying a female waitress as long as shes pretty and nice. Reverse it, do you think a female attorney is going to marry a male janitor without social blowback from her friends and family and coworkers?

In effect, in real application, divorce is financially brutal to the higher earning spouse. Typically the higher earning spouse is the male. Not always, but a hell of a lot of the time. That's not propaganda, that's a reality of mate selection. In some cases, a female spouse might be outearning her male spouse, but the key is what were they earning when they first met? And brutal as it sounds, how attractive is the female to most men? ( Attractive women have more men pursuing them, they have a greater range of choice amongst higher earning men. Women who men find unattractive? Doesn't matter what her career is, men aren't turned on by a woman's job, he is turned on when she is hot. Again, not personal to anyone, just a reality of mate selection in real application.)

Neither marriage nor divorce happen in a vacuum. Actual mate selection and how people actually behave makes a difference in how one might be "penalized", be it emotionally, legally or financially.

Most American women don't oppose marriage because typically there are no disincentives in place to not get married.

You are more likely to find an American man opposed to marriage because there exist very few incentives in place to actually get married.

GG

I agree with you.

 

[The Josh]

I hope to get married someday. Its worked out for my folks who've been married for 28 years. I'm fine with people not wanting to get married and live that way. What I find annoying is when those people tear down marriage, having kids, etc.

 

[gdb]

Well according to the great philosopher Tom Leykis, there is no reason for a man to get married in today's society. And with the chances of a married couple getting divorced at just over 50% it really seems to be a fool's game. I can see why people who make money off the marriage industry want to promote it -- and why people who make money off the divorce industry -- and since misery loves company, I can see why the married want to promote it. But if a couple needs a legal contract from the state to prove something, how solid is their union in the first place?


Old joke: why does divorce cost so much? Because it's worth it!

 

[Bodie The Cursed]

Wife and kids will come in handy when Im old and dying.. LOL

 

[Jen]

When I was younger - I really wanted to get married. My parents (whom are still married) had a rather loveless relationship - and married for all the wrong reasons, though now they have become eachother's best friends. I never wanted a marriage like that - but because of the fact that I was not raised around a loving and nurturing realtionship, it was something that I wanted more than anything. I still want a loving and nurturing relationship. I'm not one of those who looks to be with someone to improve my economic standing - my only financial requirement for my partner is that he can support himself - not us - because I would never feel right not pulling my own weight - but that at least he can support himself. I don't need a fancy house or car or anything materialistic to make me happy - I wanted the real deal - true love - a best friend and lover, someone I could see myself sharing my life with, someone I feel that during those tough times, I would be willing and wanting to work it out because I know that it's worth it. Is that a fairytale and unrealistic, I don't know, but it's what I'm shooting for. I don't need to get married but I won't lie, for me I think it could make me feel more secure in the relationship - knowing that my partner is willing to take that step with me and me with him. I don't take marriage lightly and if I ever was to take that step it would be with someone I was with for a long time. I wouldn't do it for legal reasons or social reasons, but in my eyes it has just meant that this is the person I've chosen to spend the rest of my life with and by making that commitment that no matter what happens (sickness, job loss etc..) I will stand by them and not flee with things get tough. Now if I am truly in love with whomever I'm with, I would stand by them, marriage or not.....but like I said before I suppose it offers a sense of security that we are both in this (hopefully) for the long haul through good and bad. Of course I also know that it could still end in divorce, and in that case, I think we are both entitled to whatever we brought into the marriage (money and material wise). I would never try to take a guy for all he's worth - or feel right making him support me - I can support myself and I don't need a man to take care of me financially. I want someone who wants to live life with me and love me, someone who will make my day brighter and make me want to be a better person. Money has absolutely NOTHING to do with it.

 

[Darth Cruel]

I won't presume to speak for anybody but me.

I believe in the family structure. I believe it is the best situation for perpetuating the species. It is an excellent avenue for teaching the skills that make societies better places to be, to children. And it is an awesome experience to walk into a house, at the end of a long day, to a person who is more than just a buddy, or a partner, or a canfidante. A person who is honestly your other half. I person who you CAN"T feel complete without. And to the children who may not be a person's ONLY reason for living (if I had no kids nor wife, my Sideshow figures would still be enough to live for), but what an awesome reason I find them to be themselves. When my children look up at me, I see a trust and a confidence in me that I see from no other person on Earth. And making sure that they are safe, healthy, and happy is such a pleasure to me that I am addicted to it as if it were crack (but a crack that is all good). And i don't think they would trust that they can depend on me to be there for them if we were not living in a family situation.

And marriage serves as the promise between me and my wife that we will be there for each other forever. No matter what.

 

[pixletwin]

When I was younger - I really wanted to get married. My parents (whom are still married) had a rather loveless relationship - and married for all the wrong reasons, though now they have become each other's best friends. I never wanted a marriage like that - but because of the fact that I was not raised around a loving and nurturing relationship, it was something that I wanted more than anything.

I still want a loving and nurturing relationship. I'm not one of those who looks to be with someone to improve my economic standing - my only financial requirement for my partner is that he can support himself - not us - because I would never feel right not pulling my own weight - but that at least he can support himself. I don't need a fancy house or car or anything materialistic to make me happy - I wanted the real deal - true love - a best friend and lover, someone I could see myself sharing my life with, someone I feel that during those tough times, I would be willing and wanting to work it out because I know that it's worth it. Is that a fairytale and unrealistic, I don't know, but it's what I'm shooting for.

I don't need to get married but I won't lie, for me I think it could make me feel more secure in the relationship - knowing that my partner is willing to take that step with me and me with him. I don't take marriage lightly and if I ever was to take that step it would be with someone I was with for a long time. I wouldn't do it for legal reasons or social reasons, but in my eyes it has just meant that this is the person I've chosen to spend the rest of my life with and by making that commitment that no matter what happens (sickness, job loss etc..) I will stand by them and not flee with things get tough. Now if I am truly in love with whomever I'm with, I would stand by them, marriage or not.....but like I said before I suppose it offers a sense of security that we are both in this (hopefully) for the long haul through good and bad.

Of course I also know that it could still end in divorce, and in that case, I think we are both entitled to whatever we brought into the marriage (money and material wise). I would never try to take a guy for all he's worth - or feel right making him support me - I can support myself and I don't need a man to take care of me financially.

I want someone who wants to live life with me and love me, someone who will make my day brighter and make me want to be a better person. Money has absolutely NOTHING to do with it.

Ok. Now I can read it.

 

[Jen]

Ok. Now I can read it.

Not only are you the High Priest of the Kurgan Krusade, Mod and Time Lord, you can now add editor to your list.

I tend to ramble....as my post (before your kind edit) clearly proves.

 

[pixletwin]

With Faramir gone I feel the burden press upon my brow.

 

[Jen]

With Faramir gone I feel the burden press upon my brow.

Oh Merciful Whilickers!!!!!

 

[DarkDaysinVegas]

Yes......You rang?

Whats up Jen and Mark?

Rory...nice thread bro!

 

[pixletwin]

What font is that? I couldn't figure out what it was he used.

 

[pixletwin]

YO Will.

 

[DarkDaysinVegas]

Mark this one's for you bro!

And...Thanks for the Brandon Flowers autograph in advance!

 

[pixletwin]

I am working on it.

 

[creecher]

Things must be great in the States, over here, you shack up with someone for 6 weeks and they have a legal right to half your stuff. Probably only half of whatever came into the partnership in the last six weeks, but whatever, you'll end up poorer working it out 'legally'. That goes for living under the same roof for six weeks, whether you are in a relationship or not.

Unless things have changed prenups aren't legally binding documents, and can easily be argued away 'legally'. Just another document to make you feel better about the relationship, just like a marriage certificate. Just as good as saying 'I will', when, as circumstances change you may decide 'I wont'. Couple are all happy until the other one decides they aren't anymore, and the happy one is left to wonder what the hell happened.

 

[hairlesswookiee]

skipping through most of the pages i'm gonna say that i can understand most of your opinions. i almost feel the same way...mostly because i was in recent relationship of 7 years that ended abruptly because we couldn't get our stuff together and agree on future plans. i think marriage is important--as long as both people are willing to make the commitment and go the extra mile to make the relationship work. i hope that i can find someone to make me want to spend the rest of my life with and that we'll both enjoy healthy lifestyles/careers/hobbies....until then, i'm just gonna do my thing and not really worry about what other people think/say

 

[El Roranous]

Man, some awesome posts in this thread!


Thank you guys and keep them coming if you have something to say. I especially liked Darth Cruel's, Jen's, and Creecher's post. Awesome stuff! Different perspectives.

 

[wofford29]

I think I understand the real truth behind this thread now.