Oldest advertising adage: sex and death sell
Which Film Owned 2019?
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Oldest advertising adage: sex and death sell
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I gave it to Endgame.
The film has its weaknesses and a lot of its strengths come from being a culmination of something much larger than itself; I do think they stuck the landing in spite of some notable problems. I don't think time will be that kind to it, and this coming from someone who thoroughly enjoyed it. It was an event the likes of which we're not likely to see again. I give it credit for that.
Joker has one iconic scene that absolutely kills (see what I did there?) ... but the rest of it? I definitely have no urge to watch it again. I've seen Phoenix play a variation on that character 3 times over now to varying degrees, and it contributes nothing. It reflects bleakness without actually *saying* anything new or interesting. It's hollow. It's like a post-modern caricature of nihilism. Quite well done, as far as caricatures go, but there's not much there beyond misery-porn.
But neither of these films grabbed me the way, say ... JoJo Rabbit or Once Upon A Time In Hollywood did; both for very different reasons.
The film has its weaknesses and a lot of its strengths come from being a culmination of something much larger than itself; I do think they stuck the landing in spite of some notable problems. I don't think time will be that kind to it, and this coming from someone who thoroughly enjoyed it. It was an event the likes of which we're not likely to see again. I give it credit for that.
Joker has one iconic scene that absolutely kills (see what I did there?) ... but the rest of it? I definitely have no urge to watch it again. I've seen Phoenix play a variation on that character 3 times over now to varying degrees, and it contributes nothing. It reflects bleakness without actually *saying* anything new or interesting. It's hollow. It's like a post-modern caricature of nihilism. Quite well done, as far as caricatures go, but there's not much there beyond misery-porn.
But neither of these films grabbed me the way, say ... JoJo Rabbit or Once Upon A Time In Hollywood did; both for very different reasons.
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Just saw this reading back through the thread. You and I are on the same page.
I'll give you that 'Joker' is a well-crafted film, but as I've said I don't think it says much. The discussions in the media regarding mental health, marginalization etc. have been going on for quite a while now so I wouldn't call Joker a catalyst. I'll have to respectfully disagree.
Very astute. It was true in decades past, but especially now in contemporary culture, where everything has been accelerated to a ridiculous degree and subsequently gets de-contextualized and meme-ified on the Web.
If we're talking about which *character* is more compelling across all media, I'd agree. But I think what RDJ accomplished with that B-list character remains astonishing and far more fun to watch than Joaquin Bleakness being sad.
Joker is bigger than one portrayal... whereas, Iron Man is not.
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Yeah after reading the above messages, I?m sticking with endgame my vote.
People seem to associate real art with cynicism these days. But the truth is, a depressing story about mental health and massacre doesn?t make it better, doesn?t make it more artistic, it doesn?t elevate it, in my mind.
I just did not find joker inspiring at all in any way. If you did, then great.
For me Endgame is the superior film in so many ways despite being pop-culture, Certainly not because it is part of pop culture. And just because joker takes a character from pop-culture and makes a film that seemingly isn’t pop-culture in nature doesn’t make it brilliant, doesn’t make it art, doesn’t make it better.
Endgame is about so many things that are worth talking about, and for those who didn’t notice that maybe you weren’t paying attention... making sacrifices for those you love, doing the right thing, and the difference between doing the right thing For the wrong reason and the wrong thing For the right reason. Such notions of love, honor, and doing the right thing may not be trendy these days, and may be scoffed at by the self important cynics… but is no less important than it?s ever been.
The characters in Endgame aren?t perfect, they tend to be narcissistic and sometimes right down shallow, but they grow beyond this and strive toward things that are worth idealizing. Hopefully that is relatable too, and not just joker’s themes of mental illness and homicide.
I just can?t get worked up about a man going insane and killing people, I?m not willing to put that on a pedestal.
Given all the horror that is happening already in the world, we don?t need the joker to put a spotlight on mental illness.
The people that are going to talk about it are already talking about it, and the people that are going to do something about it are already doing something about it. I don?t see this as a film that is going to change one single thing. I do not find it inspiring or motivating on any positive level, if someone else does then great ? use it and do something good in the world.
People seem to associate real art with cynicism these days. But the truth is, a depressing story about mental health and massacre doesn?t make it better, doesn?t make it more artistic, it doesn?t elevate it, in my mind.
I just did not find joker inspiring at all in any way. If you did, then great.
For me Endgame is the superior film in so many ways despite being pop-culture, Certainly not because it is part of pop culture. And just because joker takes a character from pop-culture and makes a film that seemingly isn’t pop-culture in nature doesn’t make it brilliant, doesn’t make it art, doesn’t make it better.
Endgame is about so many things that are worth talking about, and for those who didn’t notice that maybe you weren’t paying attention... making sacrifices for those you love, doing the right thing, and the difference between doing the right thing For the wrong reason and the wrong thing For the right reason. Such notions of love, honor, and doing the right thing may not be trendy these days, and may be scoffed at by the self important cynics… but is no less important than it?s ever been.
The characters in Endgame aren?t perfect, they tend to be narcissistic and sometimes right down shallow, but they grow beyond this and strive toward things that are worth idealizing. Hopefully that is relatable too, and not just joker’s themes of mental illness and homicide.
I just can?t get worked up about a man going insane and killing people, I?m not willing to put that on a pedestal.
Given all the horror that is happening already in the world, we don?t need the joker to put a spotlight on mental illness.
The people that are going to talk about it are already talking about it, and the people that are going to do something about it are already doing something about it. I don?t see this as a film that is going to change one single thing. I do not find it inspiring or motivating on any positive level, if someone else does then great ? use it and do something good in the world.
The Clown Prince of Crime
Super Freak
The Clown Prince of Crime
Super Freak
It's too bad we can't go 5 or 10 years into the future like Dr Strange to see which film has more staying power.
Endgame has the advantage of being the biggest film ever, so that gives it a place in history until a new film takes it. On the other hand, there will be more MCU films, which tends to make the films feel disposable. I think EG will be overshadowed by other MCU films. It has to, because that's their business model. If Joker can win a few Oscars, along with the character recognition, and box office successes, it might be remembered more. It might be a Wizard of Oz/ Gone With the Wind situation.
It already is -- by Infinity War.
In a year, ask your kid which they'd rather watch: IW or EG. I'm betting on IW.
The Clown Prince of Crime
Super Freak
I don't have children, but I saw it recently, and while I still think it's a good "ending", and one of the best MCU films, I prefer IW because of the iconography, pace, and story.
And yet, they made the wrong choice.
No bias there.
I didn’t know we were depending on the refined taste of children.
Maybe we should ask them if they would rather watch endgame or joker. 
Since we already know there are bloodthirsty kids packing heat in schools, it could still go either way.
Neal136
MCU Whore
If I ask children which they'd rather watch, it's probably going to be Endgame. Adult children (like all of us) might trend more towards Infinity War.
All the nieces and nephews and godchildren I have, ALL like Infinity War better. They almost all agree Endgame was corny. They range in age from 15-19. But hey, this is Los Angeles.
Are you guys bringing up Infinity War because if it was Infinity War VS Joker you might have voted for Infinity War?
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