Which Film Owned 2019?

[Wor-Gar]

Are you guys bringing up Infinity War because if it was Infinity War VS Joker you might have voted for Infinity War?

Not for me, I just mentioned that for me IW was the end of the Modern Marvel movie era. Endgame was the finale of the two-parter, but it never got any better than IW for me.

 

[rushmore223]

The movie that will own 2020?

Dr. Dolittle.

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[The Buffinator]

The Dark Knight was a great film too. Joker is snooze-worthy.

While I wouldn't call it snooze-worthy, I finally got around to watching Joker last night and I must say I was somewhat disappointed. While I enjoyed JP's performance, a lot of things that I suspect were intended to surprise seemed either telegraphed or obvious. For instance, from the get-go I knew his relationship with Zazie Beetz's character was all in his mind, as was his little dance during the riot after he was pulled from the police car (either that or he magically removed his handcuffs). Also, IMO his descent into violence seemed almost by-the-numbers: Gets bullied/beaten up; Gets a gun; Loses job because of gun; Gets bullied again, only this time has gun and kills bullies. Yawn. And who didn't know he was going to kill his clown "friend" (the one who gave him the gun)? I also didn't care for the Thomas Wayne portrayal as a cold, heartless one-percenter, although I suppose that could have been all in Arthur's mind as well. Regardless, I also found the casting choice rather odd, as someone that age (@64) seemed too old given Bruce was so young. And the murder of Thomas & Martha seemed so out-of-place it was jarring, as if the director was told to add it at the last minute JIC they want to bring Arthur back for future films.

I did get a "The Usual Suspects" vibe while watching it, and I've since read a few articles that contend that based on the last scene with his new(?) therapist, the entire movie may have been a figment of Arthur's imagination. Apparently the director isn't saying, but if that's the case I think I caught an Easter egg that may be a subtle clue: When he's chased onto the subway train by the two detectives, after he's aboard I could have sworn the announcement said "Next stop, Bedford Falls", which references another movie where much of what takes place is in an imaginary world. If I heard that right, kudos to Mr. Phillips.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

I suspect were intended to surprise seemed either telegraphed or obvious. For instance, from the get-go I knew his relationship with Zazie Beetz's character was all in his mind

I wasn't expecting that twist. I thought it was bad writing when the lady was interested in Arthur, so I was glad it was a fantasy.

as was his little dance during the riot after he was pulled from the police car (either that or he magically removed his handcuffs

I don't buy that you noticed the lack of handcuffs and associated it with a fantasy. Someone has been reading the Joker movie thread.

I also found the casting choice rather odd, as someone that age (@64) seemed too old given Bruce was so young.

Have you seen Trump? He's 73 and has a child the same age as Bruce. A powerful man having a kid at an old age is the least unrealistic thing about the film.

And the murder of Thomas & Martha seemed so out-of-place it was jarring, as if the director was told to add it at the last minute JIC they want to bring Arthur back for future films.

I don't have a problem with the scene....but, I find it a bit unbelievable that someone of Thomas Wayne status and personality (in this movie)would go into an empty alley during a riot and not have some kind of security or private transportation. In previous movies and stories the Wayne family were depicted as rich and powerful, but anonymous enough to use public transportation (Batman begins) or walk the streets (batman 89) like any other family. I can't imagine Donald Trump before he was president walking around NY city, and this Thomas Wayne was clearly modeled after Trump.

I could have sworn the announcement said "Next stop, Bedford Falls", which references another movie where much of what takes place is in an imaginary world.

Interesting. I've watched the scene several times, and it does sound like "Bedford Falls."

 

[ironwez20]

I feel like everybody hyped up the joker as this great movie that when you watch it at home your just like ? that?s it?

When it first came out nobody really knew it?s be that good and it took everyone by surprise at the movie theater. For me anyway.

I think people are expecting a full on joker in the movie but it?s more of him transforming slowly . If they make a sequel we will see how he acts as joker

 

[SvenDokki]

Please no sequel. One was bad enough!

 

[The Buffinator]

I wasn't expecting that twist. I thought it was bad writing when the lady was interested in Arthur, so I was glad it was a fantasy.
I don't buy that you noticed the lack of handcuffs and associated it with a fantasy. Someone has been reading the Joker movie thread.

The lack of development with respect to their relationship was suspicious to me, to the extent that I wondered if she & her daughter existed it all or were just his idealized versions of the woman & child on the bus. Given her job at that bank, it also seemed she could afford to live somewhere else (i.e., where someone like Arthur wouldn't be her neighbor ).
Once Arthur had his first fantasy visit to Murray's TV show, I was wondering if the line between reality and fantasy would be blurred in more scenes going forward. But I only realized that part of the riot scene was fantasy because I was expecting to see someone either unlock or cut off his cuffs, but no one did!

How the story is told (and looking for further clues on the fantasy vs. reality split) more so than the story itself is what will get me to rewatch the movie.

Have you seen Trump? He's 73 and has a child the same age as Bruce. A powerful man having a kid at an old age is the least unrealistic thing about the film.

I agree it's not unrealistic, but his age coupled with his characterization (being completely unlikable) were completely at odds with how he's been previously portrayed. I'm all for subverting convention, but not to the point where you think Bruce is better off being an orphan.

I don't have a problem with the scene....but, I find it a bit unbelievable that someone of Thomas Wayne status and personality (in this movie)would go into an empty alley during a riot and not have some kind of security or private transportation. In previous movies and stories the Wayne family were depicted as rich and powerful, but anonymous enough to use public transportation (Batman begins) or walk the streets (batman 89) like any other family. I can't imagine Donald Trump before he was president walking around NY city, and this Thomas Wayne was clearly modeled after Trump.

Agreed, especially someone who was running for mayor and had gone on TV and called the lower classes animals or something to that effect (I don't recall the specific term). He would have been aware of the violence & unrest and known that was no time for he & his family to take in an evening movie. Heck, that was after he was approached by Arthur in that bathroom scene - surely a man in his position would have beefed up security at that point.

 

[ironwez20]

Please no sequel. One was bad enough!

Nah movie was def not bad . Tros was bad.

 

[SvenDokki]

Nah movie was def not bad . Tros was bad.

No argument there.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

The lack of development with respect to their relationship was suspicious to me, to the extent that I wondered if she & her daughter existed it all or were just his idealized versions of the woman & child on the bus. Given her job at that bank, it also seemed she could afford to live somewhere else (i.e., where someone like Arthur wouldn't be her neighbor ).
Once Arthur had his first fantasy visit to Murray's TV show, I was wondering if the line between reality and fantasy would be blurred in more scenes going forward. But I only realized that part of the riot scene was fantasy because I was expecting to see someone either unlock or cut off his cuffs, but no one did!

How the story is told (and looking for further clues on the fantasy vs. reality split) more so than the story itself is what will get me to rewatch the movie.



I agree it's not unrealistic, but his age coupled with his characterization (being completely unlikable) were completely at odds with how he's been previously portrayed. I'm all for subverting convention, but not to the point where you think Bruce is better off being an orphan.




Agreed, especially someone who was running for mayor and had gone on TV and called the lower classes animals or something to that effect (I don't recall the specific term). He would have been aware of the violence & unrest and known that was no time for he & his family to take in an evening movie. Heck, that was after he was approached by Arthur in that bathroom scene - surely a man in his position would have beefed up security at that point.

He called them clowns. The irony.

Anyway, I could see someone like that maybe having such a big ego not feel like they need protection...or maybe he's just out of touch with the real world, kind of like when Arthur asked Murray, "Have you seen what is out there? Do you ever leave this studio, Murray?" So maybe TW is overconfident or completely out of touch? I don't know.

 

[The Buffinator]

He called them clowns. The irony.

Anyway, I could see someone like that maybe having such a big ego not feel like they need protection...or maybe he's just out of touch with the real world, kind of like when Arthur asked Murray, "Have you seen what is out there? Do you ever leave this studio, Murray?" So maybe TW is overconfident or completely out of touch? I don't know.

He called them clowns? Maybe I confused that with what he called the murderer of the 3 Wall Street guys. Wasn't that a separate interview/TV appearance?

I considered that his ego was the reason, but I guess it would have worked much better for me if he was someone other than Thomas Wayne. If he was Ronald Frump, I'd have wholeheartedly embraced that scene. I guess I just didn't see the need for the Wayne family to play a significant role in the movie, especially with it supposedly being a one-off that isn't connected to the larger DCEU (if that still exists).

I must say, the more I discuss & think about Joker, the more I'm warming to it. I'm still not quite sure if I like that Phillips has left the whole reality/fantasy question unanswered. On the one hand I guess it's kind of cool the distinction is left to our individual interpretations, but I can't help wonder if maybe he did that because it was too difficult to pull off convincingly? I mean, the movie doesn't have a Verbal Kint sitting in front of a bulletin board filled with material, so including the clues necessary for us to distinguish the real vs. imagined would be a bigger challenge. IDK, maybe they're all there and I just didn't pick up on all of them during my first viewing? Should I go visit the Joker thread now and do some catch-up reading? I probably should just to spare others from my musings here.

 

[Remembermyname]

There's not too many of those years though -- where a single film like Titanic so dominantly overwhelms the year.

Jaws 1975
Star Wars 1977
E.T. 1982
Batman 1989
Jurassic Park - 1993 (despite Schindler's List, the dinos seemed to be everywhere that year)
Titanic 1997
Avatar - whenever it was, 2009?

There might be another two to three I'm missing depending how far back you want to go, but that's about it.

One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest 1976. Stood outside the Cinema, could not decide whether to see this or Death Wish....saw both.

 

[ironwez20]

The movie that will own 2020?

Dr. Dolittle.

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I got news for ya about 2020 buddy….