Were there ever any Tim Burton Two Face concept sketches...

[EdwardNashton1]

Yup. She wore it during the motorcycle shots and during the initial shots

but it was quickly abandoned when she complained that the other actors were easily seen and she was mostly hidden by the cowl. They got rid of it except in the motorcycle shots but apparently even that cowl was opened up at the eyes so you could still tell it was her.

she probably screwed up alot of the elements in the film. It really wasn't all Schumacher's fault it turned out the way it did. Heck, he wanted Batman Forever to be darker but the people who got rid of Burton wanted a "kid friendly movie". Which is probably why we saw things like the Bat credit card

Though it's not from Batman Returns or of Billy Dee... i always thought this original make-up test from Batman Forever would have been tons better than the final concept used in the movie.

This would have been a smoother transition and more Burton-esque.

I'm pretty sure they did use that...

 

[Silent December]

Was it always Wayans as Robin? I could have SWORN it was Will Smith that was offered the Robin role...

 

[Silent December]

Robin Williams may get his chance to play Riddler. Been reading articles where he talks about how he has been screwed out of parts in the Batman franchise twice. And now he is basically begging Nolan to include him in the next Batman film somehow...

As far as Billy Dee goes. I honestly think he would've done a great job as Two-Face. Cant be much worse than what Tommy Lee did. Tommy Lee's Two-Face talked to much for my taste. He joked, laughed & was tooo playful; reminded me of the Joker...Two-Face has always been known as the more laid-back, mysterious & quieter Batman villian. He basically lets his actions speak for his words & can be totally unpredictable! I would've been game for Billy Dee to take on the role.

I think he's just too old at this point and to be honest I think he'd play the character just like TLJ played Two-face - loud, obnoxious and over the top. I read somewhere that Nolan wants joseph gordon-levitt to play Riddler after working with him on Inception. A bit off topic, but it makes me laugh a little when I see the trailer for that movie with haol the BB/TDK cast in it

 

[AStar]

Robin Williams may get his chance to play Riddler. Been reading articles where he talks about how he has been screwed out of parts in the Batman franchise twice. And now he is basically begging Nolan to include him in the next Batman film somehow...

As far as Billy Dee goes. I honestly think he would've done a great job as Two-Face. Cant be much worse than what Tommy Lee did. Tommy Lee's Two-Face talked to much for my taste. He joked, laughed & was tooo playful; reminded me of the Joker...Two-Face has always been known as the more laid-back, mysterious & quieter Batman villian. He basically lets his actions speak for themselves & can be totally unpredictable! I would've been game for Billy Dee to take on the role.

*EDIT: On another note, after going back & reading the thread & some of the articles as to why Wayans & Billy Dee didnt fulfill their duties in the Batman franchise. It seems maybe they were singled out simply because of their ethnic background & not about how well they would've played the part. Maybe Schumacher didnt think a African-American Robin & Two-Face would set well with long time fans. Kinda makes you wonder what the REAL purpose of letting them go was. Not accusing anyone, just my personal assumptions...

No need for debate. #justsayin

I think its time for some diversity up in the Batman franchise. Where are all the Asian, Latino, Indian & African-American villians & heroes at!?

 

[William Shatners Toupee]

I just read an interview with Billy Dee the other day while Googling where he says he was always only contracted for just the first Batman movie so that's interesting to know, (where-as with Star Wars he was contracted for two straight-out), so there was never any firm talk to him from Burton about plans.

 

[cokebabies]

but it was quickly abandoned when she complained that the other actors were easily seen and she was mostly hidden by the cowl. They got rid of it except in the motorcycle shots but apparently even that cowl was opened up at the eyes so you could still tell it was her.

It's a good thing she fought for more facial exposure. Otherwise she wouldn't have the amazing career she enjoys to this day.

 

[haytil]

*EDIT: On another note, after going back & reading the thread & some of the articles as to why Wayans & Billy Dee didnt fulfill their duties in the Batman franchise. It seems maybe they were singled out simply because of their ethnic background & not about how well they would've played the part. Maybe Schumacher didnt think a African-American Robin & Two-Face would set well with long time fans. Kinda makes you wonder what the REAL purpose of letting them go was. Not accusing anyone, just my personal assumptions...

Dude, there's absolutely no evidence of that whatsoever.

It's far more likely that Schumacher simply wanted to decide for himself who was to play what, and not take on baggage from Burton's run on the series or allow a previous director's decisions (or merely desires, as in Wayans' case) to affect the casting of major characters. The only holdovers were Alfred and the very minor part of Commissioner Gordon.

I think its time for some diversity up in the Batman franchise. Where are all the Asian, Latino, Indian & African-American villians & heroes at!?

Ra's al Ghul, Bane, Renee Montoya, Crispus Allen, Commissioner Grogan, Killer Croc, Lady Shiva, and Kyodai Ken are all Batman villains and heroes that immediately spring to mind as being minorities.

I just read an interview with Billy Dee the other day while Googling where he says he was always only contracted for just the first Batman movie so that's interesting to know, (where-as with Star Wars he was contracted for two straight-out), so there was never any firm talk to him from Burton about plans.

There must have been some intent from Burton to use Billy Dee Williams as Two-Face later on. Otherwise, why spend the extra money to hire an actor with some element of public recognition for what turned out to be a very minor part in that film? It seems like it was a setup for later use, since Harvey Dent's role was so small.

 

[Seditionary]

Dude, there's absolutely no evidence of that whatsoever.

It's far more likely that Schumacher simply wanted to decide for himself who was to play what, and not take on baggage from Burton's run on the series or allow a previous director's decisions (or merely desires, as in Wayans' case) to affect the casting of major characters. The only holdovers were Alfred and the very minor part of Commissioner Gordon.

Schumacher traded everything in for a stronger homosexual tone. (minorities included)

 

[aussieinnyc]

Schumacher traded everything in for a stronger homosexual tone. (minorities included)

No, Schumacher's approach was more in line with the 60's TV show - ie high camp factor (and things can be camp without being homosexual). Sure there are homoerotic elements in his two Batman films - Robin's codpiece for example is about the size of a small African nation - but there are gay undertones - intentional or not - in the source materials as well.

Way too much is made over Schumacher being gay therefore his Batman movies must be gay - as a gay guy I'm constantly confused why people point to nipples on a Batsuit = gay. From a design perspective Batman Forever looks fantastic (nipples aside) and unfortunately he let himself be pushed by the studio into amplifying everything - design choices/camp factor/villains/etc even further for Batman and Robin. But as a modern version of the 60's TV show, Batman Forever was actually a really fun film - full of plot holes and incredulities that you ignore because that's part of what you get with that genre (and hey, I'll freely admit Chris O'Donnell in his Robin suit was very much appreciated here!)

 

[EdwardNashton1]

No, Schumacher's approach was more in line with the 60's TV show - ie high camp factor (and things can be camp without being homosexual). Sure there are homoerotic elements in his two Batman films - Robin's codpiece for example is about the size of a small African nation - but there are gay undertones - intentional or not - in the source materials as well.

Way too much is made over Schumacher being gay therefore his Batman movies must be gay - as a gay guy I'm constantly confused why people point to nipples on a Batsuit = gay. From a design perspective Batman Forever looks fantastic (nipples aside) and unfortunately he let himself be pushed by the studio into amplifying everything - design choices/camp factor/villains/etc even further for Batman and Robin. But as a modern version of the 60's TV show, Batman Forever was actually a really fun film - full of plot holes and incredulities that you ignore because that's part of what you get with that genre (and hey, I'll freely admit Chris O'Donnell in his Robin suit was very much appreciated here!)

I agree man, everyone hates on Schumacher, it wasn't all his fault.

 

[William Shatners Toupee]

I agree man, everyone hates on Schumacher, it wasn't all his fault.

If Burton were allowed to keep his freedom he wouldn't have left. Execs have their fingers in everything (pun intended).

 

[AStar]

Dude, there's absolutely no evidence of that whatsoever.

It's far more likely that Schumacher simply wanted to decide for himself who was to play what, and not take on baggage from Burton's run on the series or allow a previous director's decisions (or merely desires, as in Wayans' case) to affect the casting of major characters. The only holdovers were Alfred and the very minor part of Commissioner Gordon.


Ra's al Ghul, Bane, Renee Montoya, Crispus Allen, Commissioner Grogan, Killer Croc, Lady Shiva, and Kyodai Ken are all Batman villains and heroes that immediately spring to mind as being minorities.

I never said their was actual "evidence" of that. Re-read, I said my own personal assumptions. I and still stand by those assumptions. I agree, maybe he did want to decide for himself who he felt should play the part. But there was plenty of big name minority actors that he could've easily gotten to replace the minority actors, that were already set to play said parts. But anyways, whats done is done...

And I wasnt talking about in the Batman universe, I was talking about the actual Batman films themselves.

 

[AStar]

I agree man, everyone hates on Schumacher, it wasn't all his fault.

Thought you guys might find these interesting (for those who haven't seen it)

Special "making of featurette". Was featured on the Batman:The Anthology DVD set. Schumacher & casts of Batman Forever & Batman & Robin reflects on the films. They talk about Schumacher taking over along with his visions & concepts for his two directed Batman films. He also talks about why they weren't well received...

Making of Batman Forever
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=haARToOY84Y

Making of Batman & Robin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HeGHP-7DBNw

 

[The Mike]

she probably screwed up alot of the elements in the film. It really wasn't all Schumacher's fault it turned out the way it did. Heck, he wanted Batman Forever to be darker but the people who got rid of Burton wanted a "kid friendly movie". Which is probably why we saw things like the Bat credit card

This is true to a point. Schumacher DID want to do Batman: Year One when offered the film, it was told by WB that he was to do a sequel not a prequel. So he went along with it with Burton as producer. When Batman Forever dailies were seen by executives at WB they offered Shumacher full control and full reign over Batman and Robin and he then chose to give something as a nod to the 60s show. The Bat Credit Card was all Shumacher's attempt at a joke....it just that we didn't laugh.

 

[DiFabio]

The Bat Credit Card was all Shumacher's attempt at a joke....it just that we didn't laugh.

Arnold's Mr. Freeze is great though.

 

[aussieinnyc]

Great videos - haven't seen them before. Thanks!

I like that they're honest about B&R, and it's nice to see Forever looked at separately as the success that it actually was. Such a shame that B&R tainted it in people's memories.

 

[haytil]

I never said their was actual "evidence" of that. Re-read, I said my own personal assumptions. I and still stand by those assumptions.

Everyone's free to have their own assumptions and opinions - I'll be the last to state otherwise. But now you've gone and put those assumptions in public and, in doing so, implied that a specific person may have acted inappropriately, with racial motivations, without providing a single shred of evidence. That's where it crosses the line from your own personal, internal assumptions to potentially hurtful, unsupported accusations.

I just think you should be careful about that - it doesn't matter how wishy-washy you are about what you've said, the bottom line is that you've made an accusation, and without any evidence, to boot. Not only is that irrational, it's also potentially hurtful.

I agree, maybe he did want to decide for himself who he felt should play the part. But there was plenty of big name minority actors that he could've easily gotten to replace the minority actors, that were already set to play said parts.

But why should he have wanted to tamper with casting in a manner so specific as to keep certain minorities in his film? Wouldn't it have been more logical for him to just pick who he wants, regardless of race? Why should he have racial motivations to do anything?

For instance, if it's not really important whether Harvey Dent is black or white (and it's not), then why should he have gone out of his way to replace Billy Dee Williams with another, more talented, more famous, and specifically black actor? Why not just another more talented, more famous actor in general?

And I wasnt talking about in the Batman universe, I was talking about the actual Batman films themselves.

Fair enough...but don't forget, you've got Morgan Freeman in the two new movies, Ken Watanabe in the former, and Michael Jai White and Chin Han in the latter. Heroes and villains, major and minor.

 

[haytil]

I agree man, everyone hates on Schumacher, it wasn't all his fault.

He could've said "No." He could've walked away. Plenty of directors have done so in the past - hell, Burton himself did it on this project!

The fact is that Schumacher had no problem doing whatever the studio wanted (which was to sell toys and appease McDonalds). As director of the project, he shoulders the responsibility of any successes OR failures.

That's what leadership is.

...but there are gay undertones - intentional or not - in the source materials as well.

I have to disagree with this.

A modern re-interpretation of the original source materials might reveal gay undertones. But read in the context of its creation, in the manner and setting in which it was created and originally read, there were no gay undertones (intentional or not) in the original source material.

Things have changed a lot in the last 70 years. What might have looked gay to us now was in fact rather innocent then.

 

[thenammagazine]

I never said their was actual "evidence" of that. Re-read, I said my own personal assumptions. I and still stand by those assumptions. I agree, maybe he did want to decide for himself who he felt should play the part. But there was plenty of big name minority actors that he could've easily gotten to replace the minority actors, that were already set to play said parts. But anyways, whats done is done...

And I wasnt talking about in the Batman universe, I was talking about the actual Batman films themselves.

I often find that people who jump at the chance to point and cry "racist" are, in fact, racists themselves. I'm not necessarily accusing anyone, just throwing that out there.

 

[EdwardNashton1]

Thought you guys might find these interesting (for those who haven't seen it)

Special "making of featurette". Was featured on the Batman:The Anthology DVD set. Schumacher & casts of Batman Forever & Batman & Robin reflects on the films. They talk about Schumacher taking over along with his visions & concepts for his two directed Batman films. He also talks about why they weren't well received...

Making of Batman Forever
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=haARToOY84Y

Making of Batman & Robin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HeGHP-7DBNw

Thanks for the vids bro! Really cool stuff. Have yet see all of them, but so far I appreciate Batman Forever all the more!

The Bat Credit Card was all Shumacher's attempt at a joke....it just that we didn't laugh.

....I did...

Arnold's Mr. Freeze is great though.

I agree, he was so badass.