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karamazov80 said:
A Cena heel turn has seemed like the most logical move in the world for about, what, 7 years now? :lol I would love to see it happen, but now might not be the best time IMO because creative has been unable or unwilling to put any other face into a top spot. Bryan and Cena are the only guys now that Punk left. Until Roman Reigns, or Cesaro, or someone else can somehow get that spot, it might be best for the purpose of dramatic storytelling that there is another major face available.
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Didn't they already try that though to no avail? :lol
 
They've tried to turn Cena heel? Not actively that I have seen. They've done it unintentionally by shoving him down everyone's throats. But unlike the way it turned out for Batista, there's no backing down from Vince. Cena is such an ideal face for the company in his mind--a modern day Hogan--that he's just not willing to take any real risks there.
 
karamazov80 said:
They've tried to turn Cena heel? Not actively that I have seen. They've done it unintentionally by shoving him down everyone's throats. But unlike the way it turned out for Batista, there's no backing down from Vince. Cena is such an ideal face for the company in his mind--a modern day Hogan--that he's just not willing to take any real risks there.
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They tried with CM Punk. That's why he gets the "Cena sucks!" chant along with all the boos. It didn't work though, and I really don't see it working in the future either without some kind of NWO thing that'd set him up like a Hollywood Hogan.
 
karamazov80 said:
Cena is such an ideal face for the company in his mind--a modern day Hogan--that he's just not willing to take any real risks there.
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He is and isn't.

He's where he is because he is a star guy no doubt but they just can figure out how to get him over to the large percentage of the crowd that are against him on a regular basis.

It can be done here or there and if he's not in the ring with someone like Punk or Bryan or someone who is over with that harder core crowd then he can come out looking good as the face but the bigger the show the bigger it doesn't work.

I think a good long heel run followed by a later turn would actually solve the problem but it's been going on for so long that I don't think it matters to them. Go all the way back to 2006 for the main event at WM vs HHH and it's the same then as now and they've never really done much though there have been several teases over the years.
 
I didn't see that with Cena, anymore than the way that happens whenever Cena feuds with another major face (Rock, Bryan). The fans were hating on Cena way before Punk was ever a contender in WWE. But heel turns don't take place until the guy actually takes a heel action, and Cena's never done that. Thinking back, this was always the case, even with the slow burn heel turns--Bret Hart insulted the fans and the USA, Bryan started acting like a chickenshit heel when he was the Smackdown champ, publicly humilated AJ, etc. But yeah, with Cena I would expect a very straightforward, unambiguous turn if it happened. He beats the **** out of the major face for no reason, explicitly turns on the fans, doesn't joke around anymore, etc.
 
Lightsider1972 said:
He is and isn't.

He's where he is because he is a star guy no doubt but they just can figure out how to get him over to the large percentage of the crowd that are against him on a regular basis.
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Well I just meant that he's the 'roided up superhuman company man with great mic skills and the ability not to actively offend anyone that Hogan no doubt was to Vince's eyes during his heyday.

Lightsider1972 said:
I think a good long heel run followed by a later turn would actually solve the problem but it's been going on for so long that I don't think it matters to them. Go all the way back to 2006 for the main event at WM vs HHH and it's the same then as now and they've never really done much though there have been several teases over the years.
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Yeah, the more things change, the more they stay the same :lol And I think that's really how the WWE (unintentionally) catalyzed the audience toward Bryan last year--when it was going to be Orton vs. Big Show with HHH pulling the strings right after Bryan got screwed. . .if it was almost anyone else, it probably would have been OK, but those old throw-backs to the early-mid 2000s still in the main event picture just made the audience collectively roll its eyes.
 
When they push Cesaro I hope they leave Zeb as his mic. Although his in-ring skills are fantastic his mic skills are non-existent and he will definitely need Zeb to help him with that.
 
Phil Sierra said:
When they push Cesaro I hope they leave Zeb as his mic. Although his in-ring skills are fantastic his mic skills are non-existent and he will definitely need Zeb to help him with that.
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I agree. English being probably his 4th or 5th language, it's just hard for him to be the full package alone, but with Mantel as a mouthpiece I think he could go all the way, in the same way Lesnar (another guy with no mic skills to speak of) did. I think that's the only thing he's lacking though. Otherwise, in terms of look, ability/athleticism, ability to tell a story in the ring that the audience can get behind, range of matches he can excel at, and level of personality he can portray and charisma he can exude, the only guy over the last 10 years who I think rivals him is Kurt Angle.
 
One of the problems the writers must have is the over exposure that wrestling has gotten via social media and the "curtain" being pulled back. I think Cena has done more Make A Wish programs than any other celebrity. It would be difficult to continue using that as a positive reflection on the company if he becomes the bad guy. An example of this would be the whole program with Stephanie and HHH bullying Bryan seeming hypocritical in light of thier support of the anti-bullying campaign. They could make Cena more edgy without turning him heal. He could run a program where he got tired of being dissed by the hardcore fans and adding more technical based moves to try and win them over. He could cut out all the pseudo rapping and flashing finishers. That would rub the superhero Cena fans the wrong way without making him a heel. Win/win
 
I don't see the make a wish thing a problem, Randy Orton has been in a lot of things for doing good and helping kids when he was in his heel legacy stage, are people really believing it's still real?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
SMC92 said:
I don't see the make a wish thing a problem, Randy Orton has been in a lot of things for doing good and helping kids when he was in his heel legacy stage, are people really believing it's still real?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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:exactly:
I realize there are some young kids who don't understand and some reeeeeeeeeeeally dumb inbreds, but overall, the switch to World Wrestling Entertainment and the continual label of "sports entertainment" should've been a clear sign to any adult with an IQ over 73 that it's scripted. :lol
 
Still learning the dynamics here, but this is really helpful. God, if anyplace could use a tutorial... :lol

So, in order to be allowed to state my brash and negative opinion of everything where it carries weight and is accepted by the larger group, I should watch wrestling and discuss it in a reasonable and serious manner.
But I have to ask since it's kind of confusing, is it cooler to watch religiously and ridicule the WWE, or be a true fan who doesn't try to act like it's beneath them?
I love learning! :D

Also, Justin Bieber has helped realize more MAW wishes than any other celebrity.

I suspect that little revelation will finally make it possible to buy 9mm ammo at a real B&M store. :)
 
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I really hope that people out there don't really think wrestling is real. It would be a sad sad thing. Now I have a question for those really in the know when it comes to wrestling. Maybe there's even people here who are pro wrestlers. So I know the story lines and outcomes of the matches are scripted and predetermined, but are the matches themselves scripted and choreographed move by move? I always thought they were, but after watching Total Divas it seems like they aren't. It seems like they go in and fight and try and sell each other's moves. I've also been to a few events and I can't tell if they rehearse the match or if they go in and just wrestle.
 
From what I've read and heard, there is some variation across matches, often depending on the wrestlers involved. Some guys like to have more scripted matches than others. Some guys like to go in and call almost the whole thing on the fly. But there are usually at least a handful of spots that are planned out ahead of time, so that a match has a dramatic ebb and flow, and hopefully, a decent ending. My guess is they will also map out a general story/plan for the match, like, will it be a squash, a back and forth match, a match where one guy works over injuries on another guy, one where there will be outside interference, etc.
 
If you pay attention you can often see the wrestlers whispering to each other. Randy Orton is really bad about it. He couldn't be more obvious if he had a chalk board at ringside diagraming each move set.
 
From listening to numerous podcasts and reading biographies most matches are called in the ring, usually by the most veteran in the ring or the heel (heels usually control the match). Big spots/moments and the finish are planned out in advance the rest is called in the ring occasionally you'll see then talking when in rest holds like a headlock or something, another bad for this was Punk I usually would notice him do it every match. Occasionally you get a guy who wants to rehearse the match and plan it all out move by move, Randy Savage was notorious for this, steamboat dislikes his match with savage because of how planned it was despite many feeling it is one of the greatest of all time.
 
yruh8n said:
If you pay attention you can often see the wrestlers whispering to each other. Randy Orton is really bad about it. He couldn't be more obvious if he had a chalk board at ringside diagraming each move set.
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Cena is the worst for that and Mr Wrestlemania was also bad at it as well.
 

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