The ill Jedi
ILLest of 'em all!!
Shai Hulud said:
LOL, that is funny as hell!!
The Hulk is the Greatest hero of all.
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LOL, that is funny as hell!!
Tendou-Kabuto
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Mithrandier said:
Mithranadier You are my Hero. I 100% agree with you!
The ill Jedi
ILLest of 'em all!!
Darklord Dave said:
DC characters are one dimensional and boring. Marvel characters are more real and have everyday problems; that's why as a kid I was able to relate more to Peter Parker who dealt High Scool, family, bully and Girlfriend problems, as opposed to the stiffs over at DC. Keep your so called noble icons, make mine Marvel!!!
Tendou-Kabuto
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From my own personal experience.
DC- Is very traditional classic style US Super-Hero stories and characters. On occasion they'll do a "marvel" character or story but for the most part everything is about super heroes vs super villains. Everything is very ideal and convenient. It's great if you like Big stories of Good vs evil. The good guys are good and bad guys are bad for the most part. There is depth in the chars to some degree, lately DC's been trying to make it more "deep" but for the most part it's more simple and idealistic right down to the costumes, characters and stories. In result chars are one dimensional and things are very cut and dry.
Marvel- Is generally bolder than DC. Characters are more indepth and have human flaws making them more relatable. The world is not ideal and very much like our own world. Things are not very convenient and it can really make you wonder why these "heroes" even bother. Super-heroes are feared, not celebrated like they are in DC. the writers make it more or less like the real world. Things are generally a Lot grayer and not as Black and White as DC. Character ideals are brought on the table a lot more and there's a lot more drama in general. Great for ppl who like Characterization and angst in Superheroes. Problem with Marvel is that the characters all have a character gimmick or flaw that has to remain in order for the character to remain marketable. Meaning they can never get over their "problems"
And of course the problem with all US Superhero Comics is that they just keep going on and on to the point where nothing ever really happens. Writers change all the time, characters and stories become inconsistent and contadictory. Things can change and be pushed but in the end it always has to go back to it's defaults. Character's are stuck in "stasis" and the reader every few yrs is only given the (As quoted by Quesada himself) "The Illusion of Change"
How wrong is that?
US comics are still enjoyable tho, only wish they would frikkin end.
Make mine Manga
DC- Is very traditional classic style US Super-Hero stories and characters. On occasion they'll do a "marvel" character or story but for the most part everything is about super heroes vs super villains. Everything is very ideal and convenient. It's great if you like Big stories of Good vs evil. The good guys are good and bad guys are bad for the most part. There is depth in the chars to some degree, lately DC's been trying to make it more "deep" but for the most part it's more simple and idealistic right down to the costumes, characters and stories. In result chars are one dimensional and things are very cut and dry.
Marvel- Is generally bolder than DC. Characters are more indepth and have human flaws making them more relatable. The world is not ideal and very much like our own world. Things are not very convenient and it can really make you wonder why these "heroes" even bother. Super-heroes are feared, not celebrated like they are in DC. the writers make it more or less like the real world. Things are generally a Lot grayer and not as Black and White as DC. Character ideals are brought on the table a lot more and there's a lot more drama in general. Great for ppl who like Characterization and angst in Superheroes. Problem with Marvel is that the characters all have a character gimmick or flaw that has to remain in order for the character to remain marketable. Meaning they can never get over their "problems"
And of course the problem with all US Superhero Comics is that they just keep going on and on to the point where nothing ever really happens. Writers change all the time, characters and stories become inconsistent and contadictory. Things can change and be pushed but in the end it always has to go back to it's defaults. Character's are stuck in "stasis" and the reader every few yrs is only given the (As quoted by Quesada himself) "The Illusion of Change"
How wrong is that?
US comics are still enjoyable tho, only wish they would frikkin end.
Make mine Manga
Meh, Star Wars owns over both. 
Superman vs Darth Vader
The Empire attacks a planet merely to lure Superman into action. While he's distracted destroying TIE fighters, Vader, aboard the Death Star gives the order to blast him and the planet full on.
A loud ringing fills Sperman's ears as he realizes too late that he is caught in a trap. Merely knocked out by the blast, he is brought on board the Death Star where Vader has Imperial techs waiting with a carbonite chamber.
A specialy designed chamber that combines carbonite with green kryptonite. Vader had done his reasearch on his adversary ahead of time and employed the Empire's elite minds to design the machine.
Superman is brought into the room containing the device that will seal his fate. The Man of Steel begins to stir, waking before predicted by the Imperials. He quickly grabs the nearest Stormtrooper and flings him across the room. The soldier slams into the control panel for the chamber,damaging it and exposing it's inner workings.
At that very moment, the room's large doors ominously slide open and in walks Vader. Ignighting his lightsaber he repeately goes to work across both sides of Supermans head, knocking him backward and keeping him off balance. Although very weak from the presence of kryptonite in the room, Superman is still able to duck a blow and in the blink of an eye grabs Vaders right arm and renders it completely off.
Having now lost his lightsaber, Vader calls upon the Force and shoves Superman asross the floor and into the chambers' pit. He then orders the remaining Imperials to lay down heavy fire to keep Superman pinned down.
Vader then strides over to the control console, and using his natural mechanical abilites, splices the wires in his torn off arm into the damaged panel. Then activates the machine.
Superman, at this point so close to the green kryptonite, is simply unable to pull himself out of the pit. As he hears the loud pressurized sounds of his impending doom, the last image he sees is that of a cold black helmet starring down at him.
Epiloge:
Imperial communications officer TK-783, having just finished a gruling 14- hour shift, hurries to the head to empty his swollen bladder. As he relives himself he looks up on the wall to see a large rectangular shaped box. Greenish-brown in color, it appears to have the image of a muscular man with a "S" on his chest carved into it.
"Hmm...weird art in this place."
End.
Superman vs Darth Vader
The Empire attacks a planet merely to lure Superman into action. While he's distracted destroying TIE fighters, Vader, aboard the Death Star gives the order to blast him and the planet full on.
A loud ringing fills Sperman's ears as he realizes too late that he is caught in a trap. Merely knocked out by the blast, he is brought on board the Death Star where Vader has Imperial techs waiting with a carbonite chamber.
A specialy designed chamber that combines carbonite with green kryptonite. Vader had done his reasearch on his adversary ahead of time and employed the Empire's elite minds to design the machine.
Superman is brought into the room containing the device that will seal his fate. The Man of Steel begins to stir, waking before predicted by the Imperials. He quickly grabs the nearest Stormtrooper and flings him across the room. The soldier slams into the control panel for the chamber,damaging it and exposing it's inner workings.
At that very moment, the room's large doors ominously slide open and in walks Vader. Ignighting his lightsaber he repeately goes to work across both sides of Supermans head, knocking him backward and keeping him off balance. Although very weak from the presence of kryptonite in the room, Superman is still able to duck a blow and in the blink of an eye grabs Vaders right arm and renders it completely off.
Having now lost his lightsaber, Vader calls upon the Force and shoves Superman asross the floor and into the chambers' pit. He then orders the remaining Imperials to lay down heavy fire to keep Superman pinned down.
Vader then strides over to the control console, and using his natural mechanical abilites, splices the wires in his torn off arm into the damaged panel. Then activates the machine.
Superman, at this point so close to the green kryptonite, is simply unable to pull himself out of the pit. As he hears the loud pressurized sounds of his impending doom, the last image he sees is that of a cold black helmet starring down at him.
Epiloge:
Imperial communications officer TK-783, having just finished a gruling 14- hour shift, hurries to the head to empty his swollen bladder. As he relives himself he looks up on the wall to see a large rectangular shaped box. Greenish-brown in color, it appears to have the image of a muscular man with a "S" on his chest carved into it.
"Hmm...weird art in this place."
End.
SolidLiquidFox
doing it...for all of us
The ill Jedi said:
I am going to have to disagree on that generalization.
Nightwing is one of my favorite DC heroes. The guy has gone from Boy Wonder to developing into his own man. He is DC's version of Spidey, Daredevil with a hint of Batman in there (obviously).
Tendou-Kabuto
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SolidLiquidFox said:
I am a fan of Nightwing too. Sadly, the way things work out in DC comics he probably wont be doing anything truly worthwhile ever and will always be in the shadow of Bruce. It's sad but rarely does anyone outside of the Big 3 and Hal ever do anything worthwhile in that universe. I wish Characters like Nightwing would get the spotlight once in a while
PosterBoyKelly
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SolidLiquidFox said:
Yeah I think that point of veiw has changed dramatically over the last 20 years. I like DC characters more, but more Marvel characters overall. But since writers like Jeph Loeb, Frank Miller and Paul Dini to name a few have surfaced, they've proven that DC characters have just as much humanity as Marvel. I mean look at Superman (obvious I know), the guy is a regular joe, a regular farm raised innocent guy, and at the same time he's the most powerful being on earth. And instead of being a jag he has to constintly keep himself in check and do the right thing. Continually questioning his every choice. That's prety complex. Again, just an example though. To me it's who's writing that brings the hero out, whether it's DC or Marvel.
Now,I like DC more generallybecause I look at it this way:
DC-Myth/Fantasy
Marvel-Sci-Fi
I prefer fantasy and myth, like Star Wars (which is NOT a Sci-Fi movie!) I love Sci-Fi, but for me deep down it goes to the mythical feeling of NOT knowing why a man can fly, he just can. It's not the point, the point is what will he do with that?
Back on topic, the Hulk is great, but not my fav. With Marvel, it's ol blue boy, Captain America!
SolidLiquidFox
doing it...for all of us
PosterBoyKelly said:
I agree. The mythology of DC can not be denied. It is stronger than Marvel's everyday heroes feel. Not better, just stronger. That's why I brought up the Nightwing example. We are all familiar with his story. Trained by the guy who is the pinnacle of human perfection. Raised as a child around superheroes he has gone on to lead a team of superpowered kids and then teenagers. He is an evolution of Batman himself. All with zero superpowers.
My favorite Marvel character is Spidey. I always though Cap was lame until Mark Waid and Andy Kubert tried to do something with him in the 90's. Then John Cassaday's art sort of revitalized the character to what we see now on Civil War.
snowtrooper1966
Freakzoid
Greetings!
Ah, an old argument that can never be settled.
For me, the thrill of sharing in the adventures of superheroes started as a kid, with the four color process primary color palate and "Biff-Bang-Pow" action.
It has since evolved over the years into a full-blown appreciation of a unique art form and All-American mythology! Truly, some of these characters we have grown up with have achieved legendary status, and their origins, mythological proportions!
For my generation, being born in 1966, I came in at a time that the greats had been established, and the comic companies were stretching their wings and trying to come up with new, different characters. Our parents, who grew up reading Superman and Batman had matured and stopped reading. It wasn’t socially acceptable to be an adult and to read/collect comics. The two big companies were struggling to attract new, younger readers.
During that time, a lot of writers were humanizing the heroes, making them more accessible by the readers, not just invulnerable heroes without regard for their mortality, of the problems of everyday life. I think this is when the “division” occurred. Marvel was great at making the heroes fallible and real easily related to by teens. DC excelled at larger than life, over the top heroes and action. While this is a generalization, and both styles of story telling did cross over between companies, that was the general feeling I walked away with.
As a teen, I related more to the X Men’s moral dilemmas, Spider Man’s personal quandaries and the Hulk’s sadness more than DC’s perceived two dimensional stories. I read Marvel almost exclusively. As I followed the stories, I felt like I was growing up with them as well. Then I started getting really attached to specific writers and artists. I found that I would get very disenchanted when they were changed. It became very frustrating, and in the end, drove me away from that art form for a time.
After some time, I picked up Frank Miller's spin on Batman, The Dark Knight. To my extreme pleasure, I was feeling the old magic returning, but with new characters. I began to delve deeper into the DC universe, and again, the art and dialogue would be interrupted by new creators, but I began to understand that this was an integral part of this art form. It was necessary to keep things fresh. Sure, storylines would abruptly end, heroes personas' would alter, but in the end, I felt that I was seeing the big picture for the first time. No matter what happened to my heroes in the production process, I understood that this dynamic was keeping things fresh. I appreciated some art and writing more than others, but with a rare exception, how many interesting Aunt May subplots does any particular writer have in them? I might night not like the current artist, but my hero was still there underneath all the pencil and ink lines I did not appreciate. As art is subjective, one reader’s horror is another’s comedy. You just can’t please everyone all the time.
I have grown to accept and love this dynamic, ever evolving art form. Our pop culture icons have matured to ageless legends!
I think I am lucky to be living in a time when Hollywood is tripping over themselves to make the next mega block buster billion dollar movie based on a hero. I for one, never dreamed I would have to opportunity to see the Dark Phoenix onscreen, or have the possibility of seeing Galactus devour a planet in my local theater. I feel very protective (as if they need MY protection of my beloved characters, and may not like Hollywood’s take on a particular story, but know that occasionally know they will get it right. For every few Fantastic Four flops, I will get a gem like The Hulk…..
Again, I think that this is a subjective art form open to interpretation. It is arrogant to say one is better or worse than the other, but understandable, as we have grown up with these legends, and have deep rooted emotional and psychological ties to them.
Best,
Ah, an old argument that can never be settled.
For me, the thrill of sharing in the adventures of superheroes started as a kid, with the four color process primary color palate and "Biff-Bang-Pow" action.
It has since evolved over the years into a full-blown appreciation of a unique art form and All-American mythology! Truly, some of these characters we have grown up with have achieved legendary status, and their origins, mythological proportions!
For my generation, being born in 1966, I came in at a time that the greats had been established, and the comic companies were stretching their wings and trying to come up with new, different characters. Our parents, who grew up reading Superman and Batman had matured and stopped reading. It wasn’t socially acceptable to be an adult and to read/collect comics. The two big companies were struggling to attract new, younger readers.
During that time, a lot of writers were humanizing the heroes, making them more accessible by the readers, not just invulnerable heroes without regard for their mortality, of the problems of everyday life. I think this is when the “division” occurred. Marvel was great at making the heroes fallible and real easily related to by teens. DC excelled at larger than life, over the top heroes and action. While this is a generalization, and both styles of story telling did cross over between companies, that was the general feeling I walked away with.
As a teen, I related more to the X Men’s moral dilemmas, Spider Man’s personal quandaries and the Hulk’s sadness more than DC’s perceived two dimensional stories. I read Marvel almost exclusively. As I followed the stories, I felt like I was growing up with them as well. Then I started getting really attached to specific writers and artists. I found that I would get very disenchanted when they were changed. It became very frustrating, and in the end, drove me away from that art form for a time.
After some time, I picked up Frank Miller's spin on Batman, The Dark Knight. To my extreme pleasure, I was feeling the old magic returning, but with new characters. I began to delve deeper into the DC universe, and again, the art and dialogue would be interrupted by new creators, but I began to understand that this was an integral part of this art form. It was necessary to keep things fresh. Sure, storylines would abruptly end, heroes personas' would alter, but in the end, I felt that I was seeing the big picture for the first time. No matter what happened to my heroes in the production process, I understood that this dynamic was keeping things fresh. I appreciated some art and writing more than others, but with a rare exception, how many interesting Aunt May subplots does any particular writer have in them? I might night not like the current artist, but my hero was still there underneath all the pencil and ink lines I did not appreciate. As art is subjective, one reader’s horror is another’s comedy. You just can’t please everyone all the time.
I have grown to accept and love this dynamic, ever evolving art form. Our pop culture icons have matured to ageless legends!
I think I am lucky to be living in a time when Hollywood is tripping over themselves to make the next mega block buster billion dollar movie based on a hero. I for one, never dreamed I would have to opportunity to see the Dark Phoenix onscreen, or have the possibility of seeing Galactus devour a planet in my local theater. I feel very protective (as if they need MY protection
of my beloved characters, and may not like Hollywood’s take on a particular story, but know that occasionally know they will get it right. For every few Fantastic Four flops, I will get a gem like The Hulk…..Again, I think that this is a subjective art form open to interpretation. It is arrogant to say one is better or worse than the other, but understandable, as we have grown up with these legends, and have deep rooted emotional and psychological ties to them.
Best,
snowtrooper1966
Freakzoid
Oh, and before I forget:
Hulk smash puny Superman……
Hulk smash puny Superman……
the Doctor
Just a little Freaky
i loooooove the hulk.
snowtrooper1966
Freakzoid
The greatest american hero?
..somebody had to say it....
..somebody had to say it....
JSA
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Kingdom Come - the best comic story ever
I'm not a comic reader regularly, BUT I do check out the trade paperbacks
(I think that is the term - comics re-printed into a larger book style format)
from my library, and my gold standard right now is Kingdom Come.
The amazing artwork combined with the epic storyline makes it, for me, the
best comic story I've ever read. I just bought the Absolute Kingdom Come
hardcover edition, and I couldn't be happier. Superman, Wonder Woman,
and Batman are who I still consider to be the top 3 superheroes.
I also read Marvels, and I didn't care for that one at all. Just didn't click
for me. I also read The Watchmen, and I've got to re-read it as well, as
it didn't click either, and everybody swears it is fantastic. I'll try it again.
So I'm going to go put on my jammies now and read KC - again.....
JS
PS - I love the Hulk plenty, but it is more his rage and physical appearance,
and not for his in-depth storylines. Has there ever been any epic Hulk stories?
Mithrandier said:
I'm not a comic reader regularly, BUT I do check out the trade paperbacks
(I think that is the term - comics re-printed into a larger book style format)
from my library, and my gold standard right now is Kingdom Come.
The amazing artwork combined with the epic storyline makes it, for me, the
best comic story I've ever read. I just bought the Absolute Kingdom Come
hardcover edition, and I couldn't be happier. Superman, Wonder Woman,
and Batman are who I still consider to be the top 3 superheroes.
I also read Marvels, and I didn't care for that one at all. Just didn't click
for me. I also read The Watchmen, and I've got to re-read it as well, as
it didn't click either, and everybody swears it is fantastic. I'll try it again.
So I'm going to go put on my jammies now and read KC - again.....
JS
PS - I love the Hulk plenty, but it is more his rage and physical appearance,
and not for his in-depth storylines. Has there ever been any epic Hulk stories?
PosterBoyKelly
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Yeah, I don't get this DC= Babies Marvel=Men! thing going on. I mean I like both, bt I certainly think Superman and the rest of DC have as much going on as Marvel emotionally and mentally. What's immature about upholding morals and a more innocent point of veiw? Capt. America does it and he's Marvel. Hell Spider-Man does it too.
Mithrandier
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Didn't know there was an argument...............cause there is no competition.........Marvel is better period ...........but you really should read all the posts and not just read one til it offends you and then make a statement.............you have your own opinion on which is better............you just happen to have chosen wrong............better drink some warm milk while you read your KC..........
...........but you really should read all the posts and not just read one til it offends you and then make a statement.............you have your own opinion on which is better............you just happen to have chosen wrong............better drink some warm milk while you read your KC..........
Mithrandier
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Just to show that some of this is fun:
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