The Dark Knight Rises ***USE SPOILER TAGS***

[ZaCHw117]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

My guess is the Dent funeral/eulogy and Gordon being demoted will occur early on picking up right after TDK and then jump forward to Batman no longer being around/Gordon back to being a Detective.

Spoiler:

Gordon gets demoted? This is new.

 

[intothevoid]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Spoiler:

Gordon gets demoted? This is new.

Spoiler:

He's a war hero

 

[Deckard]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Spoiler:

Gordon gets demoted? This is new.

I would think "Mayor's gonna can him in the fall" or w/e the line is exactly where Nixon (Modine's character) is talking about Gordon being demoted at the eulogy is a big deal. Commissioner is an appointed position, not a rank you earn necassarily. If a new Mayor or anything comes in he can get rid of the current administration.

Why would they hold a eulogy for a dead man 8 years later, surely if that jump does occur it would make sense.

 

[Alex Logan]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

My guess is the Dent funeral/eulogy and Gordon being demoted will occur early on picking up right after TDK and then jump forward to Batman no longer being around/Gordon back to being a Detective.

My biggest fear at this point, and I don't pretend to know the entire plot, but there is already enough similarities from what we have seen to Batman Begin's storyline, that I'm afraid it will suffer from ROTLA/Last Crusade syndrome where to many of the major elements are recycled. The need for Batman and Gordon to both crawl their way back up the ladder again being the obvious. The LOS being seemingly gone but then later returning to destory Gotham, Bruce falling in love with a woman he can't have etc. I already saw that movie.

Maybe, but doubtful. If anything it's not a funeral/eulogy, but more a remembrance type thing. Kina like 911.

Nolan isn't know for recycling stories.

 

[ZaCHw117]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Spoiler:

He's a war hero

I would think "Mayor's gonna can him in the fall" or w/e the line is exactly where Nixon (Modine's character) is talking about Gordon being demoted at the eulogy is a big deal. Commissioner is an appointed position, not a rank you earn necassarily. If a new Mayor or anything comes in he can get rid of the current administration.

Why would they hold a eulogy for a dead man 8 years later, surely if that jump does occur it would make sense.

How many times have I watched that trailer too.....

 

[intothevoid]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Maybe, but doubtful. If anything is not a funeral/eulogy, but more a remembrance type thing. Kina like 911.

Nolan isn't know for recycling stories.

Yeah, I think the jump has already occurred at this point. Mainly because Gordon looked a little aged

 

[Deckard]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Maybe, but doubtful. If anything is not a funeral/eulogy, but more a remembrance type thing. Kina like 911.

Nolan isn't know for recycling stories.

But is Harvey Dent as important as 9-11? Thousands died. I think thats a bit of a stretch, what did he really do for Gotham?

For starters he lied about being Batman, causing millions in damages to the city, millions in damages to vehicles and helicopters and the loss of life all over a plot to trick a terrorist that ended up backfiring and resulted in the destruction of a police station and several more officers dead. He supported the vigilante they now all blame for all their trouble more then anyone else publicly.

He attempted to prosecute several hundred criminals at once, which is so ludicrously an abuse of the justice and legal system to group murderers in with guys that were simply a chauffeur for a mob figure and tri them togeather. And then as Gordon pointed out, most of them were set free anyway costing the city even more in having to jail them, clothe them, feed them for a short period.

He did murder several people, and took Gordon's child and wife from their home and and put a gun to his son's head and was about to blow his brains out. I can't imagine Gordon sticking up for him when in reality he was a pretty big failure in the what, 2 months he was in Gotham?

 

[intothevoid]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

But is Harvey Dent as important as 9-11? Thousands died. I think thats a bit of a stretch, what did he really do for Gotham?

For starters he lied about being Batman, causing millions in damages to the city, millions in damages to vehicles and helicopters and the loss of life all over a plot to trick a terrorist that ended up backfiring and resulted in the destruction of a police station and several more officers dead. He supported the vigilante they now all blame for all their trouble more then anyone else publicly.

He attempted to prosecute several hundred criminals at once, which is so ludicrously an abuse of the justice and legal system to group murderers in with guys that were simply a chauffeur for a mob figure and tri them togeather. And then as Gordon pointed out, most of them were set free anyway costing the city even more in having to jail them, clothe them, feed them for a short period.

He did murder several people, and took Gordon's child and wife from their home and and put a gun to his son's head and was about to blow his brains out. I can't imagine Gordon sticking up for him when in reality he was a pretty big failure in the what, 2 months he was in Gotham?

I think you missed the entire point of the ending of TDK

 

[Deckard]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

No i get it, that's why it's even more implausible to me. Gordon and Bruce both genuinely still believe that he was the hero Gotham needed to believe in yet the only time he ever accomlishes anything it's far more illegal (and abuse from within the system) and far more destructive then anything Batman ever does.

You want to talk unrealistic in Nolanverse, for me that takes the cake over flying cars and the sure to never be explained disappearance of Mr.Reese who would surely be sought after for revealing on national television he knows who Batman is. Especially now that the police are actively hunting him.

 

[Alex Logan]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Yeah, I think the jump has already occurred at this point. Mainly because Gordon looked a little aged

Yep.

I think you missed the entire point of the ending of TDK

And yep.

 

[Gully Foyle]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

What about the latina cop who called the coin correctly and was spared by Dent?

Wouldn't she talk? Wouldn't she know who murdered the other crooked cops? Why would she be motivated to maintain the Dent myth? Who put the ram in the ramalamadingdong?

 

[intothevoid]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

No i get it, that's why it's even more implausible to me. Gordon and Bruce both genuinely still believe that he was the hero Gotham needed to believe in yet the only time he ever accomlishes anything it's far more illegal (and abuse from within the system) and far more destructive then anything Batman ever does.

You want to talk unrealistic in Nolanverse, for me that takes the cake over flying cars and the sure to never be explained disappearance of Mr.Reese who would surely be sought after for revealing on national television he knows who Batman is. Especially now that the police are actively hunting him.

What Dent he accomplished was cleaning the streets for long enough to make a lasting difference (at least for a while).

And as you say, he was the hero Gotham needed to believe in, and so, with the clean streets and Dent's presumably heroic death (the story I assume Gotham will be fed... Joker killed him, or something), he does inspire a period of calm in Gotham.

Nolan said in an interview that where they wanted to go from the end of TDK was to say...what if Batman/Gordon's plan actually works, that Gotham believes their lie and is actually inspired into a period of peace. For that inspiration to hold, Gordon is obliged to continue to remind the city of his supposed sacrifice and his example. That is what all this remembrance is all about.

 

[Deckard]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Yep.



And yep.

Which point do you think I missed, that if Gordon and Batman don't lie to the people of Gotham, it will break their spirits? I get that completely, it's just not something I would imagine either going along with. Dent got Rachel and about a dozen cops killed and Wayne knew he was mentally unstable for a while. He saw him put a gun to that other criminal's head. And Gordon's son was just almost killed twice by him. I get thats where the drama comes from them having to pretend he was a great guy but its not believable. They don't have enough reason to want to protect this Gotham in Nolan's story.

What about the latina cop who called the coin correctly and was spared by Dent?

Wouldn't she talk? Wouldn't she know who murdered the other crooked cops? Why would she be motivated to maintain the Dent myth? Who put the ram in the ramalamadingdong?

and the csi guys at the bar and then the car accident scene, the various survelliance cams in Gotham, and just random people in the street who didn't notice a burn victim walking around during a terorist evacuation, apparently Harvey left no trace even tho his face was practically dripping off. What about Gordon's wife and son?

 

[Alex Logan]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

What Dent he accomplished was cleaning the streets for long enough to make a lasting difference (at least for a while).

And as you say, he was the hero Gotham needed to believe in, and so, with the clean streets and Dent's presumably heroic death (the story I assume Gotham will be fed... Joker killed him, or something), he does inspire a period of calm in Gotham.

Nolan said in an interview that where they wanted to go from the end of TDK was to say...what if Batman/Gordon's plan actually works, that Gotham believes their lie and is actually inspired into a period of peace. For that inspiration to hold, Gordon is obliged to continue to remind the city of his supposed sacrifice and his example. That is what all this remembrance is all about.

 

[intothevoid]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

its not believable. They don't have enough reason to want to protect this Gotham in Nolan's story.

Seeing as the entire story so far is built around Gordon and Bruce being the two guys who believe in Gotham and believe it can be saved, I don't see how you've come to think it's not believable

I never found myself seeing a lack of motivation or conviction in either character, but anyway, if that's what you feel then that's what you feel

 

[Deckard]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Its just how I feel about the story Nolan has told, Bruce has in no way ever been remotely rewarded for what he's done, he's had nothing but loss every step of the way, now more then ever, causing more harm then good, and I get thats kinda Batman's thing, he loses it all and still has the will to keep going, I just don't feel like Batman has faced enough at this point early on and in Nolan's world to be that level of comitted yet. Just me personally. Gordon and his wife were already fighting about what he was doing, now those actions she warned him about led to her son being kidnapped and almost killed. Why would she now just be ok and go along with it.

 

[intothevoid]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Well youre getting at a point which may well be explored in Rises, Bruce has just faced loss upon loss, do why be Batman, why care anymore? I think he'll be facing some of those existential issues for those 8 yrs and we'll find him a pretty sorry figure in the beginning of the film.

 

[Deckard]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Well it seems thats why he hung up the cowl and is taking more of a Thomas Wayne throw money at it approach. It still comes off to me however as being erratic character writing in certain instances.

Obviously I'll see the movie and let it play out before I say the plot ruined the movies but atm they are concerns.

 

[jye4ever]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Hul....err...Batman Smash!

 

[ZaCHw117]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

"He's not being a hero, he's being something more." This line started the third act for TDK. It's the point where you realize Bruce's deontoligical ethic belief towards solving Gotham's problems. If one bad thing (not telling the truth about Harvey) makes for a greater good (Gotham's well being) he will do it.