The Dark Knight Rises ***USE SPOILER TAGS***
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Re: Batman/Dark Knight 3rd Film
Although I was thinking of a TDKR style version.
Just kidding.
Although I was thinking of a TDKR style version.
Just kidding.
pjam
Here on the Perimeter
Re: Batman/Dark Knight 3rd Film
Well, I think you have to ask yourselves if YOU were Nolan et al and doing the last of your Trilogy Stories which Villains make the most sense to you...
Well, I think you have to ask yourselves if YOU were Nolan et al and doing the last of your Trilogy Stories which Villains make the most sense to you...
Re: Batman/Dark Knight 3rd Film
Depends on how it goes I suppose. I don't want to see Batman love story. If Catwoman's in it, I'd like to see the romance played as minimally as between Bruce and Rachel, just enough to know it's there, but not take focus away from Batman's solo struggles. I like how Nolan keeps Bruce a playboy with flings (implied by his hotties in tow) but never having a truly meaningful relationship.
Depends on how it goes I suppose. I don't want to see Batman love story. If Catwoman's in it, I'd like to see the romance played as minimally as between Bruce and Rachel, just enough to know it's there, but not take focus away from Batman's solo struggles. I like how Nolan keeps Bruce a playboy with flings (implied by his hotties in tow) but never having a truly meaningful relationship.
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Re: Batman/Dark Knight 3rd Film
The 'playboy with flings' implied by his hotties in tow, which I imagine you mean like the helicopter arrival at the party scene are all just for show or, rather, to keep up appearances.
He loves/loved Rachel.
But I agree at keeping the romance to a minimum.
The 'playboy with flings' implied by his hotties in tow, which I imagine you mean like the helicopter arrival at the party scene are all just for show or, rather, to keep up appearances.
He loves/loved Rachel.
But I agree at keeping the romance to a minimum.
Re: Batman/Dark Knight 3rd Film
Exactly, he was with girls, but they were for show and kicks, but Rachel was the only one that actually meant something and he couldn't have her and the few inclinations he could were brief so he's always been like a lost boy searching for his place in the world, and finding it in Batman but also wanting other things but realizing he can't have them if he's to be Batman, which is why I love the end of TDK, he embraces that fact and goes with it instead of throwing in the towel, committing to a higher purpose. I'd like a Selina relationship played the same as with Rachel, inclinations it could be, but his committment to justice and what she is will never allow it to be, just another emotional weight for him to bear.
Exactly, he was with girls, but they were for show and kicks, but Rachel was the only one that actually meant something and he couldn't have her and the few inclinations he could were brief so he's always been like a lost boy searching for his place in the world, and finding it in Batman but also wanting other things but realizing he can't have them if he's to be Batman, which is why I love the end of TDK, he embraces that fact and goes with it instead of throwing in the towel, committing to a higher purpose. I'd like a Selina relationship played the same as with Rachel, inclinations it could be, but his committment to justice and what she is will never allow it to be, just another emotional weight for him to bear.
The Mike
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Re: Batman/Dark Knight 3rd Film
I've said it since watching TDK on these boards and will keep saying it the best villain for Batman 3 is Black Mask. The character has ties to both Bruce Wayne and Batman. Roman Sionis's father was a business adversary to Thomas Wayne and hated the Waynes themselves. He accidentally kills his parents and inherits their business leaving it completely ran into the ground and eventually purchased by Bruce Wayne himself. Bruce Wayne offered to bail out the company on the condition that Sionis give up control and allow Wayne to appoint his own Board of Directors. Sionis agreed, but was furious at the humiliation he had suffered.
Black Mask becomes a minor mob boss and goes after Bruce Wayne himself. It ties both the mob who seems to be the real major villain in these films, a villain for Batman to go after and a angle for Bruce Wayne.
Not to mention he has a serious Selina Kyle tie, Black Mask threatened the most important people in Catwoman's life, from Slam Bradley to Holly Robinson. Still thinking that she adhered to a strict no-kill rule, Black Mask was caught by surprise when Catwoman retaliated by shooting him in the head, killing him. After the shooting, Selina Kyle passed the mantle of Catwoman to her friend Holly. Not long after, Holly was arrested for Black Mask's murder.
Its the line that could be crossed to prove to Bruce that he and Selina could never be together because she is willing to go through the steps that he isn't. It looks like they share the line but she crosses and becomes the person that the Joker wanted Batman to be.
A love possibility after Rachel but it crumbles due to Black Mask's involvement and becomes slightly more tragic because its a love that can never be. Batman rides off into the sunset knowing that he has to eventually catch Selina. Bruce Wayne decides that he must continue unattached because the loves of his life have fallen through and we get a nice tie to the end of the trilogy using a villain that is as old as Ras and less known.
Not to mention he is involved in gang wars with everyone from The Penguin to The Ventriloquist and has hired anyone from Bane to Killer Croc to work with him so it leaves the window open for a ton of cameos.
I've said it since watching TDK on these boards and will keep saying it the best villain for Batman 3 is Black Mask. The character has ties to both Bruce Wayne and Batman. Roman Sionis's father was a business adversary to Thomas Wayne and hated the Waynes themselves. He accidentally kills his parents and inherits their business leaving it completely ran into the ground and eventually purchased by Bruce Wayne himself. Bruce Wayne offered to bail out the company on the condition that Sionis give up control and allow Wayne to appoint his own Board of Directors. Sionis agreed, but was furious at the humiliation he had suffered.
Black Mask becomes a minor mob boss and goes after Bruce Wayne himself. It ties both the mob who seems to be the real major villain in these films, a villain for Batman to go after and a angle for Bruce Wayne.
Not to mention he has a serious Selina Kyle tie, Black Mask threatened the most important people in Catwoman's life, from Slam Bradley to Holly Robinson. Still thinking that she adhered to a strict no-kill rule, Black Mask was caught by surprise when Catwoman retaliated by shooting him in the head, killing him. After the shooting, Selina Kyle passed the mantle of Catwoman to her friend Holly. Not long after, Holly was arrested for Black Mask's murder.
Its the line that could be crossed to prove to Bruce that he and Selina could never be together because she is willing to go through the steps that he isn't. It looks like they share the line but she crosses and becomes the person that the Joker wanted Batman to be.
A love possibility after Rachel but it crumbles due to Black Mask's involvement and becomes slightly more tragic because its a love that can never be. Batman rides off into the sunset knowing that he has to eventually catch Selina. Bruce Wayne decides that he must continue unattached because the loves of his life have fallen through and we get a nice tie to the end of the trilogy using a villain that is as old as Ras and less known.
Not to mention he is involved in gang wars with everyone from The Penguin to The Ventriloquist and has hired anyone from Bane to Killer Croc to work with him so it leaves the window open for a ton of cameos.
Re: Batman/Dark Knight 3rd Film
Sounds like a cool character Mike, and certainly a possibility, depends on how familiar with the Batman world Nolan and his team are, if people know of Black Mask. If they do, he certainly has the right backstory from your description to work into Nolan's world. I imagine their first pass is to see if Riddler, Penguin, Catwoman and other well knowns can fit in. I only know a range of Batman villains from the 90's cartoons, like Ra's and Scarecow. So while they are catering to huge Bat fans, they're also looking to connect with the more casual ones like myself. I'm accepting of whatever he chooses because it'll fit his world and story, but some folks who know Batman as I do may not like non-mainstream villains being used.
Sounds like a cool character Mike, and certainly a possibility, depends on how familiar with the Batman world Nolan and his team are, if people know of Black Mask. If they do, he certainly has the right backstory from your description to work into Nolan's world. I imagine their first pass is to see if Riddler, Penguin, Catwoman and other well knowns can fit in. I only know a range of Batman villains from the 90's cartoons, like Ra's and Scarecow. So while they are catering to huge Bat fans, they're also looking to connect with the more casual ones like myself. I'm accepting of whatever he chooses because it'll fit his world and story, but some folks who know Batman as I do may not like non-mainstream villains being used.
pjam
Here on the Perimeter
Re: Batman/Dark Knight 3rd Film
Excellent observation, Mike. And it would play well and be fresh. Maybe this is who David has in mind...
I do see this ending in a big flourish though, so I would suspect they are gonna throw down the gauntlet here. Multiple Villains, Madness, etc...
And as for Bruce. He is human. Life goes on. I definitely see him with a new love interest. The franchise needs a strong Female character plugged in here. And I'm sure it will be kept within the confines of Nolanesque Storytelling.
Excellent observation, Mike. And it would play well and be fresh. Maybe this is who David has in mind...
I do see this ending in a big flourish though, so I would suspect they are gonna throw down the gauntlet here. Multiple Villains, Madness, etc...
And as for Bruce. He is human. Life goes on. I definitely see him with a new love interest. The franchise needs a strong Female character plugged in here. And I'm sure it will be kept within the confines of Nolanesque Storytelling.
The Mike
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Re: Batman/Dark Knight 3rd Film
Lets put it this way. Goyer admitted that Black Mask had an original cameo in TDK during the mob scene was was going to be carried through but was cut due to time constraints and the inability to accurately introduce him to the audience. He did say in an interview though that Nolan liked him. What that amounts to though is anyone's guess.
Lets put it this way. Goyer admitted that Black Mask had an original cameo in TDK during the mob scene was was going to be carried through but was cut due to time constraints and the inability to accurately introduce him to the audience. He did say in an interview though that Nolan liked him. What that amounts to though is anyone's guess.
Re: Batman/Dark Knight 3rd Film
Well at the very least, it confirms their awareness of the character. You can never tell how deep into the source material they get.
Well at the very least, it confirms their awareness of the character. You can never tell how deep into the source material they get.
Re: Batman/Dark Knight 3rd Film
I've said it before, of all the villains available and way thing are left after TDK, I think Riddler and Black Mask would be the best villains, or Black Mask and Catwoman. Personally I'd like to see Catwoman, but she might not be the best fit for the story. I suppose they could do all three so long as one takes a back seat role.
Things that should happen in #3
1) redemption of Batman, re-est. of Bat signal at end of film
2) a threat to all of Gotham. As much as I'd like Catwoman, she just doesn't cut it in this regard.
3) new Wayne manor, new Batcave, new Bat-gadgets.
4) a threat to Bruce himself would be nice to compliment Batman being hunted, bigger than the burning of Wayne Manor and the blackmail TDK subplot. Perhaps a threat to or the death of Alfred or Lucius.
5) inclusion of the mob & a new mob boss. Black Mask would be ideal here.
6) strong female character. Catwoman, Talia or a newly invented character. No Poison Ivy or Harley Quinn.
7) at least one well known, A list villain.
I definitely do NOT want to see Bane, Manbat, Clayface or Mr. Freeze.
I've said it before, of all the villains available and way thing are left after TDK, I think Riddler and Black Mask would be the best villains, or Black Mask and Catwoman. Personally I'd like to see Catwoman, but she might not be the best fit for the story. I suppose they could do all three so long as one takes a back seat role.
Things that should happen in #3
1) redemption of Batman, re-est. of Bat signal at end of film
2) a threat to all of Gotham. As much as I'd like Catwoman, she just doesn't cut it in this regard.
3) new Wayne manor, new Batcave, new Bat-gadgets.
4) a threat to Bruce himself would be nice to compliment Batman being hunted, bigger than the burning of Wayne Manor and the blackmail TDK subplot. Perhaps a threat to or the death of Alfred or Lucius.
5) inclusion of the mob & a new mob boss. Black Mask would be ideal here.
6) strong female character. Catwoman, Talia or a newly invented character. No Poison Ivy or Harley Quinn.
7) at least one well known, A list villain.
I definitely do NOT want to see Bane, Manbat, Clayface or Mr. Freeze.
Re: Batman/Dark Knight 3rd Film
Agreed. But I don't want anymore contrived love interests, either.
I definitely do NOT want to see Bane, Manbat, Clayface or Mr. Freeze.
Agreed. But I don't want anymore contrived love interests, either.
Re: Batman/Dark Knight 3rd Film
I disagree that Rachel was too contrived. The Dr. Chase character in Batman Forever, sure, but everything was contrived in that film.
Edit: (what the hell? F L I C K is a dirty, censored word now? anyone care to explain how that is objectionable? Is this because of the Gears of War knuckleheads?)
Rachel has a great arc and brings a lot out of the Bruce character that would be much more difficult if not impossible to do another way. The character was smart and tough, made sense in Nolan's world and was understandable why Bruce would have deep feelings for her. Introing her as a childhood friend that learns Batman's true identity, then is murdered in the second film, which deepens Batman's sacrifice and sense of loss, was a smart move. Sure she doesn't have a ton of depth, though certainly as much as the other second string players, but it's ok to have an uncorrupted do-gooder character. Unfortunately for Rachel, she was played by the craptacular Katie Holmes and the somewhat less irritating, but somewhat uglier Maggie G.
And I don't want a female-less film. The interactions and scenes between a man and a woman have a different tone and dynamic than those between 2 men. I think that smartly written love interests that tie directly into the plot make the whole story stronger and give the narrative a different flavor, I just don't want any love scenes in these type of films.
I disagree that Rachel was too contrived. The Dr. Chase character in Batman Forever, sure, but everything was contrived in that film.
Edit: (what the hell? F L I C K is a dirty, censored word now? anyone care to explain how that is objectionable? Is this because of the Gears of War knuckleheads?)
Rachel has a great arc and brings a lot out of the Bruce character that would be much more difficult if not impossible to do another way. The character was smart and tough, made sense in Nolan's world and was understandable why Bruce would have deep feelings for her. Introing her as a childhood friend that learns Batman's true identity, then is murdered in the second film, which deepens Batman's sacrifice and sense of loss, was a smart move. Sure she doesn't have a ton of depth, though certainly as much as the other second string players, but it's ok to have an uncorrupted do-gooder character. Unfortunately for Rachel, she was played by the craptacular Katie Holmes and the somewhat less irritating, but somewhat uglier Maggie G.
And I don't want a female-less film. The interactions and scenes between a man and a woman have a different tone and dynamic than those between 2 men. I think that smartly written love interests that tie directly into the plot make the whole story stronger and give the narrative a different flavor, I just don't want any love scenes in these type of films.
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Re: Batman/Dark Knight 3rd Film
Ya, I don't feel like Rachel was contrived. I had a female friend when I was Bruce's age at the start of Begins and when we reached dating age I fell in love with her and wanted to spend my life with her more than anything in the world, so the Bruce and Rachel relationship totally worked for me, and I buy into it more than him meeting someone in his adult years. Rachel is a tie to his past life and represents what could have been if his life hadn't spun out of control with the death of his parents and the emotions and decisions that followed that incident.
I almost see Batman not taking an interest in another woman in Nolan's world. As stated in Rachel's letter, they've really established that he needs Batman as much as Gotham, and it seems like a natural progression for him with Rachel dead and having to surmount the city wanting him hung in the square would force him deeper into Batman and sort of cut him off from the world and make him reclusive and uninterested in "normal" life.
I think for love interest to work, the woman almost needs to remind him of Rachel, to snap him out of his tunnel vision as Batman and entice him to another lifestyle again.
Ya, I don't feel like Rachel was contrived. I had a female friend when I was Bruce's age at the start of Begins and when we reached dating age I fell in love with her and wanted to spend my life with her more than anything in the world, so the Bruce and Rachel relationship totally worked for me, and I buy into it more than him meeting someone in his adult years. Rachel is a tie to his past life and represents what could have been if his life hadn't spun out of control with the death of his parents and the emotions and decisions that followed that incident.
I almost see Batman not taking an interest in another woman in Nolan's world. As stated in Rachel's letter, they've really established that he needs Batman as much as Gotham, and it seems like a natural progression for him with Rachel dead and having to surmount the city wanting him hung in the square would force him deeper into Batman and sort of cut him off from the world and make him reclusive and uninterested in "normal" life.
I think for love interest to work, the woman almost needs to remind him of Rachel, to snap him out of his tunnel vision as Batman and entice him to another lifestyle again.
Re: Batman/Dark Knight 3rd Film
I totally agree with you, Maulfan. It would take a unique woman for Bruce again. A strong woman, who brings out the best in him, and grounds him, similar to Rachel. That's why the Selina Kyle relationship is so interesting. She's strong, independent and has a defined philosophy, but isn't as goody goody as Rachel. I could see him wanting to encourage her, and Catwoman to some extent, to become the best person she has within her in, the same way Rachel wanted for Bruce. He would see something of himself in her, certainly with the dual identity thing. It would thematically tie the first film and the third together, except with a role reversal of Bruce now taking Rachel's position, and would compliment the theme of redemption for the third film.
Regardless, the third film will no doubt have the specter of Rachel Dawes and no better way of dealing with that than Bruce finding himself attracted to someone new.
I totally agree with you, Maulfan. It would take a unique woman for Bruce again. A strong woman, who brings out the best in him, and grounds him, similar to Rachel. That's why the Selina Kyle relationship is so interesting. She's strong, independent and has a defined philosophy, but isn't as goody goody as Rachel. I could see him wanting to encourage her, and Catwoman to some extent, to become the best person she has within her in, the same way Rachel wanted for Bruce. He would see something of himself in her, certainly with the dual identity thing. It would thematically tie the first film and the third together, except with a role reversal of Bruce now taking Rachel's position, and would compliment the theme of redemption for the third film.
Regardless, the third film will no doubt have the specter of Rachel Dawes and no better way of dealing with that than Bruce finding himself attracted to someone new.
Hulksmashed
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Re: Batman/Dark Knight 3rd Film
In a sense, Rachel was the last push Bruce Wayne needed to become Batman. Her outrage at Bruce's "revenge" scheme is what turned Bruce from the "coward" that would pull a gun into the man that needed to become a symbol of good. So his love for her would probably have been as strong as his need to be The Bat. IMO.
In a sense, Rachel was the last push Bruce Wayne needed to become Batman. Her outrage at Bruce's "revenge" scheme is what turned Bruce from the "coward" that would pull a gun into the man that needed to become a symbol of good. So his love for her would probably have been as strong as his need to be The Bat. IMO.
scubasteve
Super Freak
Re: Batman/Dark Knight 3rd Film
Yes, her death was necessary for the story arc. It speaks to the genesis of the Batman character and who/what he is/becomes.
Yes, her death was necessary for the story arc. It speaks to the genesis of the Batman character and who/what he is/becomes.
Bigjay715
Freakalicious
Re: Batman/Dark Knight 3rd Film
please if the is a god, no robin it would kill the franchise
please if the is a god, no robin it would kill the franchise
The Mike
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Re: Batman/Dark Knight 3rd Film
Third Batman is Underway
02.02.2009
Rumor has it that the third installment of the newly revitalized Batman franchise is in the scripting stage. According to IESB an "extremely reliable source" said the project is now in the writing stage with Christopher Nolan, Jonathan Nolan and David Goyer.
When Jeff Otto, representing IESB, got the chance to talk to producer Chuck Roven today, he jumped at the chance to confirm…of course Roven wasn't going to say much and was very evasive but he did do a good song and dance performance,
IESB: We've been told that Jonathan, Chris and David are working on the new Batman script. Do you know the direction they’re going or do you wait for them to formulate something more complete before you get involved?
Chuck Roven: The creative driver of the project at this point is Chris. There’s really nothing more for me to say about that. When he feels that he’s got something to talk about, then we’ll be able to talk about it.
IESB: I know you can’t tell us who the villain or villains are, but do you personally know?
[Big smile and a laugh] CR: I really don’t want to talk about that project right now.
We've double checked and we are definitely hearing the script is being written as we speak.
Third Batman is Underway
02.02.2009
Rumor has it that the third installment of the newly revitalized Batman franchise is in the scripting stage. According to IESB an "extremely reliable source" said the project is now in the writing stage with Christopher Nolan, Jonathan Nolan and David Goyer.
When Jeff Otto, representing IESB, got the chance to talk to producer Chuck Roven today, he jumped at the chance to confirm…of course Roven wasn't going to say much and was very evasive but he did do a good song and dance performance,
IESB: We've been told that Jonathan, Chris and David are working on the new Batman script. Do you know the direction they’re going or do you wait for them to formulate something more complete before you get involved?
Chuck Roven: The creative driver of the project at this point is Chris. There’s really nothing more for me to say about that. When he feels that he’s got something to talk about, then we’ll be able to talk about it.
IESB: I know you can’t tell us who the villain or villains are, but do you personally know?
[Big smile and a laugh] CR: I really don’t want to talk about that project right now.
We've double checked and we are definitely hearing the script is being written as we speak.
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