SWEENEY TODD

[BadMoon]

That may be one purpose of art. There are others. And is everything then defined as ART? A bowel movement on paper perhaps?

Buts lets look at your answer to why this movie is made. My preconception is that it is morally and ethically wrong to murder innocent people. How does this movie challenge my preconception of that? Just the opposite since it only reenforced it in spades. And I did not need a bunch of people lining up to have their throats slit with orgiastic fervor to know that in the first place. And I suspect the vast majority of others already know that also.

I understand where you are coming from in a way. However, shouldn't you have been clued into the fact that this was a violent movie? I mean it is rated R and talks about how a character makes people into meat pies. It was even titled the Demon Barber of Fleet St. Demon isn't too friendly of a term if you ask me. I just don't know what you expected to see.

 

[El Roranous]

That may be one purpose of art. There are others. And is everything then defined as ART? A bowel movement on paper perhaps?

Buts lets look at your answer to why this movie is made. My preconception is that it is morally and ethically wrong to murder innocent people. How does this movie challenge my preconception of that? Just the opposite since it only reenforced it in spades. And I did not need a bunch of people lining up to have their throats slit with orgiastic fervor to know that in the first place. And I suspect the vast majority of others already know that also.

If you don't get it then unfortunately, you just don't get it. There was beauty in this movie- both on it's surface and in the characters. A viewer like yourself may have to look beyond the superficial actions and look into the reasons behind them to fully appreciate this movie.

Personally, I love blood and splatter. Made my day.

 

[Darklord Dave]

The blood also serves an artistic purpose. The entire film is in a very muted pallet (aside from the beach fantasy sequence) and the red blood serves to break up that color scheme and is all the more shocking for that. It is intended to shock and surprise to a certain extent - that's why we go to horror movies and ride rollercoasters.

 

[BadMoon]

The blood also serves an artistic purpose. The entire film is in a very muted pallet (aside from the beach fantasy sequence) and the red blood serves to break up that color scheme and is all the more shocking for that. It is intended to shock and surprise to a certain extent - that's why we go to horror movies and ride rollercoasters.

Yep pretty much summed it up. The director of Stigmata used alot of green and dark tones so when she received her wounds the blood would appear more red. Directors use color to create a emotional response. In this case I would say it worked. I was in a theater and lots of older people walked out. My whole thing is they are so descriptive with their ratings how people would miss this.

 

[gideon]

Color can be used through a large variety of objects. Flowing fountains of blood from innocent victims who have been paraded before the camera for only that purpose makes what point?
If I just don't get it as ElRor said , please explain it to me. I do not mind violence in films. Not in the least. What I do mind is ridiculous violence being used much like erupting male sex organs in porno movies - and serving the same guilty pleasures in its viewers.

I also probably DO NOT GET that quaint cultural practice of female genital mutilation. Or that equally quaint cultural practice practiced by some backwoods hill folk of incest. But just because others DO GET IT does not justify it. Regardless of if I GET IT or I DO NOT GET IT, that has nothing to do with the value of that type of film and those scenes.

 

[El Roranous]

No need to get upset. It's just a movie. If you can't see what others see, is it really that big of a deal? Others may find Van Gogh's Starry Night an utter masterpiece while some may see it as just a bunch of squiggly lines. I think the same thing is happening here. I found beauty in the story and violence. As another poster said Todd was blind with revenge. The parade of killings shown on screen felt like a way to show the audience that Todd had truly dedicated himself to his one and only task. That he would have no hesitation or even afterthought when it came time to follow through. These killings were a warm-up. It was natural- revenge was natural. Plus, making the killings so casual and over a song was another way to shock the viewer and to show them that these people are not normal.

Either way, the cinematography was breathtaking and as Dave said the greys mixed with the red provided superb contrast. If you hated it then all you have to do is move on and forget.

 

[Buttmunch]

I just rented one of the stage soundtracks from my library, and I must say I'm actually glad with what they cut out so far (on Pretty Women currently). I like the Ballad of Sweeney Todd, but everthing else flows better in the film version. And what is up with Sweeney being BALD in the stage version? Overall, I like the film's stuff much better, but would definately catch the live version if it ever comes around here.

One thing I'm surprised nobody has mentioned is how the film ends without rapping up. There was no conclusion with the Johanna/boyfriend storyline. In the film he goes to get a carriage, but we never see him coming back. That really is very poor filmaking for someone so talented as Tim Burton. I know he wanted that awesome conclusion shot, but during the basement scene, they could have easily cut away to Johanna being picked up by the boyfriend. 10 seconds is all they needed to wrap that up. That was the ONLY thing I didn't like, well that and Johanna's song, but every musical has one of those songs so it was expected.

 

[gdb]

The point of the movie is that to seek revenge may lead to hell but everyone does it and seldom as well as Sweeney Todd.

Movies are such a personal thing. They create a reaction that seems so genuine and so obvious to each audience member that it's easy to forget that other people have their own perspective and their own reaction. I think, gideon, that you are projecting your own reaction on others. Everyone gets to have their own reaction. That's the nature of art. It's personal. I personally derive no pleasure from watching Pretty Woman. But just because I don't like it doesn't mean that others who love it are wrong -- and I'm not about to try to convince them otherwise. Everyone gets to have their own personal relationship with art.

What makes the violence acceptable as story telling elements is its over the top nature. If it was realistic it would be a snuff film. It's like in Kill Bill, if the violence was realistic in that film it would look and feel like Iraq. The movie is intended to be full of grave yard humor and shocking. The blood physics help create that tone.

But the comparrison between Sweeney Todd and a porno is tired and unsupported. Unless there were people pleasuring themselves in the theatre, it was not creating the same pleasure in the least. And except for the work of Peter North, there really is no comparrision to be made.

And please don't compare a critically acclaimed movie you don't like with something illegal that nobody likes. It's a cheap shot and it hits too close to censorship.


EDIT: the last bit is not refering to porn. It's legal and if its popularity on the internet is any indication, everyone likes it.

 

[gideon]

My comparison between SWEENEY and porno was in a limited context. In SWEENEY we have this extreme close-up of wild gushers of blood spurting several feet in the air like a fountain. It is exaggerated and overdone to the point of being a near parody. Same thing with the way they shoot ejaculation scenes in some porno movies to make it look like its flying across the room and could fill a bucket. In both cases, the director is appealing to some base instinct that is a particular fetish of the target audience.

My objections to this movie would not be so strong if they had avoided that sort of thing. It seemed to be done just to titilate the audience. Just look at the people posting in this thread who express a pleasure in enjoying all the bloodletting. My point is made for me.

gdb - you use the word EVERYONE twice in two different contexts. Everyone loves pron and everyone seeks revenge. A bit over the top I would think. Lots of folks .... maybe .... but EVERYONE!?!?!?!?

 

[El Roranous]

My comparison between SWEENEY and porno was in a limited context. In SWEENEY we have this extreme close-up of wild gushers of blood spurting several feet in the air like a fountain. It is exaggerated and overdone to the point of being a near parody. Same thing with the way they shoot ejaculation scenes in some porno movies to make it look like its flying across the room and could fill a bucket. In both cases, the director is appealing to some base instinct that is a particular fetish of the target audience.

My objections to this movie would not be so strong if they had avoided that sort of thing. It seemed to be done just to titilate the audience. Just look at the people posting in this thread who express a pleasure in enjoying all the bloodletting. My point is made for me.

gdb - you use the word EVERYONE twice in two different contexts. Everyone loves pron and everyone seeks revenge. A bit over the top I would think. Lots of folks .... maybe .... but EVERYONE!?!?!?!?

Better get ready for Church. You go everyday don't you?


Let us have our bloody fun. By the way, I LOVE PORN TOO!

 

[gdb]

gdb - you use the word EVERYONE twice in two different contexts. Everyone loves pron and everyone seeks revenge. A bit over the top I would think. Lots of folks .... maybe .... but EVERYONE!?!?!?!?

True enough. "To seek revenge may lead to hell but everyone does it and seldom as well as Sweeney Todd" comes from some of the lyrics that were cut from the stage musical and the everyone loves porn was only based on the internet's presence as being any indication. But true enough. (My mom can't stand porn no matter how many times I suggest a title that I think she will like -- no just a joke; she really dug Debbie Does Dallas -- another joke.)

 

[CAhobbit]

I just rented one of the stage soundtracks from my library, and I must say I'm actually glad with what they cut out so far (on Pretty Women currently). I like the Ballad of Sweeney Todd, but everthing else flows better in the film version. And what is up with Sweeney being BALD in the stage version? Overall, I like the film's stuff much better, but would definately catch the live version if it ever comes around here.

One thing I'm surprised nobody has mentioned is how the film ends without rapping up. There was no conclusion with the Johanna/boyfriend storyline. In the film he goes to get a carriage, but never see him coming back. That really is very poor filmaking for someone so talented as Tim Burton. I know he wanted that awesome conclusion shot, but during the basement scene, they could have easily cut away to Johanna being picked up by the boyfriend. 10 seconds is all they needed to wrap that up. That was the ONLY thing I didn't like, well that and Johanna's song, but every musical has one of those songs so it was expected.

Ah you must have checked out the show with Patti LuPone and Michael Cerveris. I didn't much care for Patti LuPone as Mrs. Lovett (but I got used to it). My favorite cast is still the original recording with Len Cariou as Sweeney and Angela Lansbury as Mrs. Lovett.

I don't believe the Joanna and Anthony storyline was really wrapped up in the musical either. I guess we are to assume that he got the carriage and they ran off together. Their storyline has never been my favorite of the show so I'm not to bummed that there isn't a visual wrap up.

 

[Buttmunch]

Ah you must have checked out the show with Patti LuPone and Michael Cerveris. I didn't much care for Patti LuPone and Mrs. Lovett (but I got used to it). My favorite cast is still the original recording with Len Cariou and Sweeney and Angela Lansbury as Mrs. Lovett.

I don't believe the Joanna and Anthony storyline was really wrapped up in the musical either. I guess we are to assume that he got the carriage and they ran off together. Their storyline has never been my favorite of the show so I'm not to bummed that there isn't a visual wrap up.

I think I have the original cast recording on hold as well, but it just hasn't come in yet because there is obviously a sudden demand for it at the library. I just can't figure out why.

 

[gideon]

from ElRor...

Better get ready for Church. You go everyday don't you?

If I go to church three times each day or have never gone to church in my entire life, that has nothing to do with this. Do you think it advances your position if you attempt to paint thos who disagree with your tastes with a wide brush? How does picturing me as some type of churchlady who advocates censorship advance the discussion here? And if you go back and read my posts I never ever in any way said or even intimated that such films should be banned, barred or censored in any way.

and to gdb - I would greatly prefer some elements and styles of porn to the type of thing I object to in SWEENEY. My comparison was limited to the example I gave of bodily fluids gushing forth to titilate the audience.

 

[El Roranous]

True enough. "To seek revenge may lead to hell but everyone does it and seldom as well as Sweeney Todd" comes from some of the lyrics that were cut from the stage musical and the everyone loves porn was only based on the internet's presence as being any indication. But true enough. (My mom can't stand porn no matter how many times I suggest a title that I think she will like -- no just a joke; she really dug Debbie Does Dallas -- another joke.)