Student Goes Off At Teacher About Education

[The Josh]

I agree 100%. At the same time though, i still think we need to come up with some way to gauge student and teacher performance. what that is??? We still dont know.

Unfortunately, the current trend to focus on standardized test results
and teacher/student performance is a VERY political one tied to the destruction of public schools, privatization, charters, and anti-unionization.

You do and I think if we actually set down its something we can fix.

Its crazy how mixed up all of that is. What ticks me off is you have people using education as a political football and they have no idea what its like to be in a classroom.

 

[Darkmatter]

That student is pretty typical of a fair amount of kids. As a teacher its my job to make sure my kids learn. I do my best to make the information intertersting so they want to learn it but the door has to be open. If they're not willing to accept the information and take some initiative it becomes very difficult to teach. You also get lots of kids that they already know how to do it but five seconds later ask for help.

Edit: It would also help if parents today taught their kids more respect and took some ownership in their childs behavior instead of just blaming the schools for all the issues.

right from the horse's mouth occy. but i noticed that the answer from a teacher's point of view still doesn't suit you because it's not in line with your way of seeing it. attaboy!!!

 

[devilof76]

Fu-- you still dont get it??
To be CLEAR...

The schools deemed to be failing are failing only because the SAME standardized tests are being used to asses student performance regardless of socio-economic status.
Is it REALLY a surprise that test results at a school where parents are 80% college educated and earn 100k+ a year do better than at a school where parents are less than 15% college educated and earn less than 40k a year??
Im not suggesting an alternative at all. Im just stating the obvious, at least to me and other teachers, that the current assessment being used is faulty.

So the poor schools would do better if the tests were DIFFERENT?

I'm not blaming the teachers in the poor schools necessarily. All I'm saying is that the schools that aren't passing the tests AREN'T passing the tests. That doesn't make the tests biased. It just means that the students who can't pass them aren't performing at the same level. A different test isn't going to make them any better off. It will just give them a A's for D work, whereas the higher performing schools only get A's for A work.

 

[ZaCHw117]

There's been an update, not sure if it was posted or not.

But the kid's mom is also a teacher. He dropped out for a year and came back because he realized how important it was to graduate.

 

[siquisiri]

You do and I think if we actually set down its something we can fix.

Its crazy how mixed up all of that is. What ticks me off is you have people using education as a political football and they have no idea what its like to be in a classroom.

That this HAS become a hammer to bash the teachers unions and that actual education has been pushed to the backseat is unforgivable.

 

[Darkmatter]

I agree 100%. At the same time though, i still think we need to come up with some way to gauge student and teacher performance. what that is??? We still dont know.

Unfortunately, the current trend to focus on standardized test results
and teacher/student performance is a VERY political one tied to the destruction of public schools, privatization, charters, and anti-unionization.

hold up a sign and picket. still won't change the fact that standardized testing is currently the accepted form of gauging a student. the schools are also responsible for their students to meet a certain percentage of passing grades. what more do people want? gauge the teachers? ridiculous. you do realize there is a shortage of teachers don't you? i believe we need to concentrate more on school security than busting the stones of underpaid and overworked teachers. boot the douches that not only don't want to learn, but they also want to control the time a teacher has during class. honestly, does anyone think if the little ****** asked the teacher a question about anything, that the teacher would say i refuse to answer?

 

[The Josh]

So the poor schools would do better if the tests were DIFFERENT?

I'm not blaming the teachers in the poor schools necessarily. All I'm saying is that the schools that aren't passing the tests AREN'T passing the tests. That doesn't make the tests biased. It just means that the students who can't pass them aren't performing at the same level. A different test isn't going to make them any better off. It will just give them a A's for D work, whereas the higher performing schools only get A's for A work.

In theory all kids should be able to take the same test and do virtually the same but in reality its not that way.

Where and how these kids grow up affects them. The question is simple but the answer is not.

 

[devilof76]

I wish Ween was here to really light this thread up.

In theory all kids should be able to take the same test and do virtually the same but in reality its not that way.

Where and how these kids grow up affects them. The question is simple but the answer is not.

I think the question is the problem. 9 times out of 10, you aren't going to get the same results from kids from families who aren't culturally education-oriented as you are from kids who come from the opposite background.

All kids can't take the same test and do the same. Theory to the contrary is poorly conceived.

 

[The Josh]

That this HAS become a hammer to bash the teachers unions and that actual education has been pushed to the backseat is unforgivable.

Yeah, its become about breaking the teachers unions and not about actually making sure the kids get the education they deserve.

The failure of the US education system starts and home and works its way all the way through.

 

[siquisiri]

So the poor schools would do better if the tests were DIFFERENT?

I'm not blaming the teachers in the poor schools necessarily. All I'm saying is that the schools that aren't passing the tests AREN'T passing the tests. That doesn't make the tests biased. It just means that the students who can't pass them aren't performing at the same level. A different test isn't going to make them any better off. It will just give them a A's for D work, whereas the higher performing schools only get A's for A work.

Yeah, but WHY they arent passing is a factor that SHOULD be taken into consideration. Its not just looking at the black and white numbers.
You have to have an assessment that takes the socio-economic disparity into account. The current one does not, therefore the test results are invalid.

 

[siquisiri]

In theory all kids should be able to take the same test and do virtually the same but in reality its not that way.

Where and how these kids grow up affects them. The question is simple but the answer is not.

 

[Blackthornone]

He had some excellent points that should be said. The teacher is one of those non charismatic non leader types who just like to enforce the rules of the system because it makes them feel more secure and that it is what everyone should do, to be cookie cutter people and just blindly follow the flock just like the teacher does.


I've met teachers like that. Below average intelligence people who just want a powerful position of influence in the system to lead people, yet they have no charisma to lead or inspire anyone but the most weak willed spineless children.

Not all teachers are like that. Some actually have charisma and can inspire and actually have passion for teaching and can charm their students into compliance. There are some teachers that just don't have many problems with students acting out because children sense that they have passion and integrity and have real natural leadership talent.

There are other teachers who have no real leadership ability and rely almost solely upon the written rules to threaten or punish students who get out of line, and they can only use those rules which actually exist. They cannot get respect because they do not inspire respect. Those teachers have constant problems with discipline in classrooms, because the children know those people aren't really competent to teach. They are a joke who just fill the teacher's seat for a paycheck and the most social prestige their limited intelligence will allow them to have in the establishment that they worship so much, because they are object referral people.

I heard the teacher's tone and voice which I have heard before, so I am certain of this.


As far as the student, he obviously has been thinking about these issues for some time and has a real problem with them. His concerns are sincere, but there is still a lot of grandstanding on his part, just for the sake of attention. Part of that proves his point that he can be far more engaging and interesting to listen to than the teacher is, despite how obnoxious he is being.
He doesn't strike me as a great scholar, but that doesn't change the fact that his points are valid.


That teacher is the kind of person who thinks she should just automatically be respected just because she is a teacher. The truth is that respect is earned, with constant effort, and she doesn't put in the effort necessary to deserve respect. She just sits on her *** and expects it.

 

[devilof76]

Yeah, but WHY they arent passing is a factor that SHOULD be taken into consideration. Its not just looking at the black and white numbers.
You have to have an assessment that takes the socio-economic disparity into account. The current one does not, therefore the test results are invalid.

If the socio-economic factor is so significant, why bother? If teachers cannot get through that, what is the point? It sounds more like you're arguing for the sake of teachers' right to a job educating the uneducatable than you are for a solution to their lack of educatability (oy...there has got to be a better word for that).

Yeah, its become about breaking the teachers unions and not about actually making sure the kids get the education they deserve.

The failure of the US education system starts and home and works its way all the way through.

So pay their parents to teach them.

 

[Blackthornone]

A country this rich didn't get through exploitation and theft.

Except when it first started and it stole almost all of it from the native peoples and it used slavery to dramatically kick start the economy by establishing the infrastructure so extremely cheaply. Without theft and exploitation, this country would never have become so rich so quick.

 

[siquisiri]

If the socio-economic factor is so significant, why bother? If teachers cannot get through that, what is the point? It sounds more like you're arguing for the sake of teachers' right to a job educating the uneducatable than you are for a solution to their lack of educatability (oy...there has got to be a better word for that).



So pay their parents to teach them.

F--k IT!.................

 

[devilof76]

If you insist. At least I offered a solution. All you've got is SOLIDARITY in yellow letters on a bumper sticker.

Except when it first started and it stole almost all of it from the native peoples and it used slavery to dramatically kick start the economy by establishing the infrastructure so extremely cheaply. Without theft and exploitation, this country would never have become so rich so quick.

You're wrong, but I said I wasn't touching the native american issue, and I'm sticking to it.

Land and slave labor had nothing to do with this country's success, and unless you're willing to claim that China and Russia had insufficent land or slaves at their disposal to escape their own radical poverty, you need to find another horse to ride in on.

 

[Blackthornone]

If you insist. At least I offered a solution. All you've got is SOLIDARITY in yellow letters on a bumper sticker.



You're wrong, but I said I wasn't touching the native american issue, and I'm sticking to it.

Land and slave labor had nothing to do with this country's success, and unless you're willing to claim that China and Russia had insufficent land or slaves at their disposal to escape their own radical poverty, you need to find another horse to ride in on.

Resources had to do with this country's success, and the land contained those resources. The slaves worked those resources as raw materials and turned them into a huge infrastructure which made all future success easier. This country was built on the backs of slaves.

 

[siquisiri]

Land and slave labor had nothing to do with this country's success

.....................................................................................

 

[devilof76]

Resources had to do with this country's success, and the land contained those resources. The slaves worked those resources as raw materials and turned them into a huge infrastructure which made all future success easier. This country was built on the backs of slaves.

You can repeat the lie all you want. The only thing it's going to do is convince the rest of the fools that they're right, and perhaps snare a handful of ignoramuses who don't and/or can't know better. There is so much idiocy and pure evasion involved in even being able to make those statements that I refuse to attempt to convince anyone so utterly enchanted with the dogma. Reality will be what it is, no matter how many of you fall for it.

 

[siquisiri]

If land and slave labor were are insignificant as you claim, why did the Southern states feel warranted to secede from the union??