Star Wars: The Acolyte

[ironwez20]

I still don't think you believe that. Every other word you type - and your inability to ignore any jab at the PT by Khev or Jye - suggests otherwise. I think you only say it out of some needless need to maintain credibility with the original fans.

Why not just admit it. You think they're great films, as good as the original trilogy. I would disagree with you but so what. Because you're right about one thing - the PT did find their audience and will continue to do so, meanwhile the older fans will have less and less sway and will eventually die off altogether.

The thing that the current generation of PT fans are a bit naive about is that you seem to think your own position about the ST is above reproach and that history will not repeat itself. But Star Wars will always be watched. There will always be new kids who grow up not with just 3 saga films, not with just 6 saga films but with 9 of them and they will largely accept what they are presented with.

Cause they are. The bad cgi and bad dialogue is horrible and yes the acting is bad but people can still find joy in them. They are so bad they are good films. And yes I do have an attachment to them cause of my age.

And yea true I know different gens will like Star Wars but tbh I don?t see any kids liking the ST or it?s characters. I see them liking the OT more. I don?t believe the PT is just as good as the OT cause sadly the OT had better acting and effects and is just told better but I still love PT. But truth be told I don?t really enjoy tpm or attack of the clones. I like some things in those films and the shows and characters that branched off it. It?s really ROTS that I love a lot. And will fanboy over.

When I get at jye and khev it?s cause they say ST is way better and better written which I think is false. For all it?s faults, the PT had vision and a plan and better fleshed out characters. Like it or not anakin had great development. Yes it was rushed but I honestly like it. Dude was about to lose everything he loved. But again I can see as clear as day why they are bad to some and the glaring flaws . Some stuff is just silly.

For example for as cool as the mustafar scene is its unrealistic and they would succumb to the fumes from the lava and the heat. Still and amazing fight tho imo.

So yea I do think they are bad but I still enjoy them and love rots. It?s like how Snyder fans enjoy his DC movies

 

[The Buffinator]

Nah I didn?t make ur point . You said the PT was t loved. Ashoka was actually hated just like anakin to once upon a time ago and she gained respect. It is a generational thing but again they improved over time cause of the clone wars and also rots. So it seems like hardcore OT fans hated it. And no PT centric and PT are t entirely different things. It exist in the same era and people could of not watch anything from it but over time people accepted it.

You're making broad generalizations about "OT fans" that you can't support. Just stop.

 

[ironwez20]

You're making broad generalizations about "OT fans" that you can't support. Just stop.

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I mean judging from what I?ve seen as a kid the OT fans seriously hated change and didn?t like flashy lighsaber fights. Then I remember them bullying Hayden and padme constantly. Also Ashoka was hated so severely back then it?s kinda crazy how she?s popular now.

Can we see this again with ROSE in the future? Lol

 

[ZE_501]

I mean judging from what I?ve seen as a kid the OT fans seriously hated change and didn?t like flashy lighsaber fights. Then I remember them bullying Hayden and padme constantly. Also Ashoka was hated so severely back then it?s kinda crazy how she?s popular now.

Can we see this again with ROSE in the future? Lol

I saw Star Wars in 1977. I was wee, but I was there.

Duel of the Fates is one of the best Star Wars set pieces I've ever seen.

It's not the actors' fault they were the victims of poor scripts and lackluster direction.

Ahsoka was a children's cartoon character and unworthy of notice one way or the other, and since been developed into an interesting character that's been fairly compelling in live action.

In some ways trying to follow-up and capitalize on the OT was always going to be a fool's errand, a suicide mission. But Lucas was wildly overconfident and Disney, brazenly cynical operators. Still, we get what we get. Take what is entertaining, discard the rest.

 

[TheDucky]

ironwez, you gotta remember the people you are talking too could be possibly be our grandparents age. They aren?t online. They don?t see what we see in the fanbase now.

 

[xipotec]

ironwez, you gotta remember the people you are talking too could be possibly be our grandparents age. They aren?t online. They don?t see what we see in the fanbase now.

It?s very interesting to see such a narrow view from the generation that?s supposed to be so open minded.

MOST OT fans are not Boomers. They missed the boat for the most part. They were too interested in disco and drugs.

As has been said before, each series of fans generates from the children at the time.

I would wager most OT original fans are between 40-60. Statistic support this. So unless you parents and grandparents had kids in their early teens and 20?s it?s unlikely they are much over 60.

Gen X and beyond makes up the core SW fans from the early days. PT was Millennials and beyond. They and the ST fans added to the OT fanbase as well. I am not sure there is a huge group of PT or ST fans that do not care for the OT.......yet.

Like many serial films , the OT is going to start to appear derivative to the newer fans. As their experience with the general story will be with newer films and shows.

It?s similar to what has happened to the Halloween franchise. The original film was a land mark AT THE TIME , but has become copied and rehashed so any times, that to modern audiences it?s mostly been seen before. But in 1977, it was original and revolutionary.

As far as being online.....just about every single person under the age of 60 has a strong online presence. While they are not living their lives online as the newer generations do. They are certainly there and active. They are the core demographic for advertisements right now.

I do think the OT fans will start to decrease however, not because of ?dying off? but because the films are aging , and finding less of a tolerant viewership in the younger generations who are used to photo realistic CGI. The are looking old. No matter how good the story is, the look of the film will turn off many people. Hell I know young people who refuse to watch anything black and white. My kids , have been lucky to grow up in a house of cinemaphiles and have seen some great films for all eras.

Most recently, 12 Angry Men, Failsafe, Sum of all Fears and the Wizard of Oz.

I remember being and angry youth as well. I think your view is understandable. But just narrow due to you lack of experience. It makes it no less you own personal truth.

I personally am happy the PT and franchise in general have strong fans from each era!

While OT and ST are the films I like the best, I am glad to see many of my nieces , nephews and other younger fans have such an affinity to the PT.


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[JAWS]

So much of the fandom is dictated by 2 things.

1. The age a fan saw each trilogy.
2. The unfettered desire of some?fans? to instantly jump on anything even minor to express their hatred toward the franchise they claim to love.

I don?t like most of the PT but the onus of that goes to GL and the story and scriptwriting group. Mostly GL himself.

The actors were getting what they thought was a dream job. I am sure Hayden thought he would be the next Ford.

After the way the ?fans? treated the new cast. I do not know how any actor could possible want to do the next series of films without a huge dump truck of money.

The Streaming shows, combined with the end of the Skywalker take may dampen the trolls a bit.....but maybe not. People are already slathering at the mouth over just the titles of the new shows, ready to rip them apart in the name of a YouTube subscriber or just to be counter culture.

Poor Ahmad Best.

The PT I was in my 20?s , sarcasm, defiance and cynicism were my bread and butter. So forgiving for the childish tone of them I was NOT! I have learned my distaste for the PT was more about my age and not understanding these were initially films for kids than anything else.

By the time the ST rolled around, I learned to find joy in just about anything I could in life. I learned to relax and enjoy a film for what it was....not some religion or identity tent pole, but 2 hours of fun in a Universe I loved to see.


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Great freaking post.

The PT is now loved while the ST is hated. Facts. Like it or not. I know all 4 of you hate that but the PT is now held as Great while ST is forgotten. The internet welcomes Hayden back with open arms when they use to bash him. Funny.

PT sells

I love when I am late enough to a conversation that I can just post what Buffinator writes.

Actually, when it comes to the PT I think it's a generational thing. I know no one (and I mean, NO ONE) who is my age or anywhere near who loves the PT and thinks it's great. Sure, there are some things to admire in them but on the whole we don't find them to be particularly good films. Most of us, truth be told, would have preferred that Episodes 7-9 were released in that time frame so we could have seen the continuation of Luke, Leia and Han's story before the actors reached their dotage and/or died. Alas, that didn't happen. You, on the other hand, were much younger when you experienced the PT and looked at them through an entirely different lens. Your thinking the PT was great is fine, but you're delusional if you think that others' opinions of them has been swayed by the announcements that Disney has made in the past week.

Well, PT centric and the PT are entirely different things. TCW (which I thoroughly enjoyed) was set during the PT and it fleshed out that era of Star Wars. It provided (a) depth to the characters of Anakin and Padme, (b) a believable friendship between Anakin & Obi-Wan, and (c) exciting new characters like Ahsoka & Assajj Ventress - all things that IMO Lucas failed to deliver with the PT movie trilogy.

So hey, thanks for bringing up Ahsoka and helping make my point (the PT failures) while subverting your own (an OT fan like me not liking change).

Slam Bam thank you ma'am. Massive take down.

I mean judging from what I?ve seen as a kid the OT fans seriously hated change and didn?t like flashy lighsaber fights. Then I remember them bullying Hayden and padme constantly. Also Ashoka was hated so severely back then it?s kinda crazy how she?s popular now.

Can we see this again with ROSE in the future? Lol

Ummmmmm.... Pretty sure that I have been watching ST haters complain about the way the OT characters changed.. No matter how much the change is explained they all wanted the same ol same ol.. I get it.. But come on man... Light Saber duels go back to OT style and all the PT fans freak... How about the bullying of Rose and Rey.

Seems that change is tuff for everyone.

By the way I loved TPM light saber Duels.. I thought the one in ROTS was directed poorly.

It?s very interesting to see such a narrow view from the generation that?s supposed to be so open minded.

MOST OT fans are not Boomers. They missed the boat for the most part. They were too interested in disco and drugs.

As has been said before, each series of fans generates from the children at the time.

I would wager most OT original fans are between 40-60. Statistic support this. So unless you parents and grandparents had kids in their early teens and 20?s it?s unlikely they are much over 60.

Gen X and beyond makes up the core SW fans from the early days. PT was Millennials and beyond. They and the ST fans added to the OT fanbase as well. I am not sure there is a huge group of PT or ST fans that do not care for the OT.......yet.

Like many serial films , the OT is going to start to appear derivative to the newer fans. As their experience with the general story will be with newer films and shows.

It?s similar to what has happened to the Halloween franchise. The original film was a land mark AT THE TIME , but has become copied and rehashed so any times, that to modern audiences it?s mostly been seen before. But in 1977, it was original and revolutionary.

As far as being online.....just about every single person under the age of 60 has a strong online presence. While they are not living their lives online as the newer generations do. They are certainly there and active. They are the core demographic for advertisements right now.

I do think the OT fans will start to decrease however, not because of ?dying off? but because the films are aging , and finding less of a tolerant viewership in the younger generations who are used to photo realistic CGI. The are looking old. No matter how good the story is, the look of the film will turn off many people. Hell I know young people who refuse to watch anything black and white. My kids , have been lucky to grow up in a house of cinemaphiles and have seen some great films for all eras.

Most recently, 12 Angry Men, Failsafe, Sum of all Fears and the Wizard of Oz.

I remember being and angry youth as well. I think your view is understandable. But just narrow due to you lack of experience. It makes it no less you own personal truth.

I personally am happy the PT and franchise in general have strong fans from each era!

While OT and ST are the films I like the best, I am glad to see many of my nieces , nephews and other younger fans have such an affinity to the PT.


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****ing epic post. One of the best.

And a great rebuttal to someone who wont watch older films or thinks that older movies suck.

 

[JAWS]

Why not just admit it. You think they're great films, as good as the original trilogy. I would disagree with you but so what. Because you're right about one thing - the PT did find their audience and will continue to do so, meanwhile the older fans will have less and less sway and will eventually die off altogether.

Ummmm I plan on living forever.

The thing that the current generation of PT fans are a bit naive about is that you seem to think your own position about the ST is above reproach and that history will not repeat itself. But Star Wars will always be watched. There will always be new kids who grow up not with just 3 saga films, not with just 6 saga films but with 9 of them and they will largely accept what they are presented with

Its so hard to tell... There is just so much more competition. Try as I might.. I just cant get my youngest into SW and my oldest is a casual fan.

Having said that they both were brought up with an appreciation of B&W movies, films of the 70's and Rey Harryhausen movies.. There is just so much more to do now then fan boy over SW.

And yea true I know different gens will like Star Wars but tbh I don?t see any kids liking the ST or it?s characters. I see them liking the OT more. I don?t believe the PT is just as good as the OT cause sadly the OT had better acting and effects and is just told better but I still love PT. But truth be told I don?t really enjoy tpm or attack of the clones. I like some things in those films and the shows and characters that branched off it. It?s really ROTS that I love a lot. And will fanboy over.

You do agree the ROTS is more AOTC then ESB.

When I get at jye and khev it?s cause they say ST is way better and better written which I think is false. For all it?s faults, the PT had vision and a plan and better fleshed out characters. Like it or not anakin had great development. Yes it was rushed but I honestly like it. Dude was about to lose everything he loved. But again I can see as clear as day why they are bad to some and the glaring flaws . Some stuff is just silly.

I think they mean (I could be wrong) that its a better written script in terms of dialogue. And that the acting / directing and look of the films is better then the PT.

Its hard to get past the acting in the PT and the goofiness of it. Its why I have the scene on Canto bight so much.. Its the most like the PT. I think TLJ is the most like the PT overall in terms of goofiness, poor acting and bad characters.

 

[ironwez20]

Great freaking post.



I love when I am late enough to a conversation that I can just post what Buffinator writes.





Slam Bam thank you ma'am. Massive take down.



Ummmmmm.... Pretty sure that I have been watching ST haters complain about the way the OT characters changed.. No matter how much the change is explained they all wanted the same ol same ol.. I get it.. But come on man... Light Saber duels go back to OT style and all the PT fans freak... How about the bullying of Rose and Rey.

Seems that change is tuff for everyone.

By the way I loved TPM light saber Duels.. I thought the one in ROTS was directed poorly.




****ing epic post. One of the best.

And a great rebuttal to someone who wont watch older films or thinks that older movies suck.

Lol they didn?t take down anything. Stop. And yea a lot of OT fans hate the ST to but only a handful like them like you guys. And I thought it was wrong to bully rose. It?s not her fault. The movies just suck and it?s poor direction . I never said it was her fault or that she deserves to be gone . But I believe the ST is terrible and should be retconned. And again the lighsaber fights are nothing like OT fights I honestly don?t know what your seeing .

Luke fighting Vader in empire looks nothing like any ST lighsaber fight. Also there is no excuse either way. Swinging it like an idiot with a baseball bat isn?t cool. Only kylo did great with it.

The ST has some of the worst duels in the franchise. I can forgive Luke for wildly swinging cause he?s learning and growing but rey isn?t learning or growing she just knows what to do and it sucks .

 

[ironwez20]

Ummmm I plan on living forever.



Its so hard to tell... There is just so much more competition. Try as I might.. I just cant get my youngest into SW and my oldest is a casual fan.

Having said that they both were brought up with an appreciation of B&W movies, films of the 70's and Rey Harryhausen movies.. There is just so much more to do now then fan boy over SW.

You do agree the ROTS is more AOTC then ESB.



I think they mean (I could be wrong) that its a better written script in terms of dialogue. And that the acting / directing and look of the films is better then the PT.

Its hard to get past the acting in the PT and the goofiness of it. Its why I have the scene on Canto bight so much.. Its the most like the PT. I think TLJ is the most like the PT overall in terms of goofiness, poor acting and bad characters.

What do u mean rots is more like aotc?

And it?s hard to get past the writing in the st abd the dialogue is just as bad if not worse than ST.

Mary poppins leia alone is the dumbest thing I?ve ever seen in a Star Wars film . The whole palpatine revelation is just as dumb as anakin turning to the dark side so fast . They are all like the PT but just worse . They have no direction or character development and probably the blandest most forgettable characters in a large trilogy .

 

[xipotec]

Ummmm I plan on living forever.



Its so hard to tell... There is just so much more competition. Try as I might.. I just cant get my youngest into SW and my oldest is a casual fan.

Having said that they both were brought up with an appreciation of B&W movies, films of the 70's and Rey Harryhausen movies.. There is just so much more to do now then fan boy over SW.



What do u mean rots is more like aotc?

And it?s hard to get past the writing in the st abd the dialogue is just as bad if not worse than ST.

Mary poppins leia alone is the dumbest thing I?ve ever seen in a Star Wars film . The whole palpatine revelation is just as dumb as anakin turning to the dark side so fast . They are all like the PT but just worse . They have no direction or character development and probably the blandest most forgettable characters in a large trilogy .

Your. It wrong about a lot of what your saying.

I doubt Rose is a favorite character any more than Dexter or even Jar Jar, that larger who had way more screen time than Rose.

Overall I think most of us can agree on many bad characters.

Agreeing on the good ones is more the issue.

I would say Padme was a crappy character, had a lot of potential, but in the end was wasted on being pretty one dimensional , cause GL cannot write women very well.

As far as the ST goes , Finn had incredible potential, along with Phasma, but seems they got cold feet making Finn the Jedi at the end.


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[ironwez20]

Yea finn should been the main character. Would have made more sense and would of been better.

 

[JAWS]

Lol they didn?t take down anything. Stop.

I see you are still dizzy from the take down.

And yea a lot of OT fans hate the ST to but only a handful like them like you guys. And I thought it was wrong to bully rose. It?s not her fault. The movies just suck and it?s poor direction . I never said it was her fault or that she deserves to be gone . But I believe the ST is terrible and should be retconned. And again the lighsaber fights are nothing like OT fights I honestly don?t know what your seeing . <br>
<br>

Well you know how I feel about both the PT and ST.. I would be fine if they remade the PT and redid the ST and gave us six solid films instead of 2 that I happen to enjoy.

Luke fighting Vader in empire looks nothing like any ST lighsaber fight. Also there is no excuse either way. Swinging it like an idiot with a baseball bat isn?t cool. Only kylo did great with it.
<br>

The ST has some of the worst duels in the franchise. I can forgive Luke for wildly swinging cause he?s learning and growing but rey isn?t learning or growing she just nows what to do and it sucks .[/QUOTE]

Sorry but you gotta watch ROTJ duel. Left parry, right parry, up parry.. Repeat.

I love Empires saber duel... But its not all that complicated.. its really about Vader toying with Luke.

I hate TLJ scene and think that is right up there with original Vader vs Obi wan duel in ANH.

TFA was OK.. Since being OK with Rey and her powers I am good with it.. I think it resembles what the OT did

I love TROS for many of the same reason I love Empires.. I love the setting.. It does have the single worst thing I have seen in any of the Saber duels.. I have yet to se anyone point it out so I am not going to But there is nothing in that Saber duel that makes me think it looks awful accept that one scene.. I do which Rey two hands more.

What do u mean rots is more like aotc?

Meaning that that you blast the other two films in the PT but this film is more like the PT then anything in the OT.. Still bad acting / characters / script and directing.

And it?s hard to get past the writing in the st abd the dialogue is just as bad if not worse than ST.

The worst Dialogue thread tells me differently.. Hell I even styed away from the PT cause its such an easy target.

TLJ has some really bad lines and I will always stand by that its the delivery. If the PT had better acting then some of those lines might not seem so bad. Because the acting in the ST is sooo much better then the PT I think a lot of it come off better.. Accept for anything that Rose and Holdo say.

Mary poppins leia alone is the dumbest thing I?ve ever seen in a Star Wars film . The whole palpatine revelation is just as dumb as anakin turning to the dark side so fast . They are all like the PT but just worse . They have no direction or character development and probably the blandest most forgettable characters in a large trilogy .

I know you know my feelings on the ST. So I wont go into all of that. But for me Ben Solo was a million times more interesting then anyone in the PT. Rey as an actress is just so likable. And I loved Han and Luke in the films.. And I have written a million times why I have no issues with the direction they were taken. So that is exactly 4 more characters I find more interesting in the ST then the PT.

We will just have to agree to disagree on the quality of the two trilogies.. I have major issues with both. I happen to like one film from each trilogy a lot and TROS helped me be accept TFA and ROTS. Thats a good thing.

But I will always have an issue of how the PT looks, how it is acted, how the dialogue is written and how the they are directed. If not for TCW and TROS I dont think I would watch the movies again...

I know if it was not for TROS I would never watch TFA or TLJ ever again also so there is that

I happened to like how they resolved what I found to be the most interesting character in the SW saga since the OT. Ben Solo.. But even he was not enough to save TFA and TLJ.. I needed the redemption he got in TROS and how they ended up handling Rey.. I dont get all upset about prophecies and the fact that she is a girl. I like the old Jedi reaching out to her.

I agree about Palps return being handled as poorly as Anakin's turn.. but that is the difference between the acting and directing in the two films for me.. I could accept the dumbness of Palps return much easier.


In the end.. I like the PT just fine overall.. Like you I have a hard time with ST haters bashing on the ST when they defend the PT like its a masterpiece.

its like you with the PT haters that bash on the PT while ignoring the issues of the ST.

That is why I have always said its about picking your poison. What kind of film do you want. Its like the PT and ST are polar opposites with how they went about telling their stories.

Many are smart and dont pick either.

Me I am dumb and I take a bit of both

 

[ZE_501]

Yea finn should been the main character. Would have made more sense and would of been better.

Such a wasted opportunity.

They were so busy trying to Xerox the OT with a new hat, they ignored the narrative gold they had right in front of them. In the very first shot of the very first trailer.

Rey could have been the new Han Solo, a scoundrel scavenger from the mean streets of Jakku.

 

[TheDucky]

Do I really have to say it!?

Finn was sidelined because of the Chinese market because Disney is a secretly racist company who cares more about pleasing China than they do about being right and telling a great story.

 

[Khev]

Who likes John Boyega more than Daisy Ridley? Making him the lead over her would have been a terrible choice. She is infinitely more likable and fun to watch on screen. Sure he did a good enough job for the part he was given but definitely couldn't have carried the trilogy.

Plus with Finn you'd lose the great dynamic between Rey and Kylo, them both being grandkids of Vader and Palps and all that cool stuff. They definitely made the right call on that.

 

[ZE_501]

Who likes John Boyega more than Daisy Ridley? Making him the lead over her would have been a terrible choice. She is infinitely more likable and fun to watch on screen. Sure he did a good enough job for the part he was given but definitely couldn't have carried the trilogy.

Daisy is super likable and fun to watch, but that doesn't mean Boyega couldn't have done it. His character was knee-capped by bad writing and direction, then summarily sidelined.

Rose slamming into him with her speeder, then sexually assaulting him and gaslighting him, is a great metaphor for what Disney did to that character.

Plus with Finn you'd lose the great dynamic between Rey and Kylo, them both being grandkids of Vader and Palps and all that cool stuff. They definitely made the right call on that.

Sorry what? I can't hear you over the sound of how wrong you are...!

Adam Driver is a great natural actor, he could have great and dynamic chemistry with a coffee mug.

 

[JAWS]

Who likes John Boyega more than Daisy Ridley? Making him the lead over her would have been a terrible choice. She is infinitely more likable and fun to watch on screen. Sure he did a good enough job for the part he was given but definitely couldn't have carried the trilogy.

Plus with Finn you'd lose the great dynamic between Rey and Kylo, them both being grandkids of Vader and Palps and all that cool stuff. They definitely made the right call on that.

Hmmmmm I liked Finn enough.. I would have been interested.

BUT I agree about all the Rey and Kylo stuff. I like that Vader / Palps connection.

 

[JAWS]

Sorry what? I can't hear you over the sound of how wrong you are...!

I dont agree but

Adam Driver is a great natural actor, he could have great and dynamic chemistry with a coffee mug.

I agree and

 

[Khev]

Daisy is super likable and fun to watch, but that doesn't mean Boyega couldn't have done it. His character was knee-capped by bad writing and direction, then summarily sidelined.

Rose slamming into him with her speeder, then sexually assaulting him and gaslighting him, is a great metaphor for what Disney did to that character.

True enough.

Sorry what? I can't hear you over the sound of how wrong you are...!

Adam Driver is a great natural actor, he could have great and dynamic chemistry with a coffee mug.

Also true. I'm so glad we were lucky enough to have him in this true and canon continuation of the SW Saga.