Star Wars: Episode II - Attack of the Clones 15th anniversary

[Khev]

Yeah I too entertained many "what if" scenarios of my own design on how Han's rescue could have gone down. I know my favorite involved a Rebel dropship descending from the sky to extract the heroes at the Sarlacc Pit until Fett sendings it crashing into the sand with all of his rockets and whatnot. That would have been his big moment. But I think I like Wor-Gar's better with him taking out Han.

This discussion of ROTJ and AOTC also prompted me to dig up an old post of mine from May 2000 on alt.fan.starwars. I was a mouthy 20-something SNIKT type saying how I could have done Phantom Menace so much better (obviously at the time there was no AOTC or ROTS.) Here it is:

For starters I would have ditched Tatooine, the Trade Federation, Anakin as a child, the Jedi Council (as it appeared,) and Jar Jar. The Sith would exist as a full-fledged order, but as wizards and assassins, not gung ho martial artists.

A more interesting idea for Palpatine to ascend to power would have been if he had commissioned his Sith followers to turn the Senate upside down with a series of terrifying political assassinations. The Jedi would have been called in to protect the various members of Republic leadership, but as a Senator himself Palpatine would always know who was the least protected and could direct his minions accordingly. When the Council was to the point of borderline hysteria, Palpatine could have pulled the ultimate reversal and slaughtered HIS OWN Sith (possibly by staging a mock priority meeting wired to the max with explosives by none other than everyone's favorite go-to mercenary, Boba Fett.)

With the Sith menace subsided, Palpatine could have asserted himself as Savior of the Republic and greatly discredited the effectiveness of the Jedi. It would have been all too difficult for a young Jedi named Anakin Skywalker to resist the oppurtunity to learn from a REAL master, especially one so proficient in masking evil intentions....

You guys might think that would have sucked (which is fine as I have zero attachment to those old musings) and I was obviously trying to give a young Fett some high profile "disintegrations" but I couldn't help but be intrigued by the fact that Palpatine taking out his own underlings (by Anakin instead of Fett) actually did sort of transpire in ROTS with the Separatists on Mustafar.

 

[Khev]

Again, hints of what Lucas was becoming.

Yes, you can definitely see many seeds of "prequelitis" beginning to manifest in Jedi. Cheaping out with sets and full scale Falcons in favor of horribly unconvincing matte painting 2D backdrops. Going through the motions of repeating the previous film's twist (let's reveal that Vader is someone else's dad! And again, and again!") The goofy aliens who have no business holding their own against Imperial troops and so on.

I actually did kind of write it off for a number of years but have come back around on account of the genuinely satisfying ending and some truly epic ANH/ESB quality moments like Luke going off on Vader at the end of their duel, the funeral pyre, space battle, and top notch production design and music from beginning to end. It's a mixed bag to be sure but I still give it a passing grade (barely.)

 

[Star-Crunch]

How shocking would that have been for Han to die in the first 20 minutes of the film?! Sounds like a German nihilist film.

But then TFA wouldn't hav happened

There's some decent **** in the gladiatorial arena too. That's what makes AOTC so frustrating as the worst Star Wars movie. Some good ideas executed badly.

You know, I feel like if the prequels had better direction, then a lot of the concepts wouldn't be as hated as they are.

 

[Prime Clone]

You know, I feel like if the prequels had better direction, then a lot of the concepts wouldn't be as hated as they are.

Probably why I like them more than most, I can forgive the direction because the concepts are cool.

It's not like Lucas wanted to direct them either; he asked around but none of his friends wanted to do it with him looking over their shoulder.

 

[MegaPrime33]

One of my biggest problems with the prequels was the writing. There were some scenes that were pretty good, and then others that make you roll your eyes and face palm so hard you knock yourself out. A lot of people blame Hayden, but he definitely doesn't deserve all of it. SOme of it of course, but not all of it.

 

[karamazov80]

Yeah I too entertained many "what if" scenarios of my own design on how Han's rescue could have gone down. I know my favorite involved a Rebel dropship descending from the sky to extract the heroes at the Sarlacc Pit until Fett sendings it crashing into the sand with all of his rockets and whatnot. That would have been his big moment. But I think I like Wor-Gar's better with him taking out Han.

This discussion of ROTJ and AOTC also prompted me to dig up an old post of mine from May 2000 on alt.fan.starwars. I was a mouthy 20-something SNIKT type saying how I could have done Phantom Menace so much better (obviously at the time there was no AOTC or ROTS.) Here it is:



You guys might think that would have sucked (which is fine as I have zero attachment to those old musings) and I was obviously trying to give a young Fett some high profile "disintegrations" but I couldn't help but be intrigued by the fact that Palpatine taking out his own underlings (by Anakin instead of Fett) actually did sort of transpire in ROTS with the Separatists on Mustafar.

Sounds like an interesting film, actually. Makes a lot of sense to me for the Sith to be evil wizards first and foremost. But. . .gotta sell Darth Maul and Kylo Ren action figures to smack light sabers together.

Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk

 

[DiFabio]

Well Palpatine was an evil wizard/politician originally. In ROTS, he didn't have a lightsaber. He steals Anakin's when the Jedi go to arrest him. Dunno why they changed it around or gave Palpatine his own, custom made lightsaber last minute. Probably conceived it just to have Palpatine and Yoda duel probably. It's weird, because there are conversations from the 80s where Lucas definitely understands why someone like Yoda would never need or use a lightsaber (as well as Palpatine's line about it being a "Jedi's weapon" with disgust). Seems to me Lucas just succumbed to the marketing machine where giving the heroes and villains weapons make them more toyetic. If you recall, Yoda never had a lightsaber in TPM (but Mace Windu and the others on the council did).

Maul is fine because he was a trained assassin and Dooku was fine because he was a fallen Jedi, so giving them sabers and making them Sidious/Palpatine's muscle made sense atleast. Those two along with Grievous were essentially proto-Vaders representing three sides to Anakin future self (Jedi killer, fallen Jedi, Cyborg). I still think it was a mistake not merging those 2-3 characters into one. Maul, Dooku and Grievous are all intriguing in their own right, but the they don't get enough time to be fleshed out. Should have just chose one along with a Boba Fett/Jango Fett type lackey who would eventually be betrayed to make way for Vader.

 

[RIDDICK]

Maul, Dooku and Grievous are all intriguing in their own right, but the they don't get enough time to be fleshed out.

Eh... Just watch "Clone Wars", Dooku and Grievous are great there. Maul... he's fun too.

 

[DiFabio]

I only watch da movies.

Then again, that is a good point that maybe Star Wars has always been meant to be enjoyed as a multimedia event.

 

[RIDDICK]

Exactly. Again, Kyle Katarn is my fav SW character. God, how I hate Nu-Wars and Disney canon...
I love "Clone Wars" tho. It's far from great and 1/3 of the episodes is trash but the rest is pretty good.
Even kid Boba gets some development. A clumsy one but still better than nothing from da mofies.

 

[a-dev]

I liked that all through ESB no one addressed Fett by name. It was like only Vader knew who he was (though the deleted scene below says otherwise.)

How have I never seen that?

But yeah as Difabio said, that would have been woefully out of place in the final escape scene. The line delivery from Carrie in particular is way too calm for what's supposed to be going on.

Han looks genuinely scared... and then the reuse his same line over another cut... and then he turns with his cane and hits the most notorious bounty hunter in the galaxy... who proceeds to scream like a little *****

But what I would have liked to see is...

rather than screaming like a little *****, Fett swiftly regains control, spins in midair and shoots Han right between the eyes, letting his limp body fall into Chewie's arms. Han would be dead -- Harrison happy -- Boba would have a cool moment -- everyone would be happy -- and that movie would suddenly become legendary.

Damn. That's Game of Thrones calibre stuff.

 

[Khev]

Sounds like an interesting film, actually. Makes a lot of sense to me for the Sith to be evil wizards first and foremost.

Thanks. Yeah, I was quite disappointed with George's "make them all rhyme" approach. I know everyone has their own preferences on how different backstories and things should go but when I watched the OT I never took them as just repeating the same events and characters that had existed a generation ago. I always felt like I was meant to be watching something that was previously unprecedented in the galaxy.

For thousands of years they had Jedi and then this *one* guy helps screw it all up by taking the name Darth Vader and using his "Jedi weapon" against his own kind before suffering a fluke accident that puts him on life support. I was very much looking forward to seeing how such a unique situation might play out. But then like with Jango Fett George has to create all these "proto-Vaders" that steal the real Vader's thunder all in the name of taking the easy road and simply copying--oops I mean "rhyming with" the OT.

"Darth" stops being unique. Everyone gets that name. Red lightsaber no longer unique. All Sith use those. Fallen Jedi. Not unique, Dooku did it first. Cyborg, not unique. Grievous is the trailblazer. Every single prequel villain other than Nute Gunray is just some "proto-OT character." Why not go crazy and make icons as diverse and amazing as what we got in the OT? Sandpeople, Greedo, Tarkin, Vader, Fett, Jabba, and the Emperor were nothing alike. Everyone new villain the heroes faced in the OT was this unique and amazing thing. But then in the PT it's all about copying those exact same archetypes. So disappointing in that regard but as has been said many times now that's obviously all water under the bridge at this point.

Battle droids were a unique aspect of the PT as were Gungans and pod racers. Yes all three are also problematic in their own right but at least George kept the spirit of introducing something wildly different with all of those. And as I've said before Darth Maul was quite cool for his part and his devilish look plus double saber was at least a bit divergent from the otherwise familiar "black outfit red saber" look all shared by Vader, Maul, Dooku, and now Kylo.

 

[Star-Crunch]

I liked that all through ESB no one addressed Fett by name. It was like only Vader knew who he was (though the deleted scene below says otherwise.)

Yike, glad that cut
"Poor Han"

 

[DiFabio]

Greedo was originally in the prequels too!

 

[Khev]

How have I never seen that?

But yeah as Difabio said, that would have been woefully out of place in the final escape scene. The line delivery from Carrie in particular is way too calm for what's supposed to be going on.

Yes, when you think about the tension and music of their escape at that moment all the exposition just wouldn't have worked at all. And in a rare flub Carrie even stumbled over reciting Boba Fett's name. We didn't need to hear that Lando put a tracking device on the carbonite block since they all knew that Fett was going to Tatooine anyway.

 

[Khev]

Greedo was originally in the prequels too!

I know.

And the ROTS art book shows concepts of young Han being raised by wookiees and running around Kashyyyk.

 

[karamazov80]

Greedo was originally in the prequels too!

Amazing.

 

[Star-Crunch]

Greedo was originally in the prequels too!

Ah yes. That should have been left in. It would have really elevated the movie. It really shows the inner turmoil of Greedo and why he turned to his scum and villainy ways. Would have made for a great character arc.

 

[Khev]

Ever see Once Were Warriors? Great movie, he was very good in that, though I think he is a bit limited as far as it comes to range.

Oops, missed this yesterday. No I haven't seen Once Were Warriors. I remember it getting some praise when it came out but didn't see it and then it just completely dropped off the radar.

As for Boba Fett, as I mentioned to a-dev a few months back I know he was never "all that" for those of you too young to see the OT each year they were released so you never had five years of Boba Fett being this mysterious badass until finally going out like a chump. If your parents just rented the trilogy on VHS for you in the mid-80's or later then to you he would have been this cool looking guy in one movie that before you know it is dying stupidly before your eyes before he could really imprint as anything else. I'm sure I would have been hard pressed to think otherwise had that been my experience as well.

But for us who had seen teases of him in various publications, media, and toys starting as early as 1978 we were already hanging on his every word by the time ESB came out. And he didn't disappoint! And then we got to savor ESB all of 1980, 81, and 82.

He was such a fan favorite that just seeing him in Jabba's palace had us all going "OMG he nodded at Princess Leia! Did you see that!? He nodded!"

And then on Jabba's Sail Barge that effing JET PACK that we'd been playing with on our stupid plastic toys for the last *half decade* finally ignited and shot him into the air! No one in any modern film used jetpacks, it was a big deal!

*more fainting*

Even his silly death was something that a lot of us blew off because at least it milked more of his jetpack. We were eating up every second of the character we could (no pun intended.) It wasn't that we thought his death was becoming or anything but we just didn't dwell on it. Then as the years went on and new generations of people started to watch the OT with different eyes and no spacing between the films a lot of perceptions and opinions about him began to change. Apparently people were enjoying him in the EU comics and novels but I never read any of those. Then the SE's happened which made him even more of a lackey and of course AOTC which was the true rock bottom moment for the character.

 

[Wor-Gar]

No one in any modern film used jetpacks, it was a big deal!

Uh, no one...?

*cue Bond theme*