R.I.P. Charlie Hebdo

[**16k**]

I'd say it's a tenuously peaceful coexistence. Since about 2006 (didn't you guys have a problem with cars spontaneously combusting that summer?), I think most honest people would characterize it similarly.

Well, even though there are similarities, I don't think it's exactly similar. What happened in 2006 in the French suburbs ended up looking like racial tensions, and part of it was true, but at the bottom of things, I think it was more akin to social tensions. I've live in a suburb like that for 32 years before moving, and those are places where unemployment is rampant. Of course, a lot of immigrants also live there because inner cities are too expensive. So it ends up looking like racial tensions, but IMHO, what happened was similar to what happened in Fergusson recently. Racism is the apex of a more, underlying, social issue.

Not only is education important, but Muslim leadership. In the recent Sydney siege that left two hostages dead, the most prominent mosque in the city held vigils for the slain. Muslims were very visible in laying flowers at the site. This must have taken some courage on their part. Unfortunately, moderate muslims can't just sit back and set a quiet example anymore - they must actively reach out to mainstream society so that when these events do happen, it is the extremists who are marginalised, and not the wider Muslim community. Australia is doing a reasonable (not perfect) job of this, which isn't bad for a country with the world's most populous muslim country just across the strait.

France is home to what, 5 million muslims? Hopefully this event will galvanise French society and not rupture it.

You are right. Everything will hinge on the attitude of the Islamic community in the next few days, though most have already condemned the attack. But I think they need to be visible, in marches and commemorations, because the average French guy is not necessarily bright. And amalgams are easy to do. You are correct about the approximation number of Muslims in France. Yet, a recent survey showed that a lot of French people thought at least 30 to 50 percent of the population was Muslim. Racism is steadily growing since 9/11 and I fear that the recent attacks will do nothing to appease things. Only recently, the media reported three attacks on Mosques. And were just day1 after the attack...

Oh, and just to be clear, I'm not a Muslim, I'm an atheist, a category, which, I think, is the most represented with Catholicism in the French society...

 

[devilof76]

Well, even though there are similarities, I don't think it's exactly similar. What happened in 2006 in the French suburbs ended up looking like racial tensions, and part of it was true, but at the bottom of things, I think it was more akin to social tensions. I've live in a suburb like that for 32 years before moving, and those are places where unemployment is rampant. Of course, a lot of immigrants also live there because inner cities are too expensive. So it ends up looking like racial tensions, but IMHO, what happened was similar to what happened in Fergusson recently. Racism is the apex of a more, underlying, social issue.

Fergusson was racial in the sense that a group of people who identify themselves by race, and reinforce that identity through conflict with those they do not include in their identity, took advantage of an opportunity to vindicate their antagonism.

 

[anaking13]

Merci à la communeauté des "freaks" de s'associer à l'infamie qui à touché la France ce 07 janvier 2015. La place est au deuil et à l'unité de tous pour le respect de la liberté de la presse, du droit à la caricature et dire non à l'obscurantisme et à la barbarie.
WE ARE CHARLIE
Thank you to the "freaks" community" to be associated with the infamy that affected France at this 07 January 2015. The place is in mourning and unity of all for the respect of freedom of the press, the right to caricature and say no to obscurantism and barbarism.

 

[thecapn]

I don't get offended easily, I'm a generally easy-going person, LOL. And I don't hold grudges or anything like that.

I also tend not to get to the point I'm ACTUALLY trying to make. You folks are right that the Crusades were a long time ago, for example. I get that.

The point I was TRYING to get to is that these are the actions of a small group of fanatics. They should be held responsible for their actions. If there's a local religious leader advocating violence, they should be held accountable too. And our hatred should be directed against the people who committed the crime, and those that feel that it was, in some twisted logic, an "ok" thing to do.

That doesn't extend to every Muslim across the world, though, and indicating in any way that Islam as a WHOLE should be blasted is just building hatred. 16k has it right that if we're not careful this can build even MORE racial tensions in France. But it's not just the job of the Islamic community to come out and condemn the attack. We all need to condemn retaliation against people who were not involved, Muslim or not.

And regarding Fergusson, that's a great example - one group of people decided to take out their frustration with the police in the town by rioting and destroying the businesses of their neighbors and hurting the town that they live in. That's misdirected anger if I ever heard it!

 

[a-dev]

You are right. Everything will hinge on the attitude of the Islamic community in the next few days, though most have already condemned the attack. But I think they need to be visible, in marches and commemorations

I'd like to see that actually, not just statements of condemnation from prominent Muslims but actual worldwide anti-fanatic, anti-Taliban, anti-ISIS marches from normal Muslims. I dunno, maybe they do it already and I'm just not aware enough.

 

[**16k**]

In all fairness, they do. I was just watching the news a minute ago and there are many of them among the crowd.

But it's true that many of them must feel caught between a rock and a hard place. I'm happy I'm not in their shoes right now...

 

[The Ween]

I'm not even going to attempt to comment on this. LeJuan speaks for me.

 

[Lejuan]

I'm not even going to attempt to comment on this. LeJuan speaks for me.

I think I'm done commenting for me as well.

Apart from the obvious - the savages must be caught.

 

[a-dev]

Not much to say anymore that hasn't already been said is there.

See yez for the next one I guess.

 

[YankeesFanboy]

​

 

[CallMeTheDoctor]

Damn that's some powerful stuff.

 

[Star Puffs]

Powerful collection cartoons, YFB. Thanks for posting those.

It sickens me that most English-speaking papers of record are too craven to republish the original cartoons.

 

[Lejuan]

Powerful collection cartoons, YFB. Thanks for posting those.

It sickens me that most English-speaking papers of record are too craven to republish the original cartoons.

The free press is a fundamental component of democracy and is next to useless if editorialising is in some way held hostage to external interests and agendas. Free-world citizens must support freedom of the press however and wherever they can.

Stephane Charbonnier and his staff are heroes for having stood up for democratic ideals we so often take for granted.

 

[devilof76]

these are the actions of a small group of fanatics.

No, they're not.

 

[Lejuan]

No, they're not.

I've certainly never heard of sovereign nations and millions of adherents described as a small group of fanatics before.

 

[devilof76]

...from a certain point of view?

 

[Lejuan]

 

[devilof76]

 

[devilof76]

I think this one's my favorite.

 

[Lejuan]

...and you won't have any Buddhists sending you death threats