New System In The Works

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hydrobud

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https://news.cnet.com/8301-10797_3-10202688-235.html?tag=mncol

SAN FRANCISCO, California (CNET) -- Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo, look out. Your traditional video game console business model may be in danger.


Popular video games like the "Grand Theft Auto" series may soon be available on a new system.

It's too early to tell how much danger, of course, but a start-up called OnLive announced a brand-new game distribution system Monday night that, if it works as planned, could change the games game forever.

OnLive, which was started by WebTV founder Steve Perlman and former Eidos CEO Mike McGarvey, is aiming to launch a system -- seven years in the works -- that will digitally distribute first-run, AAA games from publishers like Electronic Arts, Take-Two, Ubisoft, Atari, and others, all at the same time as those titles are released into retail channels.

The system is designed to allow players to stream on-demand games at the highest quality onto any Intel-based Mac or PC running XP or Vista, regardless of how powerful the computer.

The system will also stream games directly to a TV via a small plug-in device, and players can use a custom wireless controller as well as VoIP headsets in conjunction with it.

Based here in San Francisco, OnLive timed its formal unveiling to this week's Game Developers Conference, where it will be showcasing the technology and 16 initial games it will launch with.

The service is currently in a closed beta, but is expected to go into a public beta this summer, and to launch this winter.

According to Perlman, OnLive's technology will make it possible to stream the games in such a manner--high quality, no matter what kind of system the user has--by virtue of a series of patented and patent-pending compression technologies. And instead of requiring users to download the games, OnLive will host them all and stream them from a series of the highest-end servers. Users will have only to download a 1MB plug-in to get the service up and running.

OnLive is hoping to capture a significant portion of the video game market share. In February, the industry posted one of its strongest months ever, with total sales of $1.47 billion, up 10 percent from a year ago. And in February, the Xbox, PS3 and Wii accounted for total sales of 1.42 million units.

An intended benefit of this infrastructure, Perlman and McGarvey explained, is that users will be able to play streamed games via OnLive with no lag, so long as their Internet connections meet minimum thresholds. For standard-definition play, that would mean a minimum 1.5 Mbps connection, and for high-def, 5 Mbps.

That's obviously an essential feature, as it's hard to imagine anyone paying for a service like OnLive, no matter what games are on offer, if the user experience is inadequate. But the company promises that as long as users have the requisite minimum hardware, operating systems, and Internet connections, they should be able to have seamless play.

The upshot of this infrastructure model, Perlman said, is that OnLive is somewhat future-proof, meaning that players won't have to upgrade anything to keep on playing games on the system years into the future. Instead, the upgrades will happen on the back-end, with the company regularly boosting the power of the servers it uses to host and stream the games.

And while demos always have to be taken with a grain of salt, CNET News did see a real-time presentation of OnLive on at least two different computers and on a HD TV. Game play was as smooth and lag-free as advertised

So far, OnLive has yet to make its business model public, but what seems likely is some form of subscription service, where players will pay a monthly access fee and then pay additional costs, depending on whether they want to play games once, or buy them for permanent play.

The company also said that it will probably offer free trials of some or all of the games it offers, allowing consumers to decide whether they want to buy. OnLive recognizes that some players may use those trials as a way of deciding whether to buy such games from traditional retail stores, but Perlman and McGarvey suggested that as long as people are interacting with the OnLive system, they'll be happy.

It's clear that OnLive is modeling its system at least somewhat after Microsoft's hit Xbox Live service. So fans of multiplayer games won't be on their own. Rather, they'll have full access to multiplayer features of games built for them. And another interesting social feature is one that will allow users to digitally watch others play games in real time. The company thinks that users will find it exciting to watch the best players in action, even if they themselves are only kibitzing.

Perlman said that the concept of spectating in online game systems is, in and of itself, not new, but that OnLive presents the first time players will be able to look in on what others are playing without owning the games themselves.

Another social feature in the Xbox Live mold is what are called "brag clips." These are essentially 15-second replays of game action that players can share with friends if they want to show off their prowess. This is possible, Perlman said, because OnLive is continually recording the last 15 seconds of action.

All told, McGarvey said, OnLive offers a full suite of standard social features including friends, clans, rankings, leader boards, tournaments and more.

From the outset, OnLive isn't partnering with any of the first-party publishers--Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo, meaning that franchises like "Halo" or "Zelda" won't be available. And that makes sense, since those companies are hardly likely to want to sign up with a company whose very technology may obviate their longstanding business models.

That means, Perlman and McGarvey acknowledged, that many players who sign up for OnLive's service will still maintain their consoles, and continue to buy games for them. At least for the rest of the current generation of machines, they said. But come the next generation, all bets are off, they said.

And for the nine--to date--third-party publishers who have committed to being involved, McGarvey said, OnLive presents a much more efficient and profitable distribution model than the standard retail structure. That's because the system is all digital, cutting down on physical distribution costs, and because it is designed to eradicate piracy and second-hand sales, both of which are banes of the publishers' existence.

Indeed, McGarvey said that OnLive has gotten strong commitments of titles from the nine publishers. That means, added Perlman, that the planned launch this winter could be accompanied by the most titles of any new gaming system launch in history.

In addition, McGarvey said publishers are eager for the kind of raw data that OnLive can provide about players' usage of the games, including whether they like or dislike games, how much they play, how they play and so on. That data is hard for publishers to collect with traditional consoles, he argued.

Clearly, OnLive has set an ambitious goal: dethroning the console makers as the game industry's kings. And as is always the case with brand-new and publicly unavailable technology, it is far too early to know whether the company or the service can live up to that goal. But if its demo is any indication, OnLive is definitely onto something, and given that the company has been in stealth mode for so many years, it's possible that the console makers will be caught off guard.
 
That PR crap was too long to read. I'll consider this new platform legitimate when I see it and the reactions of high profile devs and producers.
 
It's not really a new platform, it's streaming games to a PC and then allowing you to stream that to a TV and use controllers.

I don't think Microsoft, Sony, or Nintendo should feel the least bit threatened.

Now, if it were Apple or Sega, then that would be interesting.
 
I personally hate going all digital.....I just don't trust all my games being digital saves on a hard drive. I like to have the physical disc because I know the source material is always there to read off of.

Your right darthviper, I don't think Sony, Microsoft or Nintendo should be worried about this or feel threatened.
 
Why does everyone want to go to digital distribution? :dunno

I don't mind it so much, but right now it's not a good idea. While hard drives are cheap they could get filled up quickly with games (PS3 owners). Plus there's the problem of actually downloading a game. Fast internet doesn't exactly work great for everyone, and if they start distributing everything through the internet it's not going to work for long--they expect by the year 2012 that there will be so many people with high-speed service that the lines won't be able to handle all the data and the internet will start going slower. So until they can get some better Internet connections (fiber optic, satellite) then it's not a good plan to rely on digital distribution.
 
It's not really a new platform, it's streaming games to a PC and then allowing you to stream that to a TV and use controllers.

I don't think Microsoft, Sony, or Nintendo should feel the least bit threatened.

Now, if it were Apple or Sega, then that would be interesting.

yeah i'd love a Dreamcast 2. and didn't this concept already fail??? i remember something called the "Phantom" that was in development during the PS2 and Xbox days and it wasn't going to have any physical media...all direct download on the the machine itself through the internet. of course it was supposed to have a huge hard drive, but ultimately fell through because of lack of funding.
 
I just read this. Its streaming through this box instead of a console, the thing is if your Internet dips then you get kicked off. While that happens with Live, you can with that play the console offline...that won't be a possibility with this. Honestly in practicality this won't effect the consoles at all, what it WILL do is add more online gamers, those who have strong connections that is.
 
Found a couple GDC09 demonstration videos of OnLive, a new digi distribution system. I still haven't read the long PR fluff article in OP's post, but watching these videos probably amounts to the same info:

<embed src='https://videomedia.ign.com/ev/ev.swf' flashvars='isStandAlone=true&highRes_ID=2798474&lowRes_ID=2798479&article_ID=965599&downloadURL=https://pcmovies.ign.com/pc/video/article/965/965599/onlive_gdc09_playing_prince_032509_flvlowwide.flv&allownetworking="all%"' type='application/x-shockwave-flash' width='433' height='360'></embed>

<embed src='https://videomedia.ign.com/ev/ev.swf' flashvars='isStandAlone=true&highRes_ID=2795852&lowRes_ID=2795848&article_ID=965599&downloadURL=https://pcmovies.ign.com/pc/video/article/965/965599/onlive_demostream_032309_flvlowwide.flv&allownetworking="all%"' type='application/x-shockwave-flash' width='433' height='360'></embed>
 
No, you're not actually downloading anything beyond the initial OnLive installation client. OnLive streams data to your pc, there is no downloading of data for installation or anything like that. The actual game data is held server side on OnLive's own hardware (which will constantly be updated with new tech to keep up with advancements in gaming), so it's like playing on someone else's pc from your own.

Here's a thorough breakdown of the service by 1up.com:

Imagine a world in which you can stream games directly onto your television or computer at 60 frames per second, with graphical settings at maximum. Well, OnLive is setting out to create that world, introducing a new service that could theoretically eliminate the need for high-end PCs and consoles altogether.

OnLive's founders recently gave us a basic demonstration of the on-demand gaming service, which utilizes cloud computing to stream games directly into virtually any PC or Mac. Steve Perlman (founder, CEO, and CTO) explains that his experience on both the Apple Quicktime and the Microsoft WebTV teams has helped develop a new type of "interactive video compression." Essentially, OnLive's servers will be running the game, and sending a videostream through your Net connection. In turn, your controller/button inputs, are sent via your Net connection to OnLive's servers. Perlman states that OnLive will always be updating its hardware, and as long as you have a Net connection, a display, and an input device (existing gamepads as well as keyboard/mouse are supported), you can play any of its games. If you're playing it on a PC or a Mac, you'll use a small (Perlman estimates it will be smaller than a megabyte) browser plugin; if you want to play it on your TV, you'll be using the OnLive MicroConsole, which has HDMI, USB, Ethernet, and power inputs/outputs. Without directly naming the Phantom, Perlman remarked that OnLive is different than previous attempts at online/downloadable game services, by virtue of the video compression technology (since you never actually download a game to your computer/system; in theory, games can be loaded and played in seconds due to only video and input information traveling through your broadband connection).

From the demonstration we've seen (watching and playing Crysis and GRID), the gameplay was, honestly, smooth and relatively lag-free. Though, we did notice the occasional framerate hiccup (it is in a very private beta, after all). OnLive will require a 1.5 megabytes-per-second connection for standard-definition video (480p), and a 5.0 mbps connection needed for HD (720p). As for the user's hardware requirements, for this demo, Perlman ran Crysis on the OnLive MicroConsole, while COO Mike McGarvey joined Perlman's Crysis match via his MacBook Air.

Naturally, having beaten the "one console future" drum for quite some time now, Silicon Knights founder Denis Dyack had something to say about this. Writing on Venturebeat, he praised the cloud model, saying that the end result is a "remarkably positive shift for those who create original games."

"This model is attractive because it eliminates piracy 100 percent, since the consumer does not have anything to copy and needs only to log into the Cloud to interact. Technology is commoditizing the value of hardware to zero and a unified platform will be the likely result," Dyack wrote. "Following this logic to its end, the implication is that hardware could be removed altogether. What hardware one runs behind the wall of the Cloud is unimportant; only what you are transmitting counts. Thus, the ultimate game console in the Cloud model is no console at all."

Several publishers are already jumping on board the new service, with OnLive confirming that Atari, Eidos, Codemasters, Electronic Arts, Epic, Take-Two, THQ, Ubisoft and Warner Bros. Interactive Entertainment are coming along for the ride (we also noticed BioWare, Pandemic, and even Rockstar Games logos during the demonstration, but those studios' "mother companies" are already part of the official list). With that kind of publishing muscle behind the service, Perlman is promising that they will "make available the top, high-end titles at the same window they're released at retail." He also commented that OnLive will also pursue deals with several indie and casual game developers.

Perlman outlined OnLive's basic roadmap, with the service undergoing internal beta currently, followed by an external beta sometime during the summer and a full launch around winter. At the moment, Perlman and McGarvey won't discuss any specifics on the business model; only that it will be a subscription service "similar to Xbox Live." We're extremely curious about this venture, and will update you as it develops.

An OnLive Beta will be made available this summer. You can sign up for it here:

https://www.vg247.com/2009/03/25/onlive-beta-sign-ups-online-now/

I don't know what to think of OnLive. Valve's Steam application has done this with user settings and options (saved and carried over from pc to pc by user name), but doing this for games could be revolutionary, but I'm skeptical. The idea is that it'll eliminate the need to constantly buy or upgrade pc hardware or consoles every few years.
 
^ Absolutely right. OnLive will require at least a 5.0mbps connection to allow 720p picture quality for games. Many broadband users can manage 5mbps, but a steady 5mbps? That's a lower contingent of people.

There are many issues facing OnLive. Honestly, I think it could use a couple more years in the oven.

I just read a very detailed impressions article by Adrian Covert on Gizmodo. He tries Bioshock on OnLive and he says it's not perfect:

OnLive Streaming Games: Hands-On Impressions

I think there are two main concerns running through the heads of anyone that's heard of this thing: a) Latency between your control inputs and the action on the screen and b) picture quality. While this system is still in pre-beta, and both of these aspects are inferior compared to a home console or PC experience, I still think OnLive will serve well the gamer who doesn't want to kick down the cash for the latest hardware.

I played Bioshock using the PC setup, which involved an average looking Dell laptop, and a Logitech control pad. The game was running 50 miles away on a server in Santa Clara, and load times are pretty much the same as running the game on your PC.

Once I got started with gameplay, I noticed the slightest bit of lag between controller and screen. Just enough to not feel natural, but hardly enough to really detract from gameplay. Some environments (especially indoor) were more responsive than others to the point that you barely noticed any latency. Definitely not for the competitive gamer, but for the guy who just wants to play for a few hours on the weekend, it's fine.

As far as picture quality goes, there is noticeable compression and artifacting that takes place. When fire and water effects were dominating the screen in Bioshock, you pretty much saw squares everywhere. OnLive doesn't mince words about it, saying it comes with the territory, but they do expect the quality to get better over time as they hammer out the kinks. Some of the indoor textures and environments looked pretty close to running on your own console, with minor dropoffs in sharpness and clarity. The batch of screenshots below doesn't tell the entire story, but it gives a basic idea of what to expect.

I also noticed some choppiness in the framerate, but whether or not it was caused by the streaming, or the server, is unknown. As for the palm-sized, set top version of OnLive, I didn't get to actually take it for a spin, but from watching, I'd say performance was about the same compared to using a PC.

OnLive says that when they roll the service out, they plan to have data centers near every major American metropolis, which is somewhat vague, but ensures that you won't be all running off a server on the west coast. Whether or not they'll be able to support a national rollout is unknown, since it's still early in development. But OnLive seems like a gaming solution worthy of our attention. [OnLive]

Lag on control inputs and choppy gameplay from (as EVILFACE said) buffering and connections quirks? That's a problem.
 
Do any of you think this will even be successful? If it even gets released, just reading all this makes me think it might not be even worth it for them to release this service.
 
I don't mind it so much, but right now it's not a good idea. While hard drives are cheap they could get filled up quickly with games (PS3 owners). Plus there's the problem of actually downloading a game. Fast internet doesn't exactly work great for everyone, and if they start distributing everything through the internet it's not going to work for long--they expect by the year 2012 that there will be so many people with high-speed service that the lines won't be able to handle all the data and the internet will start going slower. So until they can get some better Internet connections (fiber optic, satellite) then it's not a good plan to rely on digital distribution.


Isn't there a new Internet infrastructure in the works? I read about it while back.
 
OnLive has announced that its cloud- based game streaming service wil launch in the 48 contiguous US states on available to PC and Mac owners for a monthly service fee of $14.95. Each game purchase and rental will carry a charge on top of the base subscription Steve Perlman, CEO of OnLive, confirmed that the final version of the OnLive"experience" will be demoed at E3 2010, which kicks off just two days before the service goes live. As for the whereabouts of its "micro-console," Perlman could only say that it will launch at a later date to be announced in the coming months. He offered a quick look ahead at some planned upgrades to the service, the biggest of which is 1080p support at 60 frames-per-second "as the bandwidth becomes available." OnLive is going to waive the first three months of its service fee for the first 25,000 people who register for the service.
https://i.joystiq.com/2010/03/10/onlive-launching-june-17-for-pc-and-mac-15-per-month-service-f/


~~I didn't see an initial price for the hardware, but IMO game fees on top of the monthly subscription fees?? No thanks.
 
I like this idea simply for the fact that it takes one machine to play all sorts of games. The game industry needs to get away from publishers making games for multiple consoles.

Now that online gaming is the norm, it's time to stop segregating each other because 10 million people have 360 and 10 million have PS3.

Let Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo keep their own IP's and just make games along with the other software giants, but lets all play from the same source.

Imagine how many more "gamers" there would be if people only had to choose one device to game on.

Some would say that is how PC's are, but you have to upgrade them all the time to get the most out of new games.

This new service sounds like a good idea to me.
 
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