MARVEL' S Falcon and the Winter Soldier

[The Buffinator]

Probably that "cameo":

Spoiler:

The woman speaking to Walker outside the courtroom is Madame Hydra.

Yeah that was the first thing that crossed my mind, but

Spoiler:

as Hydra is basically defunct now I suspect they're changing up her comic character for the MCU. I'm not up on all the other criminal organizations in the Marvel comics, but I read that she could be a Leviathan sleeper agent, part of J.A.N.U.S. (?) or getting ready to run the Thunderbolts. If it's the last one, we could see more of Zemo.

 

[e30ernest]

Yeah that was the first thing that crossed my mind, but

Spoiler:

as Hydra is basically defunct now I suspect they're changing up her comic character for the MCU. I'm not up on all the other criminal organizations in the Marvel comics, but I read that she could be a Leviathan sleeper agent, part of J.A.N.U.S. (?) or getting ready to run the Thunderbolts. If it's the last one, we could see more of Zemo.

Yes, probably the last one especially since:

Spoiler:

Zemo is being sent to the Raft. Which is odd... I expected the Wakandans to imprison him to somewhere they control.

 

[Sassafras]

Maybe not helped by being up at 3:30 in the morning, but - this episode wasn't for me. I'm all for character development but:

Spoiler:

1) Too political and also too repetitive; one issue I had with IW is that Thanos explains his thinking 3 times...IMO once for a
message is plenty. IMO same mistake happened here with Isaiah.

Feel like if I wanna watch a documentary on issues I'll do that, but while comics have always dealt with current issues felt like this
show laid it on way too thick; at the same time - nice photography and all; but it was dull. Reminded me of the dragging parts of
Age of Ultron, another movie I think that needed an editor to tighten it up. (Also it's a bit much to see Sam lecturing Bucky when we're talking about a guy who was tortured and frozen for decades - er, Sam was a counselor???? WTF.)

2) The beginning fight was alright; guess I can buy Walker having "perfect" serum he could take on Bucky and Sam but for
me it wasn't really believable, especially Bucky. Also reminded me a lot of the Civil War end fight. But there good stuff - it was OK.
Some real good moments with Sam wiping the blood.

3) Think this show suffers without Bucky, Zemo, Ayo on screen, tho that may be cheap favoritism for me. Like I think it was a missed opportunity
for Ayo to at least say SOMETHING snarky when Bucky hauls off and asks a favor (the Wakandan tech thing is cool tho, nice handling of what
would be a glaring hole. So guess Bucky won't be in the next BP, either - too bad, that would have been cool. I'd pay a lot to see Bucky and M'Baku interacting).

Some highlights for me tho - even if IMO Spellman is getting too into the weeds/self indulgent, he's a heck of a writer. Russell continues to amaze as
Walker IMO practically radiates being around the bend. Baltroc. Glad they showed Sam training, and that he's not that great with the shield at
first.

IMO this is definitely Sam's episode and he's being pushed hard as Captain America, which isn't necessarily a bad thing; but with only 6 episodes think some of this should have been part of an extended edition. At least it puts a lot of pieces in place for hopefully an amazing finale - which I hope ends (even if it's repetitive) with Zemo escaping - he's too good to not be on the loose.

Maybe I'll feel differently re-watching and not at 4 in the morning.

 

[Chakor]

I guess you can also count me in the minority who weren't too impressed with episode 5. Enjoyed episodes 3 and 4 a lot more.

 

[matticus]

This was easily the worst episode. A bunch of race guilt tripping was laid on so thick I couldn't enjoy the episode. It just lead back around to what was covered in previous episodes like with Isiah and the boat issues. To me it is the "cost-effective" episode where you reuse previous sets/locations and do a bunch of talking. Overall arc wise, the writing was just going in circles and only a few moments actually was leading to something. And Zemo....wtf!

Spoiler:

The Zemo was the gut punch for me. Total waste. I would like to hope that he has some type of scheme going, but I don't see it right now. With the raft potentially loading up, Marvel is totally going New Avengers plot with the raft breakout happening. Was wondering if they would do a Madame Hydra since Fox did it with Viper in The Wolverine. I hope that leads to The Thunderbolts or a Serpent Society. This final episode better be good, as the series has been a big meh for the most part.

 

[Sassafras]

This was easily the worst episode. A bunch of race guilt tripping was laid on so thick I couldn't enjoy the episode. It just lead back around to what was covered in previous episodes like with Isiah and the boat issues. To me it is the "cost-effective" episode where you reuse previous sets/locations and do a bunch of talking. Overall arc wise, the writing was just going in circles and only a few moments actually was leading to something. And Zemo....wtf!

Spoiler:

The Zemo was the gut punch for me. Total waste. I would like to hope that he has some type of scheme going, but I don't see it right now. With the raft potentially loading up, Marvel is totally going New Avengers plot with the raft breakout happening. Was wondering if they would do a Madame Hydra since Fox did it with Viper in The Wolverine. I hope that leads to The Thunderbolts or a Serpent Society. This final episode better be good, as the series has been a big meh for the most part.

In my head I've started thinking of certain film moments that I think are the writer or director being self indulgent and usually overdoing a message as "pulling a Whedon". Generally has a split opinion from the fan base. But it does cover a writer or director who I think is talented but forgets to self-edit and/or forgets that less is more. For me includes:

1) Whedon Ultron farmhouse stuff and NatBruce;
2) IW girl power scene;
3) Insulting comments in BP and IW
4) Joe Russo in IW;
5) Captain Marvel and the Avengers name (and a whole lot of other stuff)
5) And now FWS; as well as

Spoiler:

what felt like a heck of a lot of time fixing the boat; and I don't know why. Was it to show Bucky being in a normal setting doing normal things for a LONG time? Bonding with Sam? Some sort of statement about a white guy doing manual labor? A tourism commercial for coastal Louisiana? Fodder for the Tumblr crowd (this guy can break your spine but look, he's around kids! Again....)
WTF.

And these are two of my favorite MCU characters so I don't get with Sam sounding patronizing and insensitive IMO. WTF. And DEFINITELY more Zemo is needed.

But, for me that's what the fast forward and skip buttons are for. Even better, with a series u can skip entire episodes.

 

[chrisstbh]

Wont be able to take Sam seriously as "Captain America" unless he takes the serum, which he wont.

 

[jye4ever]

In my head I've started thinking of certain film moments that I think are the writer or director being self indulgent and usually overdoing a message as "pulling a Whedon". Generally has a split opinion from the fan base. But it does cover a writer or director who I think is talented but forgets to self-edit and/or forgets that less is more. For me includes:

1) Whedon Ultron farmhouse stuff and NatBruce;
2) IW girl power scene;
3) Insulting comments in BP and IW
4) Joe Russo in IW;
5) Captain Marvel and the Avengers name (and a whole lot of other stuff)
5) And now FWS; as well as

Spoiler:

what felt like a heck of a lot of time fixing the boat; and I don't know why. Was it to show Bucky being in a normal setting doing normal things for a LONG time? Bonding with Sam? Some sort of statement about a white guy doing manual labor? A tourism commercial for coastal Louisiana? Fodder for the Tumblr crowd (this guy can break your spine but look, he's around kids! Again....)
WTF.

And these are two of my favorite MCU characters so I don't get with Sam sounding patronizing and insensitive IMO. WTF. And DEFINITELY more Zemo is needed.

But, for me that's what the fast forward and skip buttons are for. Even better, with a series u can skip entire episodes.

I honestly think you might have missed the entire point of Sam’s conversation with Isaiah which was Sam not buying into his on the nose message about America’s history with slavery and problem with racism when Sam specifically told him that Steve did not put him in jail and he was not going to succumb to that same ideology that was inflicting Isaiah.

 

[matticus]

But, for me that's what the fast forward and skip buttons are for. Even better, with a series u can skip entire episodes.

Which I did with the last boat portion with his sister! Thought Isiah might reveal something else, but just bitterness, which we got in the first scene with him.

Wont be able to take Sam seriously as "Captain America" unless he takes the serum, which he wont.

Not sure how anyone can catch that shield coming at you without super strength.

I honestly think you might have missed the entire point of Sam’s conversation with Isaiah which was Sam not buying into his on the nose message about America’s history with slavery and problem with racism when Sam specifically told him that Steve did not put him in jail and he was not going to succumb to that same ideology that was inflicting Isaiah.

Isn't that what happened in the first scene with him? Writing seemed repetitive on that and a waste of time in revisiting that. 80% of the episode was a repetitive waste anyway.

 

[The Buffinator]

I honestly think you might have missed the entire point of Sam?s conversation with Isaiah which was Sam not buying into his on the nose message about America?s history with slavery and problem with racism when Sam specifically told him that Steve did not put him in jail and he was not going to succumb to that same ideology that was inflicting Isaiah.

Isn't that what happened in the first scene with him? Writing seemed repetitive on that and a waste of time in revisiting that. 80% of the episode was a repetitive waste anyway.

In the first Isaiah scene Sam was simply stunned that he even existed; there was no processing of I's experiences/suffering/sacrifice or deciding how/if that would impact Sam's decision regarding taking up the shield. This time Sam had the chance to talk with Isaiah in a more calm setting, and in his chat with his sister afterward Sam indicated that buying into Isaiah's bitterness would have meant all his suffering was for nothing. Just like his advice to Bucky, he wasn't going to let his actions be defined by what someone else tells him.

 

[jye4ever]

Exactly they had to make Isaiah’s preaching to be very eye rolling on the nose so that Sam’s rejection of it could be meaningful.

 

[ironwez20]

Walker really was kicking both there ass at the beginning tho

 

[Sassafras]

I honestly think you might have missed the entire point of Sam?s conversation with Isaiah which was Sam not buying into his on the nose message about America?s history with slavery and problem with racism when Sam specifically told him that Steve did not put him in jail and he was not going to succumb to that same ideology that was inflicting Isaiah.

Nah, actually, I got that. And if I really wanted to super analyze (my opinion only) - it's an appropriate narrative from a certain point of view, spinning a bridge from bitterness/wrongness in history to the next generation having a reason to move beyond that - e.g. be a leader for all people.

From another point of view, I think Spellman went overboard with the messaging; and I always question any artist/writer/director when they do that. E.g., what is your purpose? To make a statement, to educate, or to change things?

Because, if you push to the point where (some) folks tune out, then what is the end result? Or does the creator of the work even care?

Spoiler:

Also - while I get why Sam needed understanding (according to this writer); as a fan of the Russos' rather tight lean TWS style of editing - if you are gonna circle back, it had better be for a good reason - like in CW where we see flashbacks that build to something. Here, tho, I would've left it at the single appearance of Isaiah, which WAS shocking; but for me, Sam coming back to have a talk just felt - kinda predictable to me. Isaiah talking about the hell he went through. Sam IMO already had enough information to process.

For me anyway - less is more. I GOT that already; telling me, again, that you and the others experimented on were disposable; as opposed to Steve Rogers who was a hero when he did the same thing saving men (sort of); isn't gonna get me to hear that any more than I did the FIRST time. Heck, we already got Isaiah making a jab at Bucky "growing a new arm" e.g implying that Bucky was valued and cared for (by Hydra WTF or someone anyway), while Isaiah wasn't.

So why should Sam need more info? Mostly I think it was an excuse to have Isaiah show up again; but they could so that in an upcoming movie.

Didn't help that at 4 in the morning, the image that came into my head was Dutch and the Predator crew - who were also disposable. This is when a writer is losing an audience member, because they are thinking of something else...

Then there's the cherry on the sundae of getting Bucky to apologize for all this insensitivity; just - no. All that felt like NOT Sam Wilson, Steve Rogers, or Bucky Barnes; and completely forgetting you're talking to a guy who spend decades in a frozen hell with scrambled brains who didn't even know who he was. Or who his best friend was. Srsly? WTF.
It just felt like wishful politics, not characters I've know for quite a while. And all this didn't come up before with Steve, considering the make-up of the Howling Commandos and the Avengers? *Awkward*

It'll be argued this is character development - but - think it could have been done better. Less is more. (Like seeing Walker forging his own shield was shocking and chilling, without saying a word).

And there was an awful lot of time on the boat, and I didn't get that either. Or Bucky saying the shield was family - getting too thick for me; for **&^ sake we know Bucky/Cap history from that first garbage can lid shield, so IMO that could've been done better. Does Sam even know where the shield came from? That might have been a nice conversation on the d@*n boat.

Anyway, I don't like things that I feel are blatant, or pounding me in the head about stuff I already know (like any number of ugly real life historical incidents). Or stuff I feel is out of character. Same as I felt about Cap not talking to Bucky or Sam in IW - for whatever reason, something happened that doesn't compute, but the director or writer does it anyway. The Fury eye thing. Now, for me, in this series there's stuff that doesn't compute.
But hey, there's the fast forward and skip buttons; and we got Zemo and a stellar John Walker, as well as Sharon. Things could be a LOT worse.

 

[BeefEaster]

This episode was a big snooze for me.

I was expecting a lot more out of these longer final episodes.

 

[Sassafras]

In the first Isaiah scene Sam was simply stunned that he even existed; there was no processing of I's experiences/suffering/sacrifice or deciding how/if that would impact Sam's decision regarding taking up the shield. This time Sam had the chance to talk with Isaiah in a more calm setting, and in his chat with his sister afterward Sam indicated that buying into Isaiah's bitterness would have meant all his suffering was for nothing. Just like his advice to Bucky, he wasn't going to let his actions be defined by what someone else tells him.

Yeah, I get what Spellman was doing. But

Spoiler:

I'd rather have had a conversation between Ayo and Bucky; partly because Ayo is interesting and partly because it's kinda cheeky of Bucky to ask for a favor when the Dora are already irate. The two have an interesting dynamic; tho some of it for me is that always felt we should have gotten a bit more of Bucky in Wakanda anyway.

As an aside - honestly I thought Bucky was gonna let Zemo go; hope it's not the last of the Baron

 

[jye4ever]

Disney ain’t got nothing on Amazon who just reported that just ONE season of LOTR will now cost 715 million that includes the cost of buying the official rights to the the property.

Umm

 

[The Buffinator]

Yeah, I get what Spellman was doing. But

Spoiler:

I'd rather have had a conversation between Ayo and Bucky; partly because Ayo is interesting and partly because it's kinda cheeky of Bucky to ask for a favor when the Dora are already irate. The two have an interesting dynamic; tho some of it for me is that always felt we should have gotten a bit more of Bucky in Wakanda anyway.

As an aside - honestly I thought Bucky was gonna let Zemo go; hope it's not the last of the Baron

I thought

Spoiler:

they did Zemo a bit of disservice by having him show up at the Sokovia memorial statue - he was much too smart to show his face at such an obvious location. Unless his goal was suicide-by-Bucky I don't think it tracks.

I think Bucky's Wakanda flashback in last week's episode inferred that Ayo was actively involved in his deprogramming/recovery, so I think she's giving him more benefit of the doubt than would some random Dora Milajae. And he DID recapture Zemo, so no harm no foul. Besides, Ayo probably decided without some Wakandan design influence Sam's outfit would end up as a garish red, white & blue fashion mistake.

 

[The Buffinator]

Disney ain?t got nothing on Amazon who just reported that just ONE season of LOTR will now cost 715 million that includes the cost of buying the official rights to the the property.

Umm

Good thing Amazon didn't have to pay any Federal income tax this year.

 

[jye4ever]

Even NZ gave them a huge tax break

 

[matticus]

I thought

Spoiler:

they did Zemo a bit of disservice by having him show up at the Sokovia memorial statue - he was much too smart to show his face at such an obvious location. Unless his goal was suicide-by-Bucky I don't think it tracks.

I think Bucky's Wakanda flashback in last week's episode inferred that Ayo was actively involved in his deprogramming/recovery, so I think she's giving him more benefit of the doubt than would some random Dora Milajae. And he DID recapture Zemo, so no harm no foul. Besides, Ayo probably decided without some Wakandan design influence Sam's outfit would end up as a garish red, white & blue fashion mistake.

Spoiler:

But didn't that seem too easy? I feel like there is more to come with the raft.