LOST discussion - thar be spoilers ahead!

[tomandshell]

I do think that one of the characters will die in the explosion, and they have kind of set Michael up as somebody willing to sacrifice himself--so it would be typical if they actually have him survive and then kill off somebody else entirely as a surprise.

Does Ben know that killing Keamy to avenge his daughter will trigger the explosion on the freighter, once the little device monitoring his pulse sends the detonation signal?

 

[tomandshell]

To have a hostile takeover of a HUGE company like that, Sun would have to have hundreds of millions of dollar, don't see Oceanic giving that money out, seeing as though most airline company's are going bankrupt. the ONLY unbelieable thing on the episode.

Or maybe Sun is also working with Ben, like Sayid. He apparently has the money (at least Miles thinks so). He recruits Sayid to do his killing, and Sun to work from within the company. Paik Industries is a partner with Widmore and a collaborator with Hanso, etc. I think that since Paik and Widmore are working together, Ben gave some big money to Sun to get her to make her move and gain a controlling interest in Paik/Widmore and she will be working alongside her father as a mole. If she blames her father or Widmore for Jin's fate, then she would be just as motivated as Sayid to get her hands dirty and bring them down. Ben now has a spy inside the Widmore camp.

 

[tomandshell]

Hmmm, I really LIKE that theory. Because Locke moves the island, that bearing that they all use doesn't work anymore. Wonder how that works, it's kinda hard to move an island

I agree--I think there's a good chance that "moving the island" actually involves electromagnetically altering the bearing that it takes to get there. Compasses don't point north reliably because there is a great deal of electromagnetic interference that confuses all navigational readings needed for accurate travel by land, sea or air.

If the Orchid station allows Ben/Locke to adjust the magnetic interference weirdness level of the island so that 305 is no longer the bearing that gets you there, then future freighters and helicopters would just be sailing/flying around the ocean with no island in sight. Tweak the only reliable access route to the island, and for all intents and purposes it will have "moved" because that island that used to be sitting there on a bearing of 305 has vanished. They won't be able to find it anymore.

(Which is why Jack and the others find it such an impossible idea that they might return in the future. Ben's death (if he is in the coffin) would put Jack over the edge, because he would have been the only person on the mainland who had the information that could actually help to get them back to the island.)

 

[Entropy]

I agree--I think there's a good chance that "moving the island" actually involves electromagnetically altering the bearing that it takes to get there. Compasses don't point north reliably because there is a great deal of electromagnetic interference that confuses all navigational readings needed for accurate travel by land, sea or air.

If the Orchid station allows Ben/Locke to adjust the magnetic interference weirdness level of the island so that 305 is no longer the bearing that gets you there, then future freighters and helicopters would just be sailing/flying around the ocean with no island in sight. Tweak the only reliable access route to the island, and for all intents and purposes it will have "moved" because that island that used to be sitting there on a bearing of 305 has vanished. They won't be able to find it anymore.

(Which is why Jack and the others find it such an impossible idea that they might return in the future. Ben's death (if he is in the coffin) would put Jack over the edge, because he would have been the only person on the mainland who had the information that could actually help to get them back to the island.)

Sounds good to me. Also explains why Widmore can't find the island again when he's talking to Ben. But unless the obit. clipping was inacurate, which the writers may indeed redo, the black neighborhood parlour and the teenage son line still jive with Michael not Ben.

 

[Sick Boy 82]

But what's with the time-dielation thing?? Is that from the EM interference or what?

I think you have something on changing the bearing of the island, because they have to follow the same bearing to get there and to leave the island. I guess even being half a degree off and you will overshoot it, because they keep saying follow 305 exactly.

But what if they really do "move" it. Is that maybe how the Black Rock wound up in the middle of the island?

 

[lcummins]

Yea, WHO put that there??

Remember, Michael was supposed to blow up the ship, and the first time he tried, he got the little pop-up from Ben that said something like "Not yet". I think Ben arranged to have it get on the ship so that Michael could use it if needed.

 

[Sick Boy 82]

Remember, Michael was supposed to blow up the ship, and the first time he tried, he got the little pop-up from Ben that said something like "Not yet". I think Ben arranged to have it get on the ship so that Michael could use it if needed.

Hahaha, yeah. But why would he be acting all surprised about it. Or did he really think the bomb was in the little box??

 

[lcummins]

Hahaha, yeah. But why would he be acting all surprised about it. Or did he really think the bomb was in the little box??

Good point! Maybe it is for them to use against the Island... but why didn't they take it with them? And come to think of it, it wasn't in the communications room before... ???? and more ?????

 

[barryo]

i can buy into the theory of of altering the magnetic poles to throw off radar eqpt and cause interference with electrical equipment in general to facillitate the "moving" of the island.......but......accomplished sailors can navigate the oceans using maps and stars. and whidmore (being a sailor and perhaps a captian of a certain boat ) would at the very least have a general knowledge of where "his" island would be & surely he would have maps to get back there or tell someone how to. of course that might not fit into the story the producers are trying to tell.

 

[lcummins]

...accomplished sailors can navigate the oceans using maps and stars...

Maybe the electro-magnetic interference is so great it can even "bend" the atmosphere and make the stars appear in slightly different parts of the sky causing navigation to be off... just a thought.

 

[barryo]

Maybe the electro-magnetic interference is so great it can even "bend" the atmosphere and make the stars appear in slightly different parts of the sky causing navigation to be off... just a thought.

maybe.............but i sure wouldnt want to stand next to the machine that could do that.
makes me think of the scene in oceans 12 when he's about to fire up that electro pulse device and covers his jewels with his hand.

 

[lcummins]

maybe.............but i sure wouldnt want to stand next to the machine that could do that.
makes me think of the scene in oceans 12 when he's about to fire up that electro pulse device and covers his jewels with his hand.

Remember what happened when Desmond almost didn't get it shut down in time with the key and the hatch blew, the sky turned purple and the entire Island shook!!!

 

[Sick Boy 82]

i can buy into the theory of of altering the magnetic poles to throw off radar eqpt and cause interference with electrical equipment in general to facillitate the "moving" of the island.......but......accomplished sailors can navigate the oceans using maps and stars. and whidmore (being a sailor and perhaps a captian of a certain boat ) would at the very least have a general knowledge of where "his" island would be & surely he would have maps to get back there or tell someone how to. of course that might not fit into the story the producers are trying to tell.

True, but I'm guessing he didn't know and that's why he needed the log book. I believe the log book had the location or at the very least the bearing to the island. Which I guess means that it hasn't been "moved" in the past few hundred years.

And if it was his ship, why didn't he have the log book in the first place?? I just don't believe he is one of the "Hostiles" like Richard, unable to be killed or grow old. Which by the way was a killer part of the show last night. Richard coming out with all the "Others" was awesome!!

 

[Sick Boy 82]

Remember what happened when Desmond almost didn't get it shut down in time with the key and the hatch blew, the sky turned purple and the entire Island shook!!!

I think if he hadn't, the island would have just winked out of existance. I think the sky turning purple is kind of a bad thing.

 

[barryo]

Remember what happened when Desmond almost didn't get it shut down in time with the key and the hatch blew, the sky turned purple and the entire Island shook!!!

yea..........isnt that when they found him later in the woods? not to say they dont have another machine but that one was destroyed wasnt it? i got a feeling that when we get to see locke go down into the orchid station its going to be quite the eye opener.

 

[FlyAndFight]

Some great ideas thrown around.

barryo, I agree that Locke in the orchid is going to be one huge scene. I'm going to stick to my "Island is a portal to alternative universes" theory and say that we're going to get glimpses of different "time-lines" when he attempts to "move" the island.

Perhaps all of these flash-forwards that we're seeing will become moot, as new, alternate time-lines are put into effect?

Or perhaps we'll get thrown BACK to the beginning and watch the survivors relive their island adventures but in a totally different way, now that Locke, Ben and who knows who else knows what is to come...

 

[Darth Caedus]

barryo, I agree that Locke in the orchid is going to be one huge scene. I'm going to stick to my "Island is a portal to alternative universes" theory and say that we're going to get glimpses of different "time-lines" when he attempts to "move" the island.

Perhaps all of these flash-forwards that we're seeing will become moot, as new, alternate time-lines are put into effect?

Or perhaps we'll get thrown BACK to the beginning and watch the survivors relive their island adventures but in a totally different way, now that Locke, Ben and who knows who else knows what is to come...

I don't think so, creators say the mystery is something scientific, something tangible, not that type of mystical stuff. When you future is changing with the changing of the past, I hope Lost doesn't get stuck into that paradox, I would be REALLY pissed off if they did.

 

[barryo]

I don't think so, creators say the mystery is something scientific, something tangible, not that type of mystical stuff. When you future is changing with the changing of the past, I hope Lost doesn't get stuck into that paradox, I would be REALLY pissed off if they did.

im not really buying the whole tangible thing anymore.......that has kinda flown out the window with the time travel/teleportation thing they have going. i know it hasnt been spelled out that it is indeed time travel but the writing is pretty much on the wall and if it isnt.........then a lot of what has happened would be next to impossible without that ability. but this is lost.....so i guess its a wait and see thing. but i agree with the ending having the potential to piss people off.

 

[tomandshell]

Go and watch the first scene of the Season One Pilot, where the show opens on Jack on the ground in the jungle. Tell me if it reminds you of Ben's "teleporting" into Tunisia. There is an interesting sound effect right before he wakes up all disoriented and his pupils dilate. Also, his fingers (left hand) are kind of trembling as if they were just holding something--and on the ground beside him (above his left shoulder), you can see something that resembles one of the black cylindrical/telescoping batons that Ben had with him in Tunisia after he teleported, and which he handed over to Locke before heading into the Orchid (presumably to keep away from Keamy when captured). It seems a bit thicker than Ben's, but it's definitely not bamboo and it is presumably there on purpose.

 

[Darklord Dave]

Go and watch the first scene of the Season One Pilot, where the show opens on Jack on the ground in the jungle. Tell me if it reminds you of Ben's "teleporting" into Tunisia. There is an interesting sound effect right before he wakes up all disoriented and his pupils dilate. Also, his fingers (left hand) are kind of trembling as if they were just holding something--and on the ground beside him (above his left shoulder), you can see something that resembles one of the black cylindrical/telescoping batons that Ben had with him in Tunisia after he teleported, and which he handed over to Locke before heading into the Orchid (presumably to keep away from Keamy when captured). It seems a bit thicker than Ben's, but it's definitely not bamboo and it is presumably there on purpose.

That's interesting, but I truly believe the creators had no clue about the direction the show would be going or even had an idea of what the ultimate big mystery would be when they were writing the pilot.