just a post

[Bannister]

"One thing that bugs me is Obi-Wan telling Luke that his father wanted him to have his lightsaber when he was old enough. That was just a flat out lie. "


Yes, it's a lie. What should he have said? "I had this old thing laying around...want it?"

Or, "You dad turned to evil and I chopped his legs and arm off and took this from him.....want it?"

He said what he had to and brought in Anakin's name to draw Luke in. As for Lucas coming up with "forbiden love" later, you're probably right, but I still think Obi-Wan's "lie" fits into the story just fine because there really wasn't anything else he could say to Luke about the Saber he was giving him.

yeah I can just imagine the dialog in that scene if he told him the truth.
Obi Wan: "Luke this was your father's lightsaber" (Obi wan smirks) "Wanna know how I got it."
Luke: "Yes"
Obi Wan: "Your father turned to evil, so I tracked him to this lava planet where I found him choking your pregnant mother. at which point I engaged him in a lightsaber duel. Eventually I gained the high ground, which any jedi knows means I have won the fight. Your father blinded by his arrogance decided to test this. He foolishly tried jumping over me at which point I chopped of his remaining arm and two legs. Then I proceeded to pick his lightsaber off the ground yelled at him a little bit and then watched him catch on fire. Then I left. Oh yeah and before that he killed a bunch of kids with this saber. Anyway here you go."
Luke:"thanks"

 

[KitFisto]

yeah I can just imagine the dialog in that scene if he told him the truth.
Obi Wan: "Luke this was your father's lightsaber" (Obi wan smirks) "Wanna know how I got it."
Luke: "Yes"
Obi Wan: "Your father turned to evil, so I tracked him to this lava planet where I found him choking your pregnant mother. at which point I engaged him in a lightsaber duel. Eventually I gained the high ground, which any jedi knows means I have won the fight. Your father blinded by his arrogance decided to test this. He foolishly tried jumping over me at which point I chopped of his remaining arm and two legs. Then I proceeded to pick his lightsaber off the ground yelled at him a little bit and then watched him catch on fire. Then I left. Oh yeah and before that he killed a bunch of kids with this saber. Anyway here you go."
Luke:"thanks"

 

[Collector Freak]

You're just now realizing that the prequels opened up a crapload of continuity flaws?

 

[Darth Loki]

You're just now realizing that the prequels opened up a crapload of continuity flaws?

That was pretty obvious from TPM. We were lead to believe that Obi was Yoda's padawan (The Jedi that instructed me), but it was Qui-Gon. I think this is why we see Yoda teaching a class in AOTC, to show him instructing other students.

 

[Agent0028]

One time I saw a snippet of an interview with Rick McCallum (sp?) and he hinted that the whole thing with Leia remembering her mother might be made a little clearer in the TV show. I'm not really sure how that would fit in though, and afterwards he said "you know how badly parents can **** up their kids so maybe she was lying". Or something like that anyways.

I deal with the continuity errors by looking at Star Wars as an epic with all the inconsistencies you can expect with very old legends. Look at the King Arthur fables, lots of contradictions there.

 

[Buttmunch]

I've heard from somewhere that Leia thought Bail Organa's wife was her real mother and Bail her real father. Leia telling Luke about her mother in Jedi was the one reason I didn't think Padme would die in Sith.

Another thing I don't get is why Obi's and Darth's rematch in ANH is so weak. I know they were shot 25 years before Sith, but the fight just isn't as good as the prequal fights with old people. Dooku was 80 in AotC and 83 in RotS (Lee was too) and Dooku would do all sorts of filps and jumps. Even if Obi was out of shape he should have been able to do them. I mean Yoda can barely walk, but he flew all over the place in AotC, CWs, and RotS. This is a minor flaw when watching them in order though. I guess Lucas could always mess around with that fight and use some CGI to "fix" it

 

[Agent0028]

That was pretty obvious from TPM. We were lead to believe that Obi was Yoda's padawan (The Jedi that instructed me), but it was Qui-Gon. I think this is why we see Yoda teaching a class in AOTC, to show him instructing other students.

Or he was lying out his ass to Luke again to get him to become a Jedi.

 

[pixletwin]

I've heard from somewhere that Leia thought Bail Organa's wife was her real mother and Bail her real father. Leia telling Luke about her mother in Jedi was the one reason I didn't think Padme would die in Sith.

I don't think she believed Mrs. Bail to be her real mom. It is inferred with Luke's emphasis when he asks her if she has any memories of her real mother.

 

[KitFisto]

I've heard from somewhere that Leia thought Bail Organa's wife was her real mother and Bail her real father. Leia telling Luke about her mother in Jedi was the one reason I didn't think Padme would die in Sith.

Another thing I don't get is why Obi's and Darth's rematch in ANH is so weak. I know they were shot 25 years before Sith, but the fight just isn't as good as the prequal fights with old people. Dooku was 80 in AotC and 83 in RotS (Lee was too) and Dooku would do all sorts of filps and jumps. Even if Obi was out of shape he should have been able to do them. I mean Yoda can barely walk, but he flew all over the place in AotC, CWs, and RotS. This is a minor flaw when watching them in order though. I guess Lucas could always mess around with that fight and use some CGI to "fix" it

C. Lee is 80 years old and that's why his body was replaced with an actor who could do the fighting and his head was CG over the head of the other actor. It's not like Lee was doing that stuff and obviously they didn't have the CG ability to replce Sir Alec and Vader back in '77.

 

[CAhobbit]

If you've never seen them and don't know that Vader is Luke's father, 4-6 need to be first. There's no moment in cinema better than that revelation.

Oh thanks for ruining it for me.

Anywho, to see the worst onscreen reaction to said 'surprising' news of who is who's father is also well worth it.

"Noo!! That's IMPOSSIBLE!"


But it still is one of the best surprise revelations on film.

I've heard from somewhere that Leia thought Bail Organa's wife was her real mother and Bail her real father. Leia telling Luke about her mother in Jedi was the one reason I didn't think Padme would die in Sith.

I've heard this theory many times but why would the truth of who her mother is (at least) be kept secret from her? I'm still of the opinion that she does remember Padme when she tells Luke in ROTJ. She just has one heck of a memory (I guess the 'force' might be able to do that). I still didn't think Padme needed to die right after she gave birth though, the character endured so much and then to just give up like she did at the end was kind of a let down. *sigh*

 

[Darth Loki]

I've heard from somewhere that Leia thought Bail Organa's wife was her real mother and Bail her real father. Leia telling Luke about her mother in Jedi was the one reason I didn't think Padme would die in Sith.

Another thing I don't get is why Obi's and Darth's rematch in ANH is so weak. I know they were shot 25 years before Sith, but the fight just isn't as good as the prequal fights with old people. Dooku was 80 in AotC and 83 in RotS (Lee was too) and Dooku would do all sorts of filps and jumps. Even if Obi was out of shape he should have been able to do them. I mean Yoda can barely walk, but he flew all over the place in AotC, CWs, and RotS. This is a minor flaw when watching them in order though. I guess Lucas could always mess around with that fight and use some CGI to "fix" it

One reason for the weaker fight scene is the fact that originaly Lucas wanted the idea that the lightsabers were in fact very heavy, like a broad soard, and needed two hands to wield. He went away from that idea in ESB. Also the fact that Obi never really intended on winning that fight and he hadn't used a saber in almost 20 years.

 

[Darth Loki]

Oh thanks for ruining it for me.

Anywho, to see the worst onscreen reaction to said 'surprising' news of who is who's father is also well worth it.

"Noo!! That's IMPOSSIBLE!"


But it still is one of the best surprise revelations on film.



I've heard this theory many times but why would the truth of who her mother is (at least) be kept secret from her? I'm still of the opinion that she does remember Padme when she tells Luke in ROTJ. She just has one heck of a memory (I guess the 'force' might be able to do that). I still didn't think Padme needed to die right after she gave birth though, the character endured so much and then to just give up like she did at the end was kind of a let down. *sigh*

But don't you think Vader would have gone looking for her if she were still alive? I think she needed to die and always assumed she was going to since the beginning of the PT.

 

[CAhobbit]

But don't you think Vader would have gone looking for her if she were still alive? I think she needed to die and always assumed she was going to since the beginning of the PT.

Not really. If he didn't even seek out Luke then I figured Padme could have gotten away. Granted he thought his "child" (though of course she had twins) never came into existence but you'd think the force being the force there would be some kind of connection but apparently there wasn't. Perhaps that could be chalked up to the fact that he had turned to the 'dark side' and thus certian connections would be 'forgotten' or severed. Heck he didn't even know Luke or Leia were his own kin in "A New Hope" and I would have thought 'something' would have niggled at him to give him some kind of realization (even just a nagging feeling) but nada, hence my theory that the 'darkside' severs/makes one forget. Totally out there theory but I'm sticking with it.

And if he had such a strong connection to Padme (and hence his ability to possibly seek her out) why did Sideous have to tell him Padme was dead? Wouldn't he have already known that in his heart/feelings? And even if Padme had lived what would be Vadar's reason for seeking out Padme and his children? Once he became 100% Vadar there would have been no reason to find them as I see it, he had more important matters to attend to...like build a death star and help gain more and more of the galaxy for the emperor.

--------------------------------------
Sideous: What do you mean they blew up the deathstar?? Who is they??

 

[hairlesswookiee]

another thing about the "ninja" flipping fighting that yoda does. there are several types of lightsaber fighting styles. 7 to be exact. obi wan's was a defensive style that he mastered after watching qui gon get killed by darth maul. if you notice mace windu, kitt fisto, and the other jedi in the end of episode two- none of them are flying around like yoda and dooku do. most are trained basic fighting skill and after that they kind of master their own style. anakin had an aggressive style using brute force. after his fight with obi wan, darth vader had to change his form to compensate his bulkiness.

now add about 20 or so years to their old,wrinkly butts and that explains why the fight in episode 4 was kind of lackluster. that and im sure obi wan wanted luke to witness how evil vader really was.

 

[oxbeard]

another thing about the "ninja" flipping fighting that yoda does. there are several types of lightsaber fighting styles. 7 to be exact. obi wan's was a defensive style that he mastered after watching qui gon get killed by darth maul. if you notice mace windu, kitt fisto, and the other jedi in the end of episode two- none of them are flying around like yoda and dooku do. most are trained basic fighting skill and after that they kind of master their own style. anakin had an aggressive style using brute force. after his fight with obi wan, darth vader had to change his form to compensate his bulkiness.

now add about 20 or so years to their old,wrinkly butts and that explains why the fight in episode 4 was kind of lackluster. that and im sure obi wan wanted luke to witness how evil vader really was.

Good point, this was actually why it was decided he would be the best to defeat GG. Dooku had tried to train GG to fight against the more aggressive styles but this made him susceptible to Obi-Wan's style.

I think it was also mentioned in the books that Mace Windu's style was developed by him and he was the only one using that style, at least at that point.

 

[hairlesswookiee]

Good point, this was actually why it was decided he would be the best to defeat GG. Dooku had tried to train GG to fight against the more aggressive styles but this made him susceptible to Obi-Wan's style.

I think it was also mentioned in the books that Mace Windu's style was developed by him and he was the only one using that style, at least at that point.

yup!!! mace said out of all the jedi masters only obi wan could defeat GG. mace's fighting style was called Vaapad. he was the only jedi master that was practicing the style because it derived its power from the dark side. one of his apprentices Depa Billaba also mastered this form.

~~see, reading gives you all kinds of useless knowledge

 

[Darth Loki]

Not really. If he didn't even seek out Luke then I figured Padme could have gotten away. Granted he thought his "child" (though of course she had twins) never came into existence but you'd think the force being the force there would be some kind of connection but apparently there wasn't. Perhaps that could be chalked up to the fact that he had turned to the 'dark side' and thus certian connections would be 'forgotten' or severed. Heck he didn't even know Luke or Leia were his own kin in "A New Hope" and I would have thought 'something' would have niggled at him to give him some kind of realization (even just a nagging feeling) but nada, hence my theory that the 'darkside' severs/makes one forget. Totally out there theory but I'm sticking with it.

And if he had such a strong connection to Padme (and hence his ability to possibly seek her out) why did Sideous have to tell him Padme was dead? Wouldn't he have already known that in his heart/feelings? And even if Padme had lived what would be Vadar's reason for seeking out Padme and his children? Once he became 100% Vadar there would have been no reason to find them as I see it, he had more important matters to attend to...like build a death star and help gain more and more of the galaxy for the emperor.

--------------------------------------
Sideous: What do you mean they blew up the deathstar?? Who is they??

Well following your theory that the Dark Side severs connections, his ability to feel her would either be gone or lessoned. His reason for seeking out Padme would be that he loved her. That was the whole reason he gave into the Dark Side in the first place. He knew when he killed Mace that there was no turning back, but at least he now had the chance to save Padme. Sith don't follow regular Jedi code (obviously), so he could'vet been tapping the hottest of hotties and still be a Sith Lord.

 

[CAhobbit]

Well following your theory that the Dark Side severs connections, his ability to feel her would either be gone or lessoned. His reason for seeking out Padme would be that he loved her. That was the whole reason he gave into the Dark Side in the first place. He knew when he killed Mace that there was no turning back, but at least he now had the chance to save Padme. Sith don't follow regular Jedi code (obviously), so he couldn't been tapping the hottest of hotties and still be a Sith Lord.

So unfortunate to eh? No more great lines like...

"I hate sand. It gets everywhere"

to make Ms. Hottie (as you put it hehe) swoon all over him. I guess he lost his pick-up line ability when he totally turned as well (not that the ability was really there in the first place).

 

[oxbeard]

yup!!! mace said out of all the jedi masters only obi wan could defeat GG. mace's fighting style was called Vaapad. he was the only jedi master that was practicing the style because it derived its power from the dark side. one of his apprentices Depa Billaba also mastered this form.

~~see, reading gives you all kinds of useless knowledge

Now it's coming back to me. I had forgotten about the darkside link. Didn't realize about his apprentice though.

 

[Agent0028]

Sora Bulq also used Vaapad according to the Clone Wars Comics. In Shatterpoint it says that Mace and Depa were the only masters of it, but by this point Sora was out of the picture so that could be why he wasn't mentioned. Or maybe he used it but wasn't a master of it.