Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade Discussion Thread

[choopie]

I saw TLC in theaters and was pretty disappointed in it at the onset. Over time I warmed up to it and can now appreciate it and especially enjoy the performances by Ford and Connery as father and son. I can understand now why the filmmakers went in the direction they did with TLC with so much criticism from audiences over ToD being too dark and too much of a departure from Raiders. I think they went over the top in some respects (Brody, for example), but I can accept it.

Perhaps some day I'll look upon KOTCS the same way.

 

[Something Sexy]

I saw TLC in theaters and was pretty disappointed in it at the onset. Over time I warmed up to it and can now appreciate it and especially enjoy the performances by Ford and Connery as father and son. I can understand now why the filmmakers went in the direction they did with TLC with so much criticism from audiences over ToD being too dark and too much of a departure from Raiders. I think they went over the top in some respects (Brody, for example), but I can accept it.

Perhaps some day I'll look upon KOTCS the same way.

I like KOTCS already but I am hoping this happens to other people.

 

[IrishJedi]

One thing I will say against the age thing though. Is I've seen all the films enough times over the years and an adult and things havent changed much.

I think our initial impression of certain films in our childhood years certainly carry over and influence at least somewhat as adults.

 

[Khev]

I'm sure I've forgotten a few things. But those are the cheap effects that really disappoint me. I also thought the tank chase was a pale shadow of the truly gripping truck chase in Raiders.

I agree about the special effects. I was in high school when TLC hit theaters and was shocked by how much of the action in the first 30 minutes of the film seemed not from a movie, but rather something along the lines of a stunt show you'd pay to see at Universal Studios. Indy's embarrassing swing across the fake ship at the beginning while off-camera stage hands threw buckets of water at him and then the tip of a toy boat submerging--you'd think we were watching some cheap naval sequence from the 50's. Not a good way to open the picture, especially with James Cameron's The Abyss dazzling audiences in adjacent theater auditoriums.

I disagree about the tank chase, though. For me that's the point in the movie where Indiana Jones actually shows up in the film, and I realized last night that it even has shades of a Steranko Jones with his open shirt and bare chest.

I did enjoy the film on its initial release, no doubt in part due to my parents divorcing earlier that year. The sentimental family comingtogetherness was a definite and much appreciated escape (/sob story.)

I'm glad people haven't dismissed my original post as "hating." When I watch Raiders and TOD I simply cannot allow the idea of him getting HIS iconic hat and jacket from some no-name 80's comedy ruffian he encountered in Utah to mar those pictures. However, when I am in the mood for 80's comedy Jones TLC delivers, in spite of my irritation with the direction they chose. Its almost the opposite of the SW PT. The PT had a good story with some really lackluster execution. TLC annoys you with its take on the character and then wins you over by the time the end credits roll.

 

[MarfMaster]

I want more than anything to love KOTCS as much as the original 3 films, but there were too many parts throughout that were just unforgivable in my book. Granted, there were some questionable moments sprinkled throughout the originals, but nothing like KOTCS. Southpark got it right, however disturbingly, as they often do.

 

[IrishJedi]

Not a good way to open the picture, especially with James Cameron's The Abyss dazzling audiences in adjacent theater auditoriums.

Always quick to over-credit The Cameron. THE ABYSS came out like 3 months later, dude. And between then (in late June) was BATMAN. By then people were no longer flocking to see TLC anyway. Your point about the lazy stunts & effects still stands, though.

I want more than anything to love KOTCS as much as the original 3 films, but there were too many parts throughout that were just unforgivable in my book. Granted, there were some questionable moments sprinkled throughout the originals, but nothing like KOTCS. Southpark got it right, however disturbingly, as they often do.

That's only accurate for those of you prone to Internet-Era Hyperbole. The film simply isn't that bad.

 

[Something Sexy]

I think our initial impression of certain films in our childhood years certainly carry over and influence at least somewhat as adults.

Oh most definitely.

I agree about the special effects. I was in high school when TLC hit theaters and was shocked by how much of the action in the first 30 minutes of the film seemed not from a movie, but rather something along the lines of a stunt show you'd pay to see at Universal Studios. Indy's embarrassing swing across the fake ship at the beginning while off-camera stage hands threw buckets of water at him and then the tip of a toy boat submerging--you'd think we were watching some cheap naval sequence from the 50's. Not a good way to open the picture, especially with James Cameron's The Abyss dazzling audiences in adjacent theater auditoriums.

I disagree about the tank chase, though. For me that's the point in the movie where Indiana Jones actually shows up in the film, and I realized last night that it even has shades of a Steranko Jones with his open shirt and bare chest.

I did enjoy the film on its initial release, no doubt in part due to my parents divorcing earlier that year. The sentimental family comingtogetherness was a definite and much appreciated escape (/sob story.)

I'm glad people haven't dismissed my original post as "hating." When I watch Raiders and TOD I simply cannot allow the idea of him getting HIS iconic hat and jacket from some no-name 80's comedy ruffian he encountered in Utah to mar those pictures. However, when I am in the mood for 80's comedy Jones TLC delivers, in spite of my irritation with the direction they chose. Its almost the opposite of the SW PT. The PT had a good story with some really lackluster execution. TLC annoys you with its take on the character and then wins you over by the time the end credits roll.

I think us hardcore Indy fans are a little more open than some of those Star Wars fans...for the most part anyway.

At least you gave your reasons instead of just saying you thought TLC was average or you hated it.

 

[Khev]

I can understand now why the filmmakers went in the direction they did with TLC with so much criticism from audiences over ToD being too dark and too much of a departure from Raiders.

What's funny is I really don't think audiences would have accepted TLC if TOD had NOT departed so dramatically. Imagine if in 1984 instead of TOD we got TLC instead. In 1981 we would have seen the Citizen Kane of adventure serials and then three summers later a wacky comedy retreading almost the exact same story as a follow-up. I think that would have permanently ended the series right there.

 

[Khev]

Always quick to over-credit The Cameron. THE ABYSS came out like 3 months later, dude. And between then (in late June) was BATMAN. By then people were no longer flocking to see TLC anyway.

I didn't mean that I was sitting there watching TLC thinking "those effects suck compared to The Abyss," though three months later I'm sure there were people thinking exactly that. I was just emphasizing what was capable in the summer of '89.

 

[IrishJedi]

I think us hardcore Indy fans are a little more open than some of those Star Wars fans...for the most part anyway.

Oh, I'm no so sure. I think KOTCS is more irrationally over-hated than even the SW Prequels.

 

[Deckard]

TLC is a weird one.

As a kid, it was my favorite hands down. But as I started actually getting more into cinema and learning more about the entire process, I went about 5 or so years w/o seeing any of them.

When I came back to the franchise, I quickly realised Raiders was the better/more solid story and became really into it, after a few watching it was and has since been my favorite.

Also Temple has really grown on me and not after Crystal Skull came out, just a little before it became official actually that CS was happeneing.

TBH I appreciate Temple now more for it's originality and boldness it taking Indy in the opposite direction. However I cannot say the same for CS, while it was a similar concept, they bastardised it too much.

For now I'd have to say Raiders is and will likely remain my favorite with Temple 2nd and Crusade a not so distant 3rd.

Crystal Skull never happened, I have since burned my DVD copy, no joke.

 

[IrishJedi]

Crystal Skull never happened, I have since burned my DVD copy, no joke.

There's a decent example.

 

[MarfMaster]

Crystal Skull never happened, I have since burned my DVD copy, no joke.

 

[IrishJedi]

Actually, Sarcasm is better.

 

[Khev]

Always quick to over-credit The Cameron.

Raiders and TOD > Avatar

Happy now?

There's a decent example.

I got a chuckle out of that myself.

 

[jediknight120]

Very true, Irish. Not taking anything away from the LC and ROTJ lovers, but I think it was very different for those of us who grew up with those trilogies and who had to wait 3 years between installments (5 between TOD and LC), as opposed to those who saw them all on cable or video at the same time and while at the same young age.

Imagine: we fell in love with the original, first movie of each trilogy at a young, impressionable age. I was 5 when I first saw SW and 8 for Raiders. I watched all the sequels as they premiered, all the while obsessing over them and growing up. The younger generations got to watch all the movies at the same time during that impressionable age of 8-12. There's definitely a different perspective in watching the later movies at a younger age and clumped with the originals.

I'm sure there are exceptions. But in general, yeah.

Josh and Jediknight120, how old were you when you watched the movies?

I was about 5 when I saw the Star Wars movies (born in 1980, I just missed being old enough to see them in theaters), and in my teens when I saw the Indy movies. I think RotJ became my favorite because it had the coolest space battle (Death Star II) and it had Admiral Ackbar. Ackbar has always been my favorite character in all of Star Wars.

 

[Deckard]

There's a decent example.

I started watching it one night about a month ago, and couldn't focus, it just doesn't hold your attention like the others.

Then here comes Karen Allen just happy to be here. I was half naked in my boxers getting ready for sleep and it just hit me like Howard Hughes that this thing needed to be erased from my existance so I put the dvd back in the case, stood over the toilet at the top of the steps in my boxers and watched it burn.

 

[Khev]

I did watch Raiders a couple of nights ago and one thing that struck me was the realization of just how much Karen Allen was no longer Marion when she appears in KOTCS. Ford is still Indy, but Marion now seems long gone. Allen just seems like the very nice un-Marion like lady that she probably is in real life. She did seem just happy to be on set, hanging out with old friends.

That said I still enjoy KOTCS and appreciate its risky departure as much as the previous sequels (even if the film itself isn't quite up to par with said sequels.)

 

[Khev]

To focus a little more on the positive of TLC it really did have some great moments. Indy does finally come across as a guy who can battle Nazis in his sleep (I love the bullet through three soldiers!), even to the point of ignoring an officer repeatedly punching him in the kidneys while he tries to rescue his father with the whip!

Cheapo effects from other parts of the movie aside I still think the "Leap of Faith" bridge was a brilliant gimmick.

"Indiana, let it go," still gets me every time too.

 

[Deckard]

"Elsha never really believed in the Grail. She shought she found the prizsh."

"And what did you find dad?"

"Me? Illumination."



So much better then "Somewhere grandpa is laughing."