[iminime] (The Cowboy), The Bounty Hunter & The Bandit

[PopCultKid]

I've been meaning to chime back in since this morning a but Leon beat me to it and literally took a good handful of thoughts right out of my head.

No one (well, I think no one) believes that it's better because it cost more (**cont’d bottom). This is one of the biggest fallacies about customs and the collectors. This along with all the other misconceptions are all part and parcel of why people just do not grasp why customs are priced the way they are, why collectors see value in them, and are willing to pay those prices. Until these guys get away from that "my HT includes 10 accessories and this custom includes 1/2 for $300 more" mentality, they'll just never understand. That kind of thinking is as shallow, face value, and as superficial as it gets, and you really need to dig much deeper to see the big picture.

First and foremost the big step for the non-believers is understanding all that's been discussed about the difference in production costs & capabilities between the licensed giants of the business and the mom & pop sized groups; that's 80% of the answer to "why the hell do these things cost so much". But to really understand what sets the two products apart you have to have a love for the niche characters that the EB/HT/BW of the world won't take on... and more than ANYTHING else you have to appreciate the artistry of customs. THAT'S what we're paying for. You have to be able to marvel at what guys like Robbie & fullmetal could whip up in their work spaces by hand. The way Smalls, Surfer, Jake, Carnall or Kuato (or any of the other great talents) hand paints has to move you. The way your favorite sculptor does his or her thing has to blow you away. This is what makes these two products completely different animals. I say it all the time... the only real similarity between custom and mass produced figures... is that they're both figures. Those who just can't see past the surface will just never get it.

Can HT do everything and anything the small customizer shop can do quicker, cheaper, and in way higher volume? THEY BETTER BE ABLE TO! I don't think that any of us think they decided to make a 1/12 Bat because they couldn't make a 1/6. I'm sure we all know that if the wanted to they have the ability to produce a 1:1 89' Batmobile toy replica (even if just as a one-off for a Con or something). Being a multi-million dollar company with all the resources you could ask for on tap could make endless magic happen. Personally, I'm more impressed with things like a scratch-built Pulp Fiction brief case w/ light up/reflecting function handmade by Robbie, all of Rainman's MASTERFULLY crafted & painted accessories, or a pair of real metal Tyler OP shades handmade by Sir fullmetal. In my eyes, the little guy who builds these things with his own two hands shines brighter than the mega toy company who has money on tap and factory production capabilities.

I’m a big licensed collector too and of course I love what HT/SS/EB/BW/etc. has given us…. but I’m well aware of the differences. It’s something that I was able to recognize from the first week I started feverishly researching 1/6 once I discovered the hobby and got instantly sucked in. It’s just a concept that resonated with me instantaneously and I guess that’s why I get frustrated, and have a hard time understanding… why others have such a hard time understanding

(** With the exception of Kato. You pay a lot more for his stuff but I feel that what you get with his product is essentially the equivalent of the “master” or “proto” of a HT outfit; in some cases [suits], better. A little gets lost in the mass production process of your average type outfit and I think that’s partially why Kato’s stuff really rises above. I’m not talking about Thor or MOS type outfits, because again, that’s stuff that you need a factory for; I’m talking about suits, Indy type things, … average outfits)

 

[PopCultKid]

Also, I’ve wanted to comment on some of what happened with Clipper’s review. I do think that certain sides of the argument got lost in the heat of the moment. I’m sure that plenty of us have out nits about the GBU set as well. Not everyone here is saying that they are pure perfection and there was no room for improvements. I do actually agree with him on a handful of points such as Angel’s eyes scarf being oversized, but I think that his approach (a little rougher than is used on custom boards) and his misconceptions sent the whole debate on a bad spin and didn’t give anyone a chance to say where they agree.

The last misconception that I do want to mention is when he said that what you’re paying for in a custom set is the head sculpt. That couldn’t be further from the truth. You’re paying for EVERYTHING that that set includes. It’s that kind of thinking that made him say that Blondie’s pants & shirt are basically what you can get from any company and that all the money in The Butcher’s set is in the sculpt. Where can you get Blondie’s iconic black/blue jeans or that exact pattern on his shirt on the market (you’re definitely not finding anything even close to that poncho or vest)? Where can you get Bill’s accurate knife set and outfit? Loose on eBay? It’s these scratch built bits made to be as accurate as the maker can, which are not easily accessible on the market, which also make customs what they are

I wish people wouldn't even bother comparing customs vs HT. It's not an either/or proposition. Both have their strengths, depending on what one values.

My experience in these threads is really the opposite of LipSmack and some others. I haven't found custom buyers to be elitist or disparaging to HT or its fans, at all.

Dude, I’m getting so sick of this word. Elitist seems like a word that’s been thrown around for years now at the people who can swing a $500-$1000 figure(s), by the people who can’t. So if buying expensive figures makes group A elitists, then what does it make group B for constantly slinging s__t at group A? Haters I suppose???? It’s getting so ridiculous it’s not even funny anymore.

Maybe those who keep throwing around that word should consider that the people who buy high end customs don’t all jump in their Lambos when they miss a package to go pick up their $1000 figure from the PO, to run it back to their mega-mansion. Maybe some people make sacrifices that others don’t do afford these figures; maybe some people ran themselves in debt chasing these figures; and maybe some people just are able to afford it because the make good money... and if that’s the case… so fkin’ what?!?!? If someone can swing something that you can’t, stop being haters and get over it!!!

Just like you said I brush shoulders with some of the coolest, down to earth people who frequent the custom threads. In my experience I’ve encountered way more arrogant douches in the HT threads then in the custom sect. More misconception I suppose

 

[chubbyman]

Dude, I’m getting so sick of this word. Elitist seems like a word that’s been thrown around for years now at the people who can swing a $500-$1000 figure(s), by the people who can’t. So if buying expensive figures makes group A elitists, then what does it make group B for constantly slinging s__t at group A? Haters I suppose???? It’s getting so ridiculous it’s not even funny anymore.

Maybe those who keep throwing around that word should consider that the people who buy high end customs don’t all jump in their Lambos when they miss a package to go pick up their $1000 figure from the PO, to run it back to their mega-mansion. Maybe some people make sacrifices that others don’t do afford these figures; maybe some people ran themselves in debt chasing these figures; and maybe some people just are able to afford it because the make good money... and if that’s the case… so fkin’ what?!?!? If someone can swing something that you can’t, stop being haters and get over it!!!

Just like you said I brush shoulders with some of the coolest, down to earth people who frequent the custom threads. In my experience I’ve encountered way more arrogant douches in the HT threads then in the custom sect. More misconception I suppose

In my eyes, the little guy who builds these things with his own two hands shines brighter than the mega toy company who has money on tap and factory production capabilities.

Agree 100% Pop!

 

[LipSmack]

Guys like I said ... "I get it".

only things ill add are that all those customs artists are fantastic, no doubt. but so are HT's, all of HT's employees were those same kinds of artists at some point it simply gets lost in the mass production of the figure

another point both pop and Leon commented that no one (at least they think no one) is an elitist .. you cant really speak for everyone on this board, or on youtube or on facebook... there are just some collectors around who feel they have better things and have more money to afford them blah blah blah, it happens, doesnt require two essays in response...

I hope my tone is coming off as calm and simple, not trying to argue or fight anyone just discussing

 

[PopCultKid]

Guys like I said ... "I get it".

My post wasn't solely directed at you brother . Your just jumping into this whole convo late (it's been going on for days and I'm not sure how much got cleaned up) and that's why you may have thought you were getting attacked. My post was directed at everyone who has issues with customs, the collectors, and keep asking the same questions & throwing the same jabs. Not just on this one occasion, but always. With so much misconception it doesn't hurt to throw these essays out there to better inform people so we don't have to tell them their opinion is wrong .

I think since this whole topic started here, a lot of custom supporters made a lot of sense and shared a lot of good informative insight. Maybe it'll help the bashers & non-believers to see things a little differently. I'm sure we'll never convert non-believers but maybe if people are more informed, they'll cut the crap with calling people crazy and all the other insults, and maybe better understand "where the money goes" and why we're willing to go for those prices.

On the other hand I don't think that Kojun, Arnie Kim, Yulli, J.C., etc. go unrecognized or uncredited. Everyone is aware that the are artists no different then the custom artists. It's a shame that HT has tight wraps on them and they don't share that talent with the custom world like Trevor does

 

[LipSmack]

My post wasn't solely directed at you brother . Your just jumping into this whole convo late (it's been going on for days and I'm not sure how much got cleaned up) and that's why you may have thought you were getting attacked. My post was directed at everyone who has issues with customs, the collectors, and keep asking the same questions & throwing the same jabs. Not just on this one occasion, but always. With so much misconception it doesn't hurt to throw these essays out there to better inform people so we don't have to tell them their opinion is wrong .

I think since this whole topic started here, a lot of custom supporters made a lot of sense and shared a lot of good informative insight. Maybe it'll help the bashers & non-believers to see things a little differently. I'm sure we'll never convert non-believers but maybe if people are more informed, they'll cut the crap with calling people crazy and all the other insults, and maybe better understand "where the money goes" and why we're willing to go for those prices.

On the other hand I don't think that Kojun, Arnie Kim, Yulli, J.C., etc. go unrecognized or uncredited. Everyone is aware that the are artists no different then the custom artists. It's a shame that HT has tight wraps on them and they don't share that talent with the custom world like Trevor does

Oh ok I see, im always late to the party

thats cool, I can see where the money goes, though personally it doesnt suit me or my collect at the present time, im definitely happy for those of you who are able to have your grail pieces

 

[Leon 911]

1) there will always be good people and bad people
2) there will always be the ones with money and the one who "make money available" - you shld see the PF section... most figures go around 400-450 bucks and people have 100's of them...
3) no one says HT is bad. You must understand that if HT was making every figure that customizers are making may be there would be a bit of a strain selling / buying customs. However, most figures here are made after taking feedback from people and also many are a part of actually giving shape and character to the figures by their contribution that is not possible for HT figures.

in summary... no one... again... no one hates HT... Robocop, Terminator and some others are best left to HT and may never be attempted here.
Customizers are making "outstanding" figures for characters no one else will touch... no one...its a void thats being filled.

i am one of those who thinks these are very expensive... but i am one of those who thinks that these are "phenomenally well done" - heart and mind into it.
Yes i have hated (literally) one odd figure here or there, but trust me i have hated many a figures HT has popped my way. I think custom quality stuff from HT where they put their hearts into it can be seen in: godfather, Aldo, Hans Landa, whiplash 1 (sculpt), bruce lee, and from enterbay in scarface, leon...

ALL I AM SAYING IS... compare sculpt to sculpt, clothing to clothing... you find an issue, air it... air again if its not heard cause that is ok. But issue with body and hands etc, is a bit unfair cause the customiser is not making them... Many received whiplash 1 with knee joint issues, many received DX13 with elbo joint popping issue, the dx13 one of the best sculpts by HT was sprayed too much ketchup on, enterbay bodies at times where a nightmare to make sit on a chair, and carlitos hands cannot make him drink his beer. All of this does not mean carlitos sculpt is bad, or his clothing is bad or whiplash was a bad figure. All of that means the body "HT / X made" was bad. However, here, the bodies are not being made... so lets just keep that point aside and discuss sculpt / clothing / accessories and if there are issues, i and many will support you... i have seen Denny make changes based on feedback and i have seen Omar's hunger to improve each and every figure... so lets judge them on what they make and nothing else.

Guys like I said ... "I get it".

only things ill add are that all those customs artists are fantastic, no doubt. but so are HT's, all of HT's employees were those same kinds of artists at some point it simply gets lost in the mass production of the figure

another point both pop and Leon commented that no one (at least they think no one) is an elitist .. you cant really speak for everyone on this board, or on youtube or on facebook... there are just some collectors around who feel they have better things and have more money to afford them blah blah blah, it happens, doesnt require two essays in response...

I hope my tone is coming off as calm and simple, not trying to argue or fight anyone just discussing

 

[PopCultKid]

Oh ok I see, im always late to the party

thats cool, I can see where the money goes, though personally it doesnt suit me or my collect at the present time, im definitely happy for those of you who are able to have your grail pieces

And if everyone could respond like that, there would be a lot more peace & quiet

It's perfectly cool for someone to say, "hey, I get all that but no matter how you slice it, it's more than I'm personally willing to spend". That's a lot different than calling people "crazy" and all the other horse s__t.

 

[LipSmack]

And if everyone could respond like that, there would be a lot more peace & quiet

It's perfectly cool for someone to say, "hey, I get all that but no matter how you slice it, it's more than I'm personally willing to spend". That's a lot different than calling people "crazy" and all the other horse s__t.

I wont lie, at first my reaction was a bit like that, but thanks to all those who answered my questions and explained some things, certainly changed my view a bit (not that I hated customs or anything, just didnt get the pricing etc..)

and Leon, its cool man

 

[samithesami]

Oh cool i get to meet Denny , I'm going to Famcon this year we can all have a great little chat , get our heads together and see if we can figure out where things went wrong ....hope Omar is coming too

if you ever come to Dubai, please do let me know! I would love to invite you for a cup of coffee and talk with you even though you blocked me on facebook and told me to unsubscrive and that i am not welcome!

I was watching Clipper's review of the new Elder Predator, and I was curious what all the hubbub was about that would get him banned from the forum for two weeks. So, assuming it had to do with one of his recent reviews, I came here, and spent the last 10 minutes skimming through this thread.

Personally, I support Clipper. He's one of my favorite reviewers. But I think BOTH sides of this argument got way out of hand. Everyone seemed to turn into a group of *****y douchbags real quick.

In general, I used to respect a lot of people on here. After all, we're all in this hobby together. But after getting so heated from one person's opinions... sorry to say, I have very little respect for a few of you now. How thin skinned do you have to be to let things go this far?

Sure, you know the guy who made the figure, or in obvious certain cases, you are the guy who made the figure, but that's no excuse. You simply cannot please everyone. If you think you can, that's just extremely egotistical. You got to have a thick skin about it, take the criticism where you can, and use it to your advantage. Case in point: Asmus, over in the Lord of the Rings threads (scoff if you must, but they're doing it right).

I mean, honestly, you need to be ashamed of yourselves.

For a group of mostly guys who spend A LOT of money to sit around and play with toys, we are a very petty, easily offended group, ready to eat each other at the first spark of a disagreement. Did our mommies never each us to play nicely?

Besides, speaking to any one of you, do you know what your opinion means to me? Jack and ****. And Jack left town. Your opinion has absolutely no effect on my viewpoint or focus of my collecting. So why does anyone's opinion matter to anyone else? It really shouldn't; agree to disagree and move on. If you can't, then you are no man.

Good god, people. Grow the hell up and let's play with our toys like adults.

so any opinion means **** to you? well this is a forum.. and the definition of a forum is a meeting or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged....... so if you are not interesting in exchanging ideas and views, and are only listening to yourself, i heard IKEA are having good deals on mirrors, go get one and have a monologue....

ill just stop here and wont go more into this because ive had a huge ass thread in OSR on facebook deleted that caused quit a stir.... and ill say it again.... screw any collector who starts acting like a god as if they are unapproachable and we have to almost bow to them to even get a reply..... they should get a lesson in humility.... i know some collectors who are like that and it sucks.... yet hope is there, i know some collectors who have amazing collections and have amazins skills act all humble and normal....

i am talking and talking but i am really pissed at this, so excuse my tone and excuse me if i sound a bit agressive... but the day has not come and will never come where any person will look down on me or belittle me, not because i am letting him (which will never happen) but because he thinks he is "holier than thou" or whatever the expression is lol

and this is what i had felt with this individual and got me to a boiling point where i had to lash out....

Well said, I totally agree. Shame to see so many great collectors act like children because some people disagree on something.

Views and opinions are in the eye of the beholder.

Let's hope this ends and everyone accepts we can and will differ.

what is worse is seeing an adult person act like a 15 year old kid using schoolyard bullying attitudes....

 

[lt0778]

I've read a lot of this since the review. Kipper king did have some good points but people don't like the way it came out. I collect for the love of the hobby I own hot toys,customs and I work on my own custom stuff here and their, but this bull crap about elitist is pure bs, because I'm not rich by any standards I guess I try to buy smart because this hobby is so damn expensive, but I buy what I like if it's a hot toys or a rainman piece. We know the big compnies won't touch certain linces and thank god theirs custom artist that fill the void. But I'm the last one to come on here and brag about what I own so I can't stand that elitist tag put on people who buy customs because theirs a lot of collectors that are like me who buy a few customs here and their but still get excited to see hot toys put out a great character, like Marty and the upcoming robocop coming out, I can really appreciate those releases and hope to be able to buy them. In the end guys it's a hobby I hope we all can enjoy, and in the end if your chasing down figures just to say u have maybe you should re think this hobby.

 

[greatlakes6]

Some of the antagonistic comments come off as sour grapes, some as ignorance. Either way, what difference does it make how we choose to spend our money. For me, this has nothing to do with the cost of the figure, it is about getting the best representation of a figure that I want in my collection. GBU figures aren't growing on trees, it's not like there are several companies making them with a less expensive choice. Should I be scrutinized over the size of my house, the car I drive, the clothes I wear. Commenting on what other people choose to do with their money, when it has absolutely no effect on them, is a sign of someone who has nothing better to do with their time.

 

[Lakhota]

I am better than all of you ask Stan Lee!!

 

[greatlakes6]

I am better than all of you ask Stan Lee!!

Wow! You've really slimmed down, not bloated at all.

 

[PopCultKid]

if you ever come to Dubai, please do let me know! I would love to invite you for a cup of coffee and talk with you even though you blocked me on facebook and told me to unsubscrive and that i am not welcome!

Don't worry Sami, he's not holier than thou. He IS however holier than every YouTube reviewer who has less subscribers than him!

Some of the antagonistic comments come off as sour grapes, some as ignorance. Either way, what difference does it make how we choose to spend our money. For me, this has nothing to do with the cost of the figure, it is about getting the best representation of a figure that I want in my collection. GBU figures aren't growing on trees, it's not like there are several companies making them with a less expensive choice. Should I be scrutinized over the size of my house, the car I drive, the clothes I wear. Commenting on what other people choose to do with their money, when it has absolutely no effect on them, is a sign of someone who has nothing better to do with their time.

Yes, yes, yes & friken yes!

I am better than all of you ask Stan Lee!!

Elitist!!!

 

[blackpanther]

They are all just little plastic dolls,,very few people are doing things with them that would qualify as ar although I have seen some customisers breaking through into that definition,,,denny kim putting together a doll in the image of a movie star is not art,,its a craft,,there are no evolved or original ideas there,,,just skill and investment,,,,good and even interesting to look at,,,but not an artist. The sculptor is an artist in his spare time possibly but his work is more craft than art when he is being told what to do by his boss.

 

[Ajkhunter]

They are all just little plastic dolls,,very few people are doing things with them that would qualify as ar although I have seen some customisers breaking through into that definition,,,denny kim putting together a doll in the image of a movie star is not art,,its a craft,,there are no evolved or original ideas there,,,just skill and investment,,,,good and even interesting to look at,,,but not an artist. The sculptor is an artist in his spare time possibly but his work is more craft than art when he is being told what to do by his boss.

... ...

 

[Phine1]

Welcome back Odell

 

[blackpanther]

Trevor Grove is an artist/craftsman, Kenny dim is a business man, not an artist. He sells a manufactured product, not art. Hot Toys and sideshow are not art, they are products. Great products indeed. However just fancy toys. The art is there in the initial stages of production. Then it turns into a produced item of a certain quantity. What people pay for it is another matter. The higher the price does not justify it being called art. Just saying,,thats all,,i love iminime but it is not art,,wh0 is Odell?

 

[Lakhota]

Trevor Grove is an artist/craftsman, Kenny dim is a business man, not an artist. He sells a manufactured product, not art. Hot Toys and sideshow are not art, they are products. Great products indeed. However just fancy toys. The art is there in the initial stages of production. Then it turns into a produced item of a certain quantity. What people pay for it is another matter. The higher the price does not justify it being called art. Just saying,,thats all,,i love iminime but it is not art,,wh0 is Odell?

That is like saying a symphony orchestrator is just waving around a stick. Every hand involved in advancing the final product is an artist.

Absolute bollocks and now your just trying to wind us up,this thread has turned into a 1985 aol chat room. I enjoy a good laugh and trolling but this is redundant.

ART
the expression or application of human creative skill and imagination, typically in a visual form such as painting or sculpture, producing works to be appreciated primarily for their beauty or emotional power.