If you could, would you choose the sexuality of your child?

[Blackthornone]

Talking about making babies--drone bees and some preying mantises die or are killed after mating with females. That's not behavior oriented toward individual survival, is it?

Well, they would just die of old age if they did not. By mating and dying, they replace themselves. Therefore, it is oriented toward survival. They will die whether they mate or not. It's mate and die or die a virgin. It's a tough choice.

 

[karamazov80]

Yes, but devil's argument is that procreation and community well being are not primary drives, but individual survival (which I'm guessing means an individual living as long as possible) does. In my opinion there are clearly innate behaviors that humans and other animals do that jeopardize the well being of the self for the well being of others (even if they are only close family). I don't know why homosexuality occurs in nature, but it is possible that it could play some role in promoting community or familial well-being.

 

[devilof76]

That's a good question. I realize it doesn't preserve the bug's life, but does mating not insure the survival of the individual insect's genetic identity? You have to consider what kind of capacity for life any specific organism has as well. What more can a male praying mantis do than eat and mate? That is pretty much the extent of his life, no? He has no way out of the mechanism he's equipped with.

Bear with me. I'm being revolutionary over here. I don't have it all worked out yet.

 

[karamazov80]

LOL Truth is, scientists, philosophers, and various interested parties of all kinds have been pondering these questions for ages, and still, no one knows. The closest I've seen in terms of hard evidence is some of the hormonal issues that equate to predispositions. But that's not deterministic. So ultimately, people who believe differently aren't going to be able to prove their case against one another. Humans do have free will to engage in behaviors they choose to, and there are things they can even do to modify their urges into various alternative urges. So in that sense, I can agree that there is an element of choice in ultimate sexual preferences, but it depends on how you are using that term.

 

[Blackthornone]

That's a good question. I realize it doesn't preserve the bug's life, but does mating not insure the survival of the individual insect's genetic identity? You have to consider what kind of capacity for life any specific organism has as well. What more can a male praying mantis do than eat and mate? That is pretty much the extent of his life, no? He has no way out of the mechanism he's equipped with.

Bear with me. I'm being revolutionary over here. I don't have it all worked out yet.

Because I perceive that reincarnation exists, by the mantis mating and dying, he ensures a future life for himself. It would almost make you wonder if his own soul goes into the female he impregnates so that he becomes his own son.
That sounds pretty funny, but it could be true.

 

[devilof76]

So in that sense, I can agree that there is an element of choice in ultimate sexual preferences, but it depends on how you are using that term.

I'm using it in the sense that people are making value judgments constantly, virtually from the moment they're born, and that the mind's integrative functions create an emotional unity from that. Sex is the ultimate physical response to one's deepest emotional/value orientation. How it becomes an issue of gender attraction is rooted in one's self-evaluation/identity. Suppose epigenetic effects render a child overly sensitive to testosterone. If that is the only standard they use to judge themselves and their response to others, repeatedly, then it will be the primary factor in determining their attraction. But suppose they repeatedly judge against that response. By the time they hit puberty, will it be strong enough to incline them toward one gender or the other?

I suspect the process is highly individual, but the most powerful influence will be their value judgments, not their hormones. Hormonal release is an effect. The cause is their fundamental value orientation, which is established by a lifetime of personal choices.

I hope that clarifies things.

 

[Intruder04]

Fascinating.

A more detailed version would be blue cheese makes your kids gay like hell.

 

[Eli26]

Well, we can always Stepford wire the kids, right? Right?! No? Anyone? *crickets in the distance*

 

[surfin4]

BG...



The Spartans were feminists? Do you mean the Mary Wollstonecroft branch of the philosophy, or the Simone de Beauvoir branch? Have you been to prison? Was it for blowing up cars? Was that an expression of repressed feminism? Why do capuchins read radical social theory? To stick it to the man? Show him he has an orifice too? Or just to prove that Popery is superior to church in a tent?



I flirt with just about everyone on this board, but not you..........damn thats disapointing i was gonna get you fitted for a saddle anyhooooo...............i thought the greeks and spartans were more into young boys not yet out of puberty, you know there is an arabic proverb.... Have sex with a woman for offspring,a goat for relief,a boy for pleasure and a melon for ecstasy........anybody into melons?

 

[jye4ever]

If George Lucas had his way, he would jam in a love the PT chromosome into every birth.

 

[devilof76]

........damn thats disapointing i was gonna get you fitted for a saddle

I bet you say that to all the capitalists.

 

[surfin4]

I bet you say that to all the capitalists.

only the ones i think i could ride home.

 

[BilboBilly]

I would choose straight because I am straight and if I had a child, I'd want him or her to be straight. That is best for me.

 

[devilof76]

only the ones i think i could ride home.

That's the kind of thinking that always ends with some arrogant bigot getting their *** handed to them by what they thought was a stupid American. I didn't realize how British you were. Now I know.

 

[surfin4]

That's the kind of thinking that always ends with some arrogant bigot getting their *** handed to them by what they thought was a stupid American. I didn't realize how British you were. Now I know.

You dont know who to try and offend do you? ......come here you

 

[devilof76]

So you're an Orangeboy, huh?

 

[xjamiex]