If the Marvel line doesn't...

[El Roranous]

If the Marvel Line from Sideshow doesn't calm down soon I think it may be doomed to repeat what happened to the Sideshow Weta line. From what I understand, many (speculators) jumped in to the Weta line towards the end as an investment and then it all went downhill from there because of large edition sizes and so forth. What do you guys think? Some of these prices are getting extreme. On ebay there is a Doom for a Buy it Now of $2000! Furthermore Captain America has one of the largest exclusive sizes we have seen to date. Will this progression continue?

Correct me if I am wrong. Maybe I am just scared because I would like the Marvel line to remain healthy and secure for a long, long time. I just love this line so much and I wouldn't want to see it end because of an "artificial" demand.

And yes, I do know that I am probably over-reacting but hey, that's what these forums are for sometimes- nerds gettting stressed.



EDIT! I hope that this initial post doesn't come off as me being overly concerned about money and profit. The Marvel line is my baby and I just want it to live and prosper in a healthy manner. I want Sideshow to continue to make quality statues because we love them. This thread is about fearing the worst- which is the end of the Marvel line due to a disruption in it's natural course. Sorry to come off as redundant now but I hope that you will read on and see what was discussed. Thanks

 

[Bullseye]

Oversaturation of the market will be the biggest concern for all companies. Run sizes appear to be determined on orders placed over a specific time. I think we will see a mixture of low, medium and high (being 1000 and upwards) continue with SS. My only concern is that the same character appears to be released within a short period of time in all formats, example, Doom PF, Doom bust and Doom weapons set. I doubt we will see a Doom in a versus piece but then again you never know.

 

[hairlesswookiee]

agree with most of what you are saying. to be honest i never heard of sideshow until the star wars line came out. now i believe that the marvel line is starting to get popular as they are getting better and better. i didnt really like the first couple marvel PF and not so much a diehard fan of the Vs. line. now it seems that many previous bowen only collectors are jumping the fence and upping the value of the sideshow pieces.

 

[El Roranous]

What I hope is that this is a swing. Like during certain time periods these pieces get really desirable but then the market cools down. I am all for our pieces and collections increasing in value but I really fear that if the upward slope continues it may be detrimental to the line in the end. I want the Marvel line to continue making home-runs but what will be the outcome if they do?

 

[The ill Jedi]

I didn't get into the Marvel line for the investment, I got into it because I love Marvel and have always dreamt of having cool s#!t of my favorite Superheroes. As far as edition sizes, I'm not too concerned, Cap was one of Marvel's most popular characters thus he needed a slight jump in edition size, similar to what SSC did with Maul. Plus I don't think that the Marvel line is Doomed (no pun intended) to suffer the same fate as the LOTR line, there are so many characters they can do and it's popularity increases everyday.

 

[Boba Fett]

I don't think the line is doomed either, but I do know my wallet will be if they keep up with all these new releases.

 

[El Roranous]

I didn't get into the Marvel line for the investment, I got into it because I love Marvel and have always dreamt of having cool s#!t of my favorite Superheroes. As far as edition sizes, I'm not too concerned, Cap was one of Marvel's most popular characters thus he needed a slight jump in edition size, similar to what SSC did with Maul. Plus I don't think that the Marvel line is Doomed (no pun intended) to suffer the same fate as the LOTR line, there are so many characters they can do and it's popularity increases everyday.

Whether you see it as an investment or not, others may and that's what I am worried about. My main concern is over-saturation leading to an ultimate decline in production- to Sideshow eventually shutting down the line because it went South. Now you all know that I love my Marvel, so I would be incredibly devastated if it all went poof or should I say boom.

Yes, I know that I am traveling down a slippery slope here but I just can't help myself.

 

[hairlesswookiee]

just give me a freaking Daredevil PF and a cooler Spiderman PF down the road and i'll be happy!!!

 

[Karma]

I may be mistake but didn't weta have the say in the extreme edition sizes of the lotr line?

sideshow were just the distributors

 

[Azog]

I agree with Bullseye's statement, oversaturation is the biggest problem facing the hobby...marvel is so quick to let there license out to differing companies, however its companies like SS and Bowen that make a product that far surpasses anything other companies are currently doing in regards to marvel statues..

 

[Karma]

You only have to quote Jerry Macaluso (former owner of SOTA Toys, current owner of Pop Culture Shock Collectibles) to see how high regarded sideshow are held within the industry

I've been a huge Sideshow fan for a long time and I think they are heads and tails above every one else in both business model and artistic vision. So when they showed interest in working with me and the new company I was thrilled and gladly gave them Shin Akuma.

 

[El Roranous]

I may be mistake but didn't weta have the say in the extreme edition sizes of the lotr line?

sideshow were just the distributors

I hope so.

This is my main concern, others who are unfamiliar with how the market works and what these things are all about will jump on the chance to make a "killing". Here is my slippery slope. They see how well Doom did or is doing then they jump on the next piece. Sideshow thinks the demand is growing but really it's "artificial", they increase the ES of many pieces- market bottoms out leaving near "worthless collectibles" behind. Sideshow stops making more fabulous Marvel pieces because it's just not as profitable as it once was

 

[customizerwannabe]

I think the WETA LOTR line was doomed because it was finite. They covered the movies very well and there was little left to make. When a line dies the interest and the value decreases. Note that all of the pieces considered "grails" in that line still go for several times their issue price. Also, while there are a huge number of LOTR fans, the numbers pale in comparison to comic book fans.

Marvel is infinite. They keep introducing new characters, and the possibilities for the future are limitless. That said, oversaturation can still be damaging. I counted over 270 Bowen sculptures listed on toy tracker's site. That line is still producing and still maintains some pretty good aftermarket values. SS has 61 (more or less) pieces produced so far. WETA produced 184 pieces for the LOTR line.

I think if SS plays it smart and continues to walk that fine line of producing enough to keep the interest there while at the same time not oversaturating with too much product, the line will thrive. Anyway, that's my disertation on it.

 

[The ill Jedi]

I think the WETA LOTR line was doomed because it was finite. They covered the movies very well and there was little left to make. When a line dies the interest and the value decreases. Note that all of the pieces considered "grails" in that line still go for several times their issue price. Also, while there are a huge number of LOTR fans, the numbers pale in comparison to comic book fans.

Marvel is infinite. They keep introducing new characters, and the possibilities for the future are limitless. That said, oversaturation can still be damaging. I counted over 270 Bowen sculptures listed on toy tracker's site. That line is still producing and still maintains some pretty good aftermarket values. SS has 61 (more or less) pieces produced so far. WETA produced 184 pieces for the LOTR line.

I think if SS plays it smart and continues to walk that fine line of producing enough to keep the interest there while at the same time not oversaturating with too much product, the line will thrive. Anyway, that's my disertation on it.

Very well said!

 

[The Mike]

Agreeing with most of what was said here I don't think SS has any worries amongst Marvel, they are making "generic" superhero sculpts of these characters and with the White Queen Comiquette slowly branching into Artist Specific products, if you go Artist Specific your options are amazing, if you go generic you still have a ton of room, not to mention Silver Age, Modern Age, Alternative Universes, Possible Futures, Specific Storylines....whether or not we can keep up or not is the real question but I think the Marvel line will be more of a foothold for SSC than the Star Wars line IMHO. With Iconic characters a larger ES doesn't really scare me not to mention that the "Death" of Cap will drive sales of that PF on its own. When they start offering large ES for second tier characters then I'll be worried about the line, when there is a 3000 ES for an exclusive Aunt May PF, then I'll be worried until then I'm just trying to keep my wallet on lifesupport to keep running with this line. I like the Marvel offerings so much I'm even considering throwing out the "completist" idea of the Star Wars line and even thinning out that collection a bit....

 

[customizerwannabe]

I like the Marvel offerings so much I'm even considering throwing out the "completist" idea of the Star Wars line and even thinning out that collection a bit....

We park our car in the same garage(a GEO can fit anywhere!) I've sold off most of my horror PF's and all of my Star Wars line in search of the Marvel Holy Grails.

 

[Darth Loki]

Captain America is the only piece so far that I think has too high of an ES. Hulk only had 1000, and he's one of the most popular characters out there. For the most part, I think the ES's are perfect for both regular and exclusives. I, like everyone else, don't want to see that change. If the exclusives start selling out like mad becuase of potential flippers, it's hard to imagine SS not increasing ES's. Marvel isn't SS's most popular line (SW wins big time) but it certainly is their best. There are some amazing SW items (Grievous and Maul bust) but the number of amazing Marvel pieces blows it out of the water. I can't think of one SW piece that would be considered a 'grail', while Marvel has at least 6. I really hope SS never allows people to order 2 of an exclusive again, it's just begging people to flip them.

 

[El Roranous]

Captain America is the only piece so far that I think has too high of an ES. Hulk only had 1000, and he's one of the most popular characters out there. For the most part, I think the ES's are perfect for both regular and exclusives. I, like everyone else, don't want to see that change. If the exclusives start selling out like mad becuase of potential flippers, it's hard to imagine SS not increasing ES's. Marvel isn't SS's most popular line (SW wins big time) but it certainly is their best. There are some amazing SW items (Grievous and Maul bust) but the number of amazing Marvel pieces blows it out of the water. I can't think of one SW piece that would be considered a 'grail', while Marvel has at least 6. I really hope SS never allows people to order 2 of an exclusive again, it's just begging people to flip them.

I agree, the ES's have been very well chosen. The main reason I started this thread was to address if a change was coming or about to happen, a watershed in the Marvel line if you will. I chose the Cap to be my example for the beginning of the end. It's dramatic and unlikely but still worth discussing.

It's hard to say what will happen to the Marvel line in the future but I hope that is stays strong and steady. I hope Sideshow does it justice and we all remain happy with the results because I know I am as of now.

 

[customizerwannabe]

it's just begging people to flip them.

Dude, you have got to understand flipping is a good thing. If people don't flip and only hardcores buy this stuff, how often do you think anyone will get a chance to pick up a piece they missed or developed an interest in gettting later? Flipping is not only a good thing, it is a NECESSARY part of this hobby if you want to continue to see it flourish.

How can the Cap ES be too large if it sold out months ago? All of these people(myself included) want one and were too late to order it. I'll pay a jacked up ebay price if I have to. If flippers didn't buy them, there would be none on ebay and interest in the piece would die. If I couldn't have gotten grails from flippers, I wouldn't have bothered going into the Marvel line.

Buy this stuff because you like it. Not because you know only 499 other people can have the same piece. That's twisted anyways.

Not trying to sound like I'm attacking you, because I'm not. Just attacking this flawed logic that flipping is bad. It isn't. Plain and simple.

 

[Darth Loki]

Dude, you have got to understand flipping is a good thing. If people don't flip and only hardcores buy this stuff, how often do you think anyone will get a chance to pick up a piece they missed or developed an interest in gettting later? Flipping is not only a good thing, it is a NECESSARY part of this hobby if you want to continue to see it flourish.

How can the Cap ES be too large if it sold out months ago? All of these people(myself included) want one and were too late to order it. I'll pay a jacked up ebay price if I have to. If flippers didn't buy them, there would be none on ebay and interest in the piece would die. If I couldn't have gotten grails from flippers, I wouldn't have bothered going into the Marvel line.

Buy this stuff because you like it. Not because you know only 499 other people can have the same piece. That's twisted anyways.

Not trying to sound like I'm attacking you, because I'm not. Just attacking this flawed logic that flipping is bad. It isn't. Plain and simple.

Buying an item with the sole intent to sell it the day you have it at a higher price is bad.

Buying an item, watching it soar in value, then deciding to sell it, is fine.

I can assure you I didn't pay retail for my Doom Exclusive. I understand the game but how many times have we seen rare items snatched up by the greedy to be sold at 2-3 times what they paid for it? That's what's frustrating to me.

I can say one thing about the Marvel line, it is nice knowing that these do rise in value. That's not why I collect them (hell I own almost every SW PF and they do nothing but drop).