1/6 Hot Toys MMS351 Captain America: Civil War The Winter Soldier Collectible Figure

[TräshCät]

See, and that is exactly what makes me not wanna read that comic. That comment you quoted. It just makes me go "eh no, thank you. I'm fine with the MCU Buck." One of my main issues with comics is, I really don't like to have different versions of a character. I prefer to have Fraction's Hawkeye and honestly have no desire to read any other. I like the characters in the MCU and that's enough for me, don't need 20 different authors writing my fave characters, each a bit different. Moreover, I hate the "x character died but don't worry he comes back to life" thing.

Btw, I apologise to everyone who comes here expecting pics or discussion about the figure. XD I'll stop now!

 

[SilverStar17]

Yeah, to each his own.

I just don't see MCU WS that way. Cap's opponent? Yes, definitely. But not a villain. A villain can make his/her own decisions, WS just does what he's told. Like a foot soldier who kills because the higher-ups tell him too or coz it's either kill or be killed. But yeah, just my opinion, not trying to argue here.

Antagonist is the word you're looking for ; )

How exactly is Captain America the antagonist? TWS was in an antagonistic role, serving as the opponent on an individual level for the protagonist, which was Captain America.

I mean I get what you guys are saying, that Bucky was brainwashed and the decisions he made weren't his own, but for all intents and purposes, he played a villainous role in TWS.

 

[TräshCät]

How exactly is Captain America the antagonist? TWS was in an antagonistic role, serving as the opponent on an individual level for the protagonist, which was Captain America.

I mean I get what you guys are saying, that Bucky was brainwashed and the decisions he made weren't his own, but for all intents and purposes, he played a villainous role in TWS.

The point is that "villain" and "antagonist" aren't the same thing. Pierce is the villain/antagonist in TWS, Loki is the villain/antagonist in Avengers and while the Winter Soldier is the antagonist in TWS, he's not the villain. A villain is the antagonist most of the time but doesn't have to be while the antagonist can be the villain but again, doesn't have to be. The antagonist is simply the one oposing the protagonist (Cap) but that doesn't mean he's an evil person. He might just stand on the wrong side of the battle field but can be a very good guy. It's just that his role has him set against the protagonist. The villain however is the bad guy. He's doing evil stuff, hurting people etc. because he chooses to, because he believes he's right etc. "Villain" describes a character type while "antagonist" only describes the role a character plays.

 

[Captain Planet]

Don't post pics often but this figure is pretty great. I threw in my Hawkeye real quick and snapped a few cell phone pics.



The picture is pretty bad quality.

 

[kurisuchie2kimi]

How exactly is Captain America the antagonist? TWS was in an antagonistic role, serving as the opponent on an individual level for the protagonist, which was Captain America.

I mean I get what you guys are saying, that Bucky was brainwashed and the decisions he made weren't his own, but for all intents and purposes, he played a villainous role in TWS.

I didn't say Cap was the antagonist You said that you meant, in regards to Winter Soldier, that he was "the villain as far as being the match for the protagonist" - my comment was that the word you were looking for, to describe Winter, was "antagonist". The villain of CA: TWS was Alexander Pierce and Hydra. The antagonist, however, which is - as you said - the oppositional role to the protagonist, was the Winter Soldier. A villain is a character with truly evil intentions and goals, an antagonist is a character who opposes the protagonist, but does not have an evil mindset or goals - antagonist can apply to characters that just rival other characters too, but don't necessarily want them dead

 

[SilverStar17]

The point is that "villain" and "antagonist" aren't the same thing. Pierce is the villain/antagonist in TWS, Loki is the villain/antagonist in Avengers and while the Winter Soldier is the antagonist in TWS, he's not the villain. A villain is the antagonist most of the time but doesn't have to be while the antagonist can be the villain but again, doesn't have to be. The antagonist is simply the one oposing the protagonist (Cap) but that doesn't mean he's an evil person. He might just stand on the wrong side of the battle field but can be a very good guy. It's just that his role has him set against the protagonist. The villain however is the bad guy. He's doing evil stuff, hurting people etc. because he chooses to, because he believes he's right etc. "Villain" describes a character type while "antagonist" only describes the role a character plays.

I didn't say Cap was the antagonist You said that you meant, in regards to Winter Soldier, that he was "the villain as far as being the match for the protagonist" - my comment was that the word you were looking for, to describe Winter, was "antagonist". The villain of CA: TWS was Alexander Pierce and Hydra. The antagonist, however, which is - as you said - the oppositional role to the protagonist, was the Winter Soldier. A villain is a character with truly evil intentions and goals, an antagonist is a character who opposes the protagonist, but does not have an evil mindset or goals - antagonist can apply to characters that just rival other characters too, but don't necessarily want them dead

Villain: (in a film, novel or play) a character whose evil actions or motives are important to the plot

I don't see how assassinating (or attempting) someone isn't an evil action?

https://villains.wikia.com/wiki/Winter_Soldier_(Marvel_Cinematic_Universe)

https://villains.wikia.com/wiki/Winter_Soldier

I'm aware that the main villain was HYDRA and that Bucky was merely being used as a pawn of them, I get that. However, he was in a villainous role in and as TWS.

So my point is that with my TWS figure, I have him displayed as TWS, which is a villain, and the CW figure represents him as Bucky.

 

[TräshCät]

Villain: (in a film, novel or play) a character whose evil actions or motives are important to the plot

I don't see how assassinating (or attempting) someone isn't an evil action?

https://villains.wikia.com/wiki/Winter_Soldier_(Marvel_Cinematic_Universe)

https://villains.wikia.com/wiki/Winter_Soldier

I'm aware that the main villain was HYDRA and that Bucky was merely being used as a pawn of them, I get that. However, he was in a villainous role in and as TWS.

So my point is that with my TWS figure, I have him displayed as TWS, which is a villain, and the CW figure represents him as Bucky.

Because as I said, a villain is a bad person. A villain is evil and everything he does he does because he wants to. Red Skull chooses to do evil things, Loki chooses to do evil things, same for Pierce who believes in what Hydra is doing and thinks it's fine treating a person like an object. WS is not a villain because even though he fights Cap and killed lots of people it wasn’t his choice. He was brainwashed, tortured, mind-controlled and if he would have had any free will, he'd not do the things Hydra made him do. He simply is the antagonist who ultimately even saves Cap's life but not a villain.

You're using villain and antagonist interchangeably which in some cases is fine but in others, like this here, is not coz again, they mean different things.

WS didn't play a villainous role, he played the role of the antagonist. Pierce also played the role of the antagonist BUT his motives, actions, character and general mindset make him the villain.

In The Avengers for example, due to mind-control Hawkeye becomes an antagonist for parts of the movie but not the villain, that's Loki.

 

[SilverStar17]

Because as I said, a villain is a bad person. A villain is evil and everything he does he does because he wants to. Red Skull chooses to do evil things, Loki chooses to do evil things, same for Pierce who believes in what Hydra is doing and thinks it's fine treating a person like an object. WS is not a villain because even though he fights Cap and killed lots of people it wasn’t his choice. He was brainwashed, tortured, mind-controlled and if he would have had any free will, he'd not do the things Hydra made him do. He simply is the antagonist who ultimately even saves Cap's life but not a villain.

You're using villain and antagonist interchangeably which in some cases is fine but in others, like this here, is not coz again, they mean different things.

WS didn't play a villainous role, he played the role of the antagonist. Pierce also played the role of the antagonist BUT his motives, actions, character and general mindset make him the villain.

I'm aware that HYDRA was the main villain and using Bucky as a pawn, I understood and followed the plot of TWS remarkably well. However, as TWS, he was in a villainous role.

Villain: (in a film, novel or play) a character whose evil actions or motives are important to the plot

Assassinating people wasn't his own motive, no. He was demonstrably brainwashed. However, the action of assassinating someone is evil.

He is even described in both a MU and MCU profile as being a villain.

 

[TräshCät]

I see that you just don't want to understand the difference between someone being an evil person and someone doing bad things because he's forced to, so I choose to end this here and let the thread return to talk about a plastic figure.

Don't post pics often but this figure is pretty great. I threw in my Hawkeye real quick and snapped a few cell phone pics.

View attachment 328083

The picture is pretty bad quality.

Congrats on getting him! He sure is looking great. Haa, I wonder when mine will finally show up ... most likely not before April. T_T

 

[kurisuchie2kimi]

I'm aware that HYDRA was the main villain and using Bucky as a pawn, I understood and followed the plot of TWS remarkably well. However, as TWS, he was in a villainous role.

Villain: (in a film, novel or play) a character whose evil actions or motives are important to the plot

Assassinating people wasn't his own motive, no. He was demonstrably brainwashed. However, the action of assassinating someone is evil.

He is even described in both a MU and MCU profile as being a villain.

Call Winter/Bucky a villain in front of Sebastian Stan and he'll argue that

But anyway dude, I wasn't bringing up the word antagonist to get in some sort of weird fight with you, I was only bringing it up because from what I read of the conversation you seemed to not know the word you were referring to, so I provided it. Didn't mean to stand on your tail and get you worked up or whatever, I wasn't trying to start a fight, but you seem to have taken it that way. My bad. Me and my film degree will take our knowledge and shove off now.

 

[kurisuchie2kimi]

Don't post pics often but this figure is pretty great. I threw in my Hawkeye real quick and snapped a few cell phone pics.

View attachment 328083

The picture is pretty bad quality.

Great set up! I still need to get Bucky, but he'll definitely be posed with my other Team Cap figs.

 

[enzolt]

Don't post pics often but this figure is pretty great. I threw in my Hawkeye real quick and snapped a few cell phone pics.

View attachment 328083

The picture is pretty bad quality.

I like how Winter soldier is doing splits

 

[TräshCät]

I'd love to do a full Team Cap display but there's just not enough room in a Detolf. I planned to display Buck here with Cap and Falcon but the latter might end up on his own due to his wings' size. XD

 

[SilverStar17]

I see that you just don't want to understand the difference between someone being an evil person and someone doing bad things because he's forced to, so I choose to end this here and let the thread return to talk about a plastic figure.

Call Winter/Bucky a villain in front of Sebastian Stan and he'll argue that

But anyway dude, I wasn't bringing up the word antagonist to get in some sort of weird fight with you, I was only bringing it up because from what I read of the conversation you seemed to not know the word you were referring to, so I provided it. Didn't mean to stand on your tail and get you worked up or whatever, I wasn't trying to start a fight, but you seem to have taken it that way. My bad. Me and my film degree will take our knowledge and shove off now.

Not "worked up" or "fighting" at all.

I'm just simply basing this on what the actual definition of the word "villain" is, and I don't see how TWS's actions in TWS (and flashbacks in CW) don't fit that. Not to mention both the MU and MCU databases characterize TWS as a villain. I understand you guys like the character, or have a soft spot for it and/or the actor; I like the character also (wouldn't have both, let alone one figure of him if I didn't), but like the adage says, facts don't care about your feelings.

It's all good though.

Don't post pics often but this figure is pretty great. I threw in my Hawkeye real quick and snapped a few cell phone pics.

View attachment 328083

The picture is pretty bad quality.

Nice. Looks good to me.

 

[IarnaOrgana]

facts don't care about your feelings

A favorite adage of mine

First off, Bucky is probably my favorite character in the MCU. That being said, I think Bucky absolutely blurs the line between antagonist and villain in TWS (and the semi-ridiculous he-can-be-triggered-again subplot in CW, but I digress). Fully brainwashed/controlled, the Winter Soldier - while not evil by any stretch - is deadly, efficient, and merciless. He "kills" Fury, kills Sitwell, and nearly kills Sam, Natasha and Steve. Yes, Pierce is the bigger baddie, but Marvel marketed Bucky as the villain of TWS and he did serve as the primary physical threat throughout the movie. He's sympathetic and endearing because of his tragic past, but he makes a heck of a villain for the first part of the film before his true identity and Cap's connection to him is revealed. Some of my favorite parts of TWS are the Winter Soldier being the unshakeable, cold-blooded (ha pun), take-no-prisoners "bad" guy. I love the friendship, heart-to-heart scenes with Cap too, but damn if Bucky isn't cool (ha pun again) as the brutal Russian assassin.

Antagonist? Villain? In essence,

 

[IndyMOS]

Bucky isn't really the true villain of TWS as he's brainwashed yes, but that figure can definitely be used as a villain in a display considering what he did in that state as the Winter Soldier. Like SilverStar said if you have both figures that gives you the option of displaying Bucky both ways. Friend and foe.

 

[SilverStar17]

A favorite adage of mine

First off, Bucky is probably my favorite character in the MCU. That being said, I think Bucky absolutely blurs the line between antagonist and villain in TWS (and the semi-ridiculous he-can-be-triggered-again subplot in CW, but I digress). Fully brainwashed/controlled, the Winter Soldier - while not evil by any stretch - is deadly, efficient, and merciless. He "kills" Fury, kills Sitwell, and nearly kills Sam, Natasha and Steve. Yes, Pierce is the bigger baddie, but Marvel marketed Bucky as the villain of TWS and he did serve as the primary physical threat throughout the movie. He's sympathetic and endearing because of his tragic past, but he makes a heck of a villain for the first part of the film before his true identity and Cap's connection to him is revealed. Some of my favorite parts of TWS are the Winter Soldier being the unshakeable, cold-blooded (ha pun), take-no-prisoners "bad" guy. I love the friendship, heart-to-heart scenes with Cap too, but damn if Bucky isn't cool (ha pun again) as the brutal Russian assassin.

Antagonist? Villain? In essence,

View attachment 328103

Bucky isn't really the true villain of TWS as he's brainwashed yes, but that figure can definitely be used as a villain in a display considering what he did in that state as the Winter Soldier. Like SilverStar said if you have both figures that gives you the option of displaying Bucky both ways. Friend and foe.

He wasn't the big villain in TWS, no, there was someone higher pulling the strings obviously. But TWS is a villainous role.

TWS figure is displayed as the deadly Soviet HYDRA assassin; mask on, decked out with guns and melee weapons. The CW figure is displayed as Bucky, Steve Rogers's friend.

 

[kurisuchie2kimi]

Not "worked up" or "fighting" at all.

I'm just simply basing this on what the actual definition of the word "villain" is, and I don't see how TWS's actions in TWS (and flashbacks in CW) don't fit that. Not to mention both the MU and MCU databases characterize TWS as a villain. I understand you guys like the character, or have a soft spot for it and/or the actor; I like the character also (wouldn't have both, let alone one figure of him if I didn't), but like the adage says, facts don't care about your feelings.

It's all good though.



Nice. Looks good to me.

Honestly dude, I'm not even involved with the whole villain vs antagonist conversation that you and TrashCat were having, I honest to god just read your conversation, saw you saying things like 'villain but not villain but opposing protagonist' and just offered you the single word of 'antagonist', I was only giving you the word, like maybe you'd forgotten it or something. Regardless of how I feel about Bucky as a character, I was in all actuality just offering you the word, then you started saying things like was I really saying Cap was the antagonist and that wasn't what I was saying at all? I don't even know where that came from. I was just giving you the word! I was never involved with the debate to start with!

 

[SilverStar17]

Honestly dude, I'm not even involved with the whole villain vs antagonist conversation that you and TrashCat were having, I honest to god just read your conversation, saw you saying things like 'villain but not villain but opposing protagonist' and just offered you the single word of 'antagonist', I was only giving you the word, like maybe you'd forgotten it or something. Regardless of how I feel about Bucky as a character, I was in all actuality just offering you the word, then you started saying things like was I really saying Cap was the antagonist and that wasn't what I was saying at all? I don't even know where that came from. I was just giving you the word! I was never involved with the debate to start with!

I thought you meant with that initial post of yours that I was transposing the words "antagonist" and "protagonist." That I incorrectly labeled Cap as the protagonist. So that's why I was like huh, how's he an antagonist?

 

[kurisuchie2kimi]

I thought you meant with that initial post of yours that I was transposing the words "antagonist" and "protagonist." That I incorrectly labeled Cap as the protagonist. So that's why I was like huh, how's he an antagonist?

Nope, that's why I bolded what you were describing and said what I said in my initial post, I didn't realise it would be taken the wrong way