Hot Toys Issues Infringement Notice

[Waste Time Continuum]

In my opinion, the overall theme of those opposed to this letter, IS hating on Hot Toys. But thats my opinion. I'm not asking you to agree with me. Nor am I forcing the way I feel down anyones throat. All I did was ask a simple question. I actually don't care much about the letter or whether its right or wrong. People here get offended quite easily........about toys.....

Haha! I like this guy.


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[Sassafras]

100% agree. I think most people appreciate the artists, and most really love Hot Toys. but there are some that don't and like to express they don't over and over. It been going on for years and years, yet HTs is more successful than ever and they grow every year, and to me their artistry gets better every year. Some might not think so, but whatever...

Agree. For one thing, for hundreds of years, well-crafted toys ARE works of art in their own right. It's no small thing to craft moving parts, costumes to scale - which you see in better made items/toys. Dolls made with lifelike blown glass eyes. Real hair. To-scale accessories. The art of being able to successfully miniaturize.

HT IMO has set a high bar for mass-produced, screen accurate, "dolls/figures" whatever. Folks here have listed negative things about HT - I'd add the place where HT trips is when they DO cut corners re materials. That being said, re any KO for me it's a risk as to what I'll end up with. At least there's a certain comfort level about a genuine HT. And at times likenesses that are hard to tell from a photograph of a person. Mass-produced, but I'd call that art.

 

[franpincho]

People writing essays about dollies, and calling them art.LOL.

I love SSF.

 

[ali032373]

Agree. For one thing, for hundreds of years, well-crafted toys ARE works of art in their own right. It's no small thing to craft moving parts, costumes to scale - which you see in better made items/toys. Dolls made with lifelike blown glass eyes. Real hair. To-scale accessories. The art of being able to successfully miniaturize.

HT IMO has set a high bar for mass-produced, screen accurate, "dolls/figures" whatever. Folks here have listed negative things about HT - I'd add the place where HT trips is when they DO cut corners re materials. That being said, re any KO for me it's a risk as to what I'll end up with. At least there's a certain comfort level about a genuine HT. And at times likenesses that are hard to tell from a photograph of a person. Mass-produced, but I'd call that art.

Well put.

And Ive yet to see a "Medicom wish list".

 

[RIDDICK]

I guess that makes HT's "Secret Base" store a museum...
Gentlemen! Let's broaden our minds. Lawrence?

 

[Plastic Bateman]

Hot Toys don't make art, they make product. Yes, very talented artists like KA Kim and JC Hong work on the prototypes, but the end result is a mass-produced commodity. You wouldn't call a utility van with a production run of 3,000 units a work of art, most Hot Toys production runs are three times that or more at this stage.

Something mass-produced by definition can't be art. It can have artistic merit (an excellent sculpt, brilliant paint application, etc), but don't delude yourself into thinking it's anything more than a very fancy GI Joe/Barbie.

 

[morphosis]

Hot Toys don't make art, they make product. Yes, very talented artists like KA Kim and JC Hong work on the prototypes, but the end result is a mass-produced commodity. You wouldn't call a utility van with a production run of 3,000 units a work of art, most Hot Toys production runs are three times that or more at this stage.

Something mass-produced by definition can't be art. It can have artistic merit (an excellent sculpt, brilliant paint application, etc), but don't delude yourself into thinking it's anything more than a very fancy GI Joe/Barbie.

a mass produced poster is considered art. mass produced statues. mass produced music is art. A car could even be considered art.
Just because its mass produced doesn't mean it can't be art. Most things that are creative, visual, and take a certain skill you can consider as art.

 

[DiFabio]

And a happy finish if the production closely matches a good prototype.

Hot Toys hasn't given me a happy ending in a long time. Now they keep trying to charge me more for one. Little whores.

 

[enzolt]

a mass produced poster is considered art. mass produced statues. mass produced music is art. A car could even be considered art.
Just because its mass produced doesn't mean it can't be art. Most things that are creative, visual, and take a certain skill you can consider as art.

Thank you! Ding ding ding! We got a winner of the Reason Award.

 

[ali032373]

a mass produced poster is considered art. mass produced statues. mass produced music is art. A car could even be considered art.
Just because its mass produced doesn't mean it can't be art. Most things that are creative, visual, and take a certain skill you can consider as art.

I think your argumnet is fantastic. And i agree with you.

But to play devils advocate what if the response to the same was that the mass manufacturing of cds or art prints is just that. That artistic part occurred when the song was written and/or played. The artistic part occurred when the print was drawn or painted. Once that takes place the artistic aspect has concluded. Now, youre not making art, youre just reproducing it.

 

[DiFabio]

If a mass produced item can be considered art, then anything can be considered art.


That would involve the very bootlegs that are being recreated here. There's an art to mimicking and replicating products, especially if it's going as far as the clothing and packaging. Hell, there are a good amount of collectors that collect knock offs because of the aesthetic and quirkiness they offer! Something that's a point of contention in this very thread.


So if we're going to double down and say our Iron Man, Star Wars and Batman dollies that are strewn over Walmart and IKEA shelves are art, then it can damn near be applied to everything.

 

[ali032373]

If a mass produced item can be considered art, then anything can be considered art.


That would involve the very bootlegs that are being recreated here. There's an art to mimicking and replicating products, especially if it's going as far as the clothing and packaging. Hell, there are a good amount of collectors that collect knock offs because of the aesthetic and quirkiness they offer! Something that's a point of contention in this very thread.

Great point. But it's off from the tide of the thread on if a HT mass produced figure is art. But what you raise opens the door further. And i think your point is well stated.

And ultimately we're dancing around the topic of "what is art?"

And it really comes down to eye of the beholder.

 

[HDGuy84]

Great point. But it's off from the tide of the thread on if a HT mass produced figure is art. But what you raise opens the door further. And i think your point is well stated.

And ultimately we're dancing around the topic of "what is art?"

And it really comes down to eye of the beholder.

Brooke Ence and Brooke Wells are art.

 

[morphosis]

I think your argumnet is fantastic. And i agree with you.

But to play devils advocate what if the response to the same was that the mass manufacturing of cds or art prints is just that. That artistic part occurred when the song was written and/or played. The artistic part occurred when the print was drawn or painted. Once that takes place the artistic aspect has concluded. Now, youre not making art, youre just reproducing it.

'what is art' is a never ending debate. I think it comes down to each individual of what art is to them.

creating art is an action, the piece of art is an object. its different things.

reproducing surely can be art. Like if someone records a David Bowie song and puts it on their album, that song is still art to me. They may be reproducing his song, but they are playing and creating music, creating art.

Bootlegs figures is a form of art to me as well. Its reproducing, but its also creating. Its not a form of art that I like, but its still art to me. Casting molds is creating art. Now if someone is just selling a parted out Hot Toys figure, they are not artists. But if they re-cast a figure, repaint it, and produce clothing for them, its art to me. Just not art that I like.

Picasso created works of art. They were reproduced a billion times as posters. That poster is now up on someones wall and that poster is art. It may not have the value of a original Picasso, but that poster is still art.

 

[Sassafras]

'what is art' is a never ending debate. I think it comes down to each individual of what art is to them.

creating art is an action, the piece of art is an object. its different things.

reproducing surely can be art. Like if someone records a David Bowie song and puts it on their album, that song is still art to me. They may be reproducing his song, but they are playing and creating music, creating art.

Bootlegs figures is a form of art to me as well. Its reproducing, but its also creating. Its not a form of art that I like, but its still art to me. Casting molds is creating art. Now if someone is just selling a parted out Hot Toys figure, they are not artists. But if they re-cast a figure, repaint it, and produce clothing for them, its art to me. Just not art that I like.

Picasso created works of art. They were reproduced a billion times as posters. That poster is now up on someones wall and that poster is art. It may not have the value of a original Picasso, but that poster is still art.

True enough IMO. And I'll add again that creating toys or "dollies" IS an art form - or a skill - that's commented often enough on indirectly on this forum alone. The proportion of a custom head to a body, likenesses, details, even the complaint that "HT hands are too big". Just getting proportions right is an "art skill". It may be reproduced art, but it's a form of art IMO. Whether you appreciate that, or consider it a "toy" etc. and dismiss it is subjective. (And why is it a cast poly piece seems to automatically be "art" while the same subject - who may have a better likeness in PVC - may be considered a "toy"? Even if the PVC/plastic figure is cast from an original sculpt and the costume is an original pattern, and the poly piece mold was digitally rendered by a computer?)

 

[jacerc130]

I can't help but think of this with Hot Toys trying to do the infringement notice....

PROFIT.......unlimted...PROFIT!!!!!!

 

[Sweet Rabbit]

'what is art' is a never ending debate. I think it comes down to each individual of what art is to them.

creating art is an action, the piece of art is an object. its different things.

reproducing surely can be art. Like if someone records a David Bowie song and puts it on their album, that song is still art to me. They may be reproducing his song, but they are playing and creating music, creating art.

Bootlegs figures is a form of art to me as well. Its reproducing, but its also creating. Its not a form of art that I like, but its still art to me. Casting molds is creating art. Now if someone is just selling a parted out Hot Toys figure, they are not artists. But if they re-cast a figure, repaint it, and produce clothing for them, its art to me. Just not art that I like.

Picasso created works of art. They were reproduced a billion times as posters. That poster is now up on someones wall and that poster is art. It may not have the value of a original Picasso, but that poster is still art.

Warhol prints are crazy expensive too

 

[morphosis]

Warhol prints are crazy expensive too

oh yes, definitely. many artists do prints, etchings, woodcuts, screen prints, letterpress, all of that are old art forms that are producing copies of their original. Some of it is reproduced by hand, some of it is by machine, some of it is both. Printing is an art form. Printing making, textiles, all forms of art. some of its commercial, some of it is for display and museums. So mass producing toys and figures is definitely an art form. Like vintage toys, i totally consider Vintage Star Wars figures little pieces of art. I love to look at them. The packaging is great and iconic. They are little pieces of art. Some may not like them or care about them, and thats fine. But im part of the community that really enjoys collecting them.

True enough IMO

. And I'll add again that creating toys or "dollies" IS an art form - or a skill - that's commented often enough on indirectly on this forum alone. The proportion of a custom head to a body, likenesses, details, even the complaint that "HT hands are too big". Just getting proportions right is an "art skill". It may be reproduced art, but it's a form of art IMO. Whether you appreciate that, or consider it a "toy" etc. and dismiss it is subjective. (And why is it a cast poly piece seems to automatically be "art" while the same subject - who may have a better likeness in PVC - may be considered a "toy"? Even if the PVC/plastic figure is cast from an original sculpt and the costume is an original pattern, and the poly piece mold was digitally rendered by a computer?)

Yeah its all sculpture, one of the oldest art forms there is. Even some of the masters in art history had their pieces reproduced for mass production, small and large quantities. Things can definitely be a product but also be art.

 

[jye4ever]

Man HT wasn't kidding

 

[DiFabio]

Where did you find that picture of me?