1/6 Hot Toys 1/6 Captain Marvel

[jedijim3002]

Well the MCU could face the same crossroads that marvel comics faced years ago that has brought their legacy to its death bed. Sales have been plummeting.

Instead of creating new diverse characters with unique backstories, superpowers, and names to add to their roster, they decided to take the existing white male characters and turn them either female or a different race. Nothing wrong with that in theory but there are a lot of non white fans who saw this as pandering and classic tokenism.

Not only is it lazy writing but it can be down right insulting. They went with feminist ideology and intersectionality and since a majority of people who buy comic books are male this was a bad business decision and they are suffering for it. Not even the female comic fans liked what they’ve done.

I’m not saying it’s right or wrong I’m just pointing out the facts.


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[Rbeato]

So if you don't have straight white male leads then it can't be a good film? Just asking not judging

I never said that once. I’m just stating facts when the comics pushed it to far and sales suffered.
I have no problem with diversity at all. Create new and exciting diverse characters. Please do, but characters that been around for decades....? Changing them just for the sake of diversity? GTFO

 

[Rbeato]

A perfect example. Miles Morales. They didn’t have to take Peter Parker and change his race/ sex. They kept him and created a new & exciting other Spider-Man.

 

[Phoenixblazes]

The thing is I don’t know how else they’ll get the needed readership numbers.

I’ll admit whenever they change the sex/race for a character it did throw me for a loop for a bit. But I honestly didn’t mind the Lady Thor issues all that much, and X-23 is a good character but her storyline’s are getting thin extremely quickly, however for me the Riri Williams IM felt like it didn’t have enough material behind it (which is sort of unfair because most mainstream titles have decades of history).

 

[Phoenixblazes]

A perfect example. Miles Morales. They didn’t have to take Peter Parker and change his race/ sex. They kept him and created a new & exciting other Spider-Man.

I’m not sure it’s completely the same as this character was allowed to breath and expand in the Ultimate universe. It seems that those in the 616 universe are given less time to succeed. And Spider-Man is Spidet-Man, everyone loves the many many iterations of the character.

 

[Saintv1]

Imagine if you lived in a country where the only restaurant you ever saw was McDonalds, and somebody finally opens a damn Taco Bell... Only for dudes to turn around and complain that tacos are being "forced" on them.


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[The Iron Koob]

Imagine if you lived in a country where the only restaurant you ever saw was McDonalds, and somebody finally opens a damn Taco Bell... Only for dudes to turn around and complain that tacos are being "forced" on them.


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But it's about Taco bell opening up because they independently have passion for what they're doing, not because they are trying to be "different" and it's actually just a lazy attempt propelled by diversity.

And in this scenario, if you don't like the new thing because you don't think it's good enough, the public declares you racist or sexist or something.

People say "My favorite moment was when her friend reminded her how she was a hero even before she got powers" and I'll say "Yeah but her friend basically telling her who she was to remember is actually terrible writing. Classic show don't tell mistake" but then somehow the conversation becomes about women instead of the film

 

[The Iron Koob]

I'm 50 and most of my close friends are between 40 and 60. Most are huge fans and love the MCU. I can't recall anyone ever saying this is for kids or not for "us". They are just fun movies and i guess most of us don't read into things to much.

I am very laid back i have had white, black, asian, mexican, etc girlfriends and worked/work with gay, trans people etc in medical/firefighting. I work with women firefighters who are just as tough as men firefighters. So to me those people on the screen kicking as and taking names who are not the standard straight white males are normal in real life to me.

Like i said as long as the films are done well i don't care if it's a 80 year old mixed race transsexual in the lead.

Right, I agree with what you're saying. I married a badass female athlete and coached several as well. Girls being powerful are nothing new to me.

But the last thing you said rings true the most. "As long as the films are done well." I don't think this one was done well and it gets a pass because of the whole female thing. Then you get Black Panther, which was good, being touted as Best Picture. On top of that, you've got this "family-friendly" vibe and they're starting to lay it on pretty thick. Fury's eye, Asgard's destruction. Even Thanos pulled his punches on his path to Vision in the most ridiculous ways. He literally covered Black Widow in dirt. 5 Infinity Stone + a Titan vs a human spy and he COVERS HER IN DIRT. He even left her mouth open so she could breath. Honestly wtf? He's willing to kill half the universe but not the people directly trying to stop him?

I don't know man. I don't think this is for me anymore.

I want the MCU to go in the direction of good films. I have no interest in going in the direction of diversity just for the sake of it.

 

[subzro]

Right, I agree with what you're saying. I married a badass female athlete and coached several as well. Girls being powerful are nothing new to me.

But the last thing you said rings true the most. "As long as the films are done well." I don't think this one was done well and it gets a pass because of the whole female thing. Then you get Black Panther, which was good, being touted as Best Picture. On top of that, you've got this "family-friendly" vibe and they're starting to lay it on pretty thick. Fury's eye, Asgard's destruction. Even Thanos pulled his punches on his path to Vision in the most ridiculous ways. He literally covered Black Widow in dirt. 5 Infinity Stone + a Titan vs a human spy and he COVERS HER IN DIRT. He even left her mouth open so she could breath. Honestly wtf? He's willing to kill half the universe but not the people directly trying to stop him?

I don't know man. I don't think this is for me anymore.

I want the MCU to go in the direction of good films. I have no interest in going in the direction of diversity just for the sake of it.

Maybe he was thinking of adopting Black Widow later since he had to ummm........let his last daughter go

 

[Saintv1]

But it's about Taco bell opening up because they independently have passion for what they're doing, not because they are trying to be "different" and it's actually just a lazy attempt propelled by diversity.

Movie studios are businesses who make product based on what they think will sell. Right now they think that representation is profitable and .. yep, they appear to be very correct.

Filmmakers, like comic creators, are artists and should have passion for what they do, for sure. But I don't think the people complaining have any special insight that allows them to determine whether the creators of these films and comics have passion, but I will say that based on everything I've seen and heard from the creators generating these products, they seem pretty bloody passionate to me.

If a movie studio decides to hire a female director to direct a female superhero movie, well, jeeze, it would be pretty hard NOT to find people passionate about that endeavour, whether or not the company has altruistic motives (companies never have altruistic motives). And.. big surprise, they found passionate people like Party Jenkins and Ryan Coogler who made killer movies, and movies that were artistically distinct from the products others were making.

I mean, damn, movie studios overwhelmingly picked white male leads for decades because that's what they thought would drive profit and none of us were complaining about the artistic integrity of that process. How is this any different?

I also think you're being pretty dismissive of the value of being different. Doing something different is something creative people get pretty passionate about, and something that can drive good art.

I think diversity matters on its own, and that driving more a inclusive creative industry is the right thing to do. But as someone who loves fiction, I also know it's a no-brainer that different voices drive new ideas and new content. Diversity of thought is a real thing, in business, in art, and in life. I can't stop consuming fiction, so yeah, I want companies to build diverse stables of creators who can bring diverse ideas to the table so I can read and watch what they have to say.

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[Phoenixblazes]

But it's about Taco bell opening up because they independently have passion for what they're doing, not because they are trying to be "different" and it's actually just a lazy attempt propelled by diversity.

And in this scenario, if you don't like the new thing because you don't think it's good enough, the public declares you racist or sexist or something.

People say "My favorite moment was when her friend reminded her how she was a hero even before she got powers" and I'll say "Yeah but her friend basically telling her who she was to remember is actually terrible writing. Classic show don't tell mistake" but then somehow the conversation becomes about women instead of the film

There’s nothing wrong with not liking a film/s. If you don’t like it, you don’t like it. Not all films are made for everyone as it’s all subjective. I know a lot of people who just plain refuse to watch any comic book based movie.

I honestly think Infinity War was the best thing since sliced bread kind of movie. But I know that’s only because I’m fully invested in the franchise.

But at the same time while I liked Captain Marvel, I probably enjoyed 10 other MCU films even more. And while I think Captain Marvel was better structured than Aquaman, I had more fun at the theatre watching the Aquaman movie (which I had quite a few nitpicks with).

My only issue with a certain segment of the audience is where their dislike of the film always starts and ends with the agenda arguments. Why? If you don’t like the narrative, the pacing, action, script etc, that’s all fine, but why start with the social/political argument. And honestly the other side can be just as annoying for attacking someone for legitimate issues with a film. As long as you can truly articulate what you liked or didn’t like about the film, I think that’s fair game.

 

[subzro]

There’s nothing wrong with not liking a film/s. If you don’t like it, you don’t like it. Not all films are made for everyone as it’s all subjective. I know a lot of people who just plain refuse to watch any comic book based movie.

I honestly think Infinity War was the best thing since sliced bread kind of movie. But I know that’s only because I’m fully invested in the franchise.

But at the same time while I liked Captain Marvel, I probably enjoyed 10 other MCU films even more. And while I think Captain Marvel was better structured than Aquaman, I had more fun at the theatre watching the Aquaman movie (which I had quite a few nitpicks with).

My only issue with a certain segment of the audience is where their dislike of the film always starts and ends with the agenda arguments. Why? If you don’t like the narrative, the pacing, action, script etc, that’s all fine, but why start with the social/political argument. And honestly the other side can be just as annoying for attacking someone for legitimate issues with a film. As long as you can truly articulate what you liked or didn’t like about the film, I think that’s fair game.

 

[generalszabo]

There’s nothing wrong with not liking a film/s. If you don’t like it, you don’t like it. Not all films are made for everyone as it’s all subjective. I know a lot of people who just plain refuse to watch any comic book based movie.

I honestly think Infinity War was the best thing since sliced bread kind of movie. But I know that’s only because I’m fully invested in the franchise.

But at the same time while I liked Captain Marvel, I probably enjoyed 10 other MCU films even more. And while I think Captain Marvel was better structured than Aquaman, I had more fun at the theatre watching the Aquaman movie (which I had quite a few nitpicks with).

My only issue with a certain segment of the audience is where their dislike of the film always starts and ends with the agenda arguments. Why? If you don’t like the narrative, the pacing, action, script etc, that’s all fine, but why start with the social/political argument. And honestly the other side can be just as annoying for attacking someone for legitimate issues with a film. As long as you can truly articulate what you liked or didn’t like about the film, I think that’s fair game.

People can't help themselves by keeping politics out of it. But as you say, people can nit pick a film for any reason. A lot of people are very bitter about the world and do nothing but moan about it instead of doing anything about it, is a sad fact of life

 

[Malgus]

You're right. All of the MCU audience is clammoring for this film to be made. No doubt a huge blockbuster....View attachment 448442

MCU and Hollywood should do everything to piss your kind off. Society will only benefit from your kind being marginalized. We don't need your anger and hatred catered to. Boycott Hollywood, Nike, Facebook, Apple, Google and every mainstream company. Move on to fringe right wing hate groups for entertainment so we don't have to hear your kind complaining about things not being racist enough to satisfy you. Just boycott everything already.

 

[Malgus]

ScarJo and Tom Holland beg to differ!

She has the typical white girl butt. That outfit was just made with a unflattering butt shape.

 

[Malgus]

People like to draw conclusions but what they're saying is they want a Marvel movie to be made because of a unique vision while also a part of a larger universe. What we don't want is:

"Okay time for a new movie. Any ideas?"
"Well, we haven't done Asians yet."
"Okay pull up the most popular Asian character and let's fast track it."
"Shang-Chi it is then."

That is actually what's being done for thd most part but to cast white males in 99% of all movies so if they change to stop it being a white male only show then great. Now they need to do something about all of the Lilly white behind the scenes crew. I say a movie crew setting up where I work and the total whiteness of the crew was telling. I'd bet most of them got hired because they were white and related to someone in the industry. Probably got hired right out of highschool and never had to graduate anything.

 

[jedijim3002]

That is actually what's being done for thd most part but to cast white males in 99% of all movies so if they change to stop it being a white male only show then great. Now they need to do something about all of the Lilly white behind the scenes crew. I say a movie crew setting up where I work and the total whiteness of the crew was telling. I'd bet most of them got hired because they were white and related to someone in the industry. Probably got hired right out of highschool and never had to graduate anything.

You are hilariously predictable.


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[Sassafras]

That is actually what's being done for thd most part but to cast white males in 99% of all movies so if they change to stop it being a white male only show then great. Now they need to do something about all of the Lilly white behind the scenes crew. I say a movie crew setting up where I work and the total whiteness of the crew was telling. I'd bet most of them got hired because they were white and related to someone in the industry. Probably got hired right out of highschool and never had to graduate anything.

Maybe it was telling that folks on film crews ideally need to be d@mn good at what they do re the safety factor

https://nofilmschool.com/2014/03/film-set-crew-safety-slates-for-sarah-jones
https://www.raindance.org/5-worst-dangers-film-set/

etc.

Which doesn't depend on skin color. Dunno about college degrees and all but would think knowing the difference between blanks and real bullets would be useful - do they teach that in college? Setting charges, building sets, lighting, etc...

ANYWAY

But the last thing you said rings true the most. "As long as the films are done well." I don't think this one was done well and it gets a pass because of the whole female thing. Then you get Black Panther, which was good, being touted as Best Picture. On top of that, you've got this "family-friendly" vibe and they're starting to lay it on pretty thick. Fury's eye, Asgard's destruction. Even Thanos pulled his punches on his path to Vision in the most ridiculous ways. He literally covered Black Widow in dirt. 5 Infinity Stone + a Titan vs a human spy and he COVERS HER IN DIRT. He even left her mouth open so she could breath. Honestly wtf? He's willing to kill half the universe but not the people directly trying to stop him?

I don't know man. I don't think this is for me anymore

.
I don't give it a pass. IMO since CW seems like one more or less "fluffy" film after another. Even IW was crammed with jokes. Yeah, I know the MCU always had jokes. But IMO there was a core of serious-ness more or less, and I luved the MCU as IMO they had the right balance.

Now CM to me is just a weak effort, like mostly the directors were having fun and goofing off. (The only good part IMO is by contrast it feels like BW is being taken seriously). But mostly the MCU, to me, feels like the bean counters at Disney decided to go for the money to be had in films directed at the upcoming generation - easier to translate into multiple languages too. U don't have to get across concepts that may not translate well outside of a Western or even U.S. audience.

(Like I had to ask a Chinese friend about Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon 'coz I didn't GET it). Right after EG is Spiderman - more fun! Cool graphics and songs! Lots of toy licenses!

Which is fine except...not my thing. Not for making time to go to a theater, anyway. Me like:
https://www.reddit.com/r/marvelstudios/comments/b3t8lm/no_visual_effects_and_still_look_at_these_guys/


Just feels like Feige is all too happy to do space stuff 'coz it's cheaper than locations and stuntpeople (w. all those lilly-white uneducated film crews). So - if the MCU has shifted its target focus, it's like any other product. U just move on - or at least past EG I won't be charging out to a theater for an MCU movie.

 

[Saintv1]

The claim the recent movies are more fluffy is pretty spurious; Black Panther was probably the most thematically heavy MCU film to date.

I thought making Fury's eye a joke was pretty silly, but other than that, Captain Marvel was not significantly tonally different from the rest of the catalog, save outliers like Black Panther and the Captain America films, which are probably the most straight-faced films Marvel has done.

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[SilverStar17]

You are hilariously predictable.

Right?

It’s not too difficult to elicit an emotional response that brings out his tyrannical nature, intolerance and visceral hatred for anyone who disagrees with his myopic opinions.

How awful it must be to have your life be nothing but a roller coaster of negative emotions fraught with envy, anger, resentment and disappointment, and demanding control over others.