Gary Friedrich v. Marvel/Disney

[CollectorNC]

There is a difference between commissions and prints. A single original image is not illegal but once you produce multipule versions of that image you are breaking copyright law.

I guess everyone on here doing commissions should keep that in mind.

 

[CollectorNC]

I imagine you'd not aware of what music contracts looked like back in the day... or even today.
Do a net search on what Amercian Idol contestants have to sign in 2012. You'd think we were back in the stone age.

While it would be nice if the world gave everyone a "fair shake", it simply isn't realistic. In the end, Marvel could live without Ghost Rider, Gary can't. Those in Gary's position will never be in the driver's seat. Does anyone know who created Daffy Duck? Does anyone know how much money Mary Shelley's family gets in royalties for her Frankenstein creation? How much does Harrison Ford get for the use of his likeness on those endless Star Wars properties? Does anyone care that all those billions of dollars in gold coins found in that sunken ship actually belong to Peru and not Spain yet Spain is claiming it as their own? I can go on and on about the endless injustices ion the world and it'll always come down to the same thing.

Your examples are not exactly on point with a guy struggling to pay bills. The whole Hero Initiative was supposed to help artists and I hope it helps Friedrich. Marvel just compounded the situation when it insisted on a 17,000 penalty which makes no sense. It just shows them as the greedy bastards they are who really don't care about their employees or work for hire's, past or present. It's interesting to go to comic-con events and talk to Marvel artists about Marvel. A lot of long silence. Always get the impression Marvel lost its way after the 60's and when it dominated the market, it did so on the backs of its artists that they failed to take care of, thus the outrageous amount of former artists in poverty that caused the Hero Initiative to be thought up.

 

[mfoga]

Your examples are not exactly on point with a guy struggling to pay bills. The whole Hero Initiative was supposed to help artists and I hope it helps Friedrich. Marvel just compounded the situation when it insisted on a 17,000 penalty which makes no sense. It just shows them as the greedy bastards they are who really don't care about their employees or work for hire's, past or present. It's interesting to go to comic-con events and talk to Marvel artists about Marvel. A lot of long silence. Always get the impression Marvel lost its way after the 60's and when it dominated the market, it did so on the backs of its artists that they failed to take care of, thus the outrageous amount of former artists in poverty that caused the Hero Initiative to be thought up.

From my understanding of the $17000 it was his choice to pay that and not fight in court, an in doing so has shown he has some level of guilt or why not fight it. He was illegally selling merchandise , he got caught now he pays.

 

[CollectorNC]

From my understanding of the $17000 it was his choice to pay that and not fight in court, an in doing so has shown he has some level of guilt or why not fight it. He was illegally selling merchandise , he got caught now he pays.

If it's such a legal issue, I guess Marvel should take it up with hundreds of other current and former artists at conventions.

 

[risingstar]

Your examples are not exactly on point with a guy struggling to pay bills.

This isn't about a guy struggling to pay bills. It's about entitlement.

 

[Sweet Rabbit]

I'm kinda surprised the CBLDF hasn't stepped in yet

 

[CollectorNC]

This isn't about a guy struggling to pay bills. It's about entitlement.

It's about how Marvel got a bunch of artists to sign away their rights for a paycheck and false promises of future work.

 

[CollectorNC]

I'm kinda surprised the CBLDF hasn't stepped in yet

Probably waiting to see if Friedrich approaches them.

All I know is people can act like lawyers on here all day, but we all are guessing as to exactly the circumstances under which this all happened. Marvel is known to have strong armed more than a few young artists and people should ask themselves why so many artists left Marvel over the years, many quite publicly.

 

[mfoga]

If it's such a legal issue, I guess Marvel should take it up with hundreds of other current and former artists at conventions.

This guy is a writer , what kind of merch can you be selling and believe it was your creation. He was selling posters, T shirts, cards, all must have someone else's artwork. Seeing how he didn't even create the original images he would still is stealing someone elses original work. Who he should be most pissed at is the attorneys who didn't tell him well enough he is an idiot for tying this lawsuit.

I know I see artists selling sketch books , and original images, commissions but very few are selling mass produced prints and if they are they could have legal permission to do so. Some do and they are told not to, and I would bet if any of them are stupid to go after the license holder in court they will get hit too.


I know with other licenses there are artists who constantly break the rules and have yet to have legal action taken as its not worth it to the license holder as its a small fish in the grand sceme but is talked to all the time about what he is doing and gets better for a while then goes back to old habits.

 

[risingstar]

It's about how Marvel got a bunch of artists to sign away their rights for a paycheck and false promises of future work.

Those artists had options, like most of us do, to do something else with their lives if they weren't happy. We can't all love what we do.

As someone who worked in film and television for a number of years, believe me when I say it is filled with people who'll agree to almost anything not to have a 9 to 5 job. Again, it's a choice. These people have a pretty good idea as to what they're doing. While no one likes to see an old guy struggling to pay the bills, this should be a lesson to all of us that if you're going to swim with sharks, you better bring a few band-aids. Lastly, and perhaps most importantly, there has to be some accountability and responsibility for the choices we make in life. I ended up going back to graduate school because I pretty much learned in a hurry of the kind of life I would lead in film and TV. I said, no thanks. I wanted to feel much more secure as to where my next dollar was coming from. Gary probably should have considred the same thing.

 

[CollectorNC]

Interesting reads...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creator's_Bill_of_Rights

Also, Mike Ploog has probably sold enough sketches of Ghost Rider to warrant the same punishment. How can it be fair to penalize one and not the other?

 

[mfoga]

Probably waiting to see if Friedrich approaches them.

All I know is people can act like lawyers on here all day, but we all are guessing as to exactly the circumstances under which this all happened. Marvel is known to have strong armed more than a few young artists and people should ask themselves why so many artists left Marvel over the years, many quite publicly.

It's their sandbox, if you want to play you got to play by their rules. It sucks, but how many studio writers have this happen and people don't care, how many engineers design something and only get what the company wants to pay them, what makes these people so special?

 

[CollectorNC]

This guy is a writer , what kind of merch can you be selling and believe it was your creation. He was selling posters, T shirts, cards, all must have someone else's artwork. Seeing how he didn't even create the original images he would still is stealing someone elses original work. Who he should be most pissed at is the attorneys who didn't tell him well enough he is an idiot for tying this lawsuit.

I know I see artists selling sketch books , and original images, commissions but very few are selling mass produced prints and if they are they could have legal permission to do so. Some do and they are told not to, and I would bet if any of them are stupid to go after the license holder in court they will get hit too.


I know with other licenses there are artists who constantly break the rules and have yet to have legal action taken as its not worth it to the license holder as its a small fish in the grand sceme but is talked to all the time about what he is doing and gets better for a while then goes back to old habits.

He was selling his signature as creator of Ghost Rider. The stuff he was signing looked to me to be stuff he bought to have available to sign. Just like anyone would sell something on ebay. Also, most people had stuff to hand him to sign. But at the same con I got Tex to sketch a Ghost Rider and he currently works for Marvel, so maybe he has an agreement. Although Neal Adams was there too and he had a big falling out with Marvel.

 

[CollectorNC]

It's their sandbox, if you want to play you got to play by their rules. It sucks, but how many studio writers have this happen and people don't care, how many engineers design something and only get what the company wants to pay them, what makes these people so special?

I care when I hear about. I think if more of these stories came to light to the public, corporations would be forced to change their business practices.

 

[devilof76]

No individual has a choice as to whether to follow ANY law, whether it is based upon morality or not. Insofar as that is true, whether a law is based upon morality is irrelevant. I think that laws should be maintained to preserve the optimum quality of human life. Whether it is based upon morality or not is really of secondary importance.

Again, I have to ask you what you're talking about.

Cuz...

As far as this man's contract was concerned, if it amounted to him agreeing to it solely by signing his check, that was unfair. His contract should have been agreed upon in writing at the time he accepted his job. If so, then agreeing to the contract by signing his check would have been unnecessary, wouldn't it? Why would they even waste the money to print it on the check if he had already signed a contract when he first started working for them?

If it was so unfair, then he shouldn't have signed it. If he had a case for them manipulating him, then he should have made an issue of it at the time, before he agreed to what he didn't want to agree to. But...he agreed.

I think if more of these stories came to light to the public, corporations would be forced to change their business practices.

By what right do you use force to demand compliance with your moral convictions? Who made you and others who 'care' the overseers of ethical conduct? What makes you think that people who disagree with your moral point of view are not free to disagree?

All of these artists contracted freely. No one forced them, so they have no right to retaliate in kind. Force employed against this company would be a first strike, without provocation, and that is the action of a common thug. I don't give a damn how convinced you are that your morality is superior to theirs. A thug is a thug, and by definition, morally bankrupt.

 

[Blackthornone]

Again, I have to ask you what you're talking about.

Cuz...

You were saying that it was wrong to make laws based on morality, and I'm saying that the law is the law, and whether it is based on morality or not, it doesn't make any difference. You have to follow it whether you like it or not. A lot of laws are based on morality. What IS morality, really? It should be about whatever fosters the optimum quality of life for all, and NOT what enforces a relative higher quality of life just for a chosen few.

 

[devilof76]

1) I don't have to follow it whether I like to or not, and I can even overthrow the enforcers if I decide their law is detrimental to my life.

2) Morality is a code of values to guide human action.

3) Your last sentence is gibberish.

 

[Blackthornone]

1) I don't have to follow it whether I like to or not, and I can even overthrow the enforcers if I decide their law is detrimental to my life.

2) Morality is a code of values to guide human action.

3) Your last sentence is gibberish.

1. I suppose you have the right to go to prison just like everyone else.

2. To guide human action toward what end? True Morality isn't just about guiding human action just for the sake of telling people what to do to arbitrarily enforce their beliefs on them for no reason. It is about a code that fosters fairness and the greatest amount of fulfillment and freedom to the most people.

 

[devilof76]

1) Anyone with any respect for their own life is obligated to themselves to oppose law that threatens that life. Might does not make right. Obedience to bad law is complicity, whether I'm in jail or not.

2) Morality isn't a social convention; it is a personal need, without which people would die. With no basic framework of what values to pursue and why, people could not make the decisions necessary to live. This applies as much to a desert island as it does to a metropolis.

Good law makes it possible for people to take the actions they need to survive. It does not prescribe those actions. All that nonsense about fairness and greatest good of the greatest number is the cornerstone of every totalitarian ideology that's ever thrown a molotov cocktail and it has no place in a legal code that enshrines individual liberty.

 

[devilof76]

Look, there is no universal standard of fairness. People have different desires, values and goals. What is worth something to one is worth nothing to another. The individual and only the individual can decide what is good for their life, which is why they need to be free to decide which associations they should or should not become entangled in. It is no more the law's responsibility than it is the other contracting party's. The final authority in determining one's own self-interest is one's self. Defer to another in that regard and if you get cheated, you have no one to blame but yourself.