Gary Friedrich v. Marvel/Disney

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CollectorNC

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Anyone else read about this and have an opinion? As one that had the opportunity to meet him and get his autograph, he seemed to be a nice frail old guy. Very classy of a billion dollar corporation to take advantage of him when he was young AND now that he is old and poor.
 
Kinda ridiculous that these comic guys think they have some kind of ownership of their creations. When they make these comics for Marvel/DC they are signing everything they make for them away. I don't see how he ever believed he signed only partial rights of the character away.
 
As crappy as the situation seems and though it looks like the billion dollar company is taking advantage of the little guy, Shropt is on point. If you are an employee and create something while employed by company and on company time, unless you have the foresight to protect your intellectual property, it belongs to the company.

I'm sure we can all agree that the biggest "genius" move that George Lucas ever did was retain the rights to his creations.
 
Yeah but on its face, work-for-hire was a way for a corporation to take advantage of young artists and was done away with. If there was nothing wrong with it, why did Marvel stop doing it as it mentions in the article?

Also, say he did one job for them and ONLY after submitting his work and getting the check did he see the fine print on the back of the check...how the hell is that right?
 
What was he doing contracting if he didn't know the contract?

There's no such thing as an unfair hiring practice, short of slavery. It's the employee's responsibility to know the terms of their employment.
 
Yeah but on its face, work-for-hire was a way for a corporation to take advantage of young artists and was done away with. If there was nothing wrong with it, why did Marvel stop doing it as it mentions in the article?

Also, say he did one job for them and ONLY after submitting his work and getting the check did he see the fine print on the back of the check...how the hell is that right?

I agree with you. Firstly, Marvel probably stopped doing it because too many artists objected.
The man has to eat. If he gets a check, he needs to cash it so he can buy food and pay his lodging and other bills. Is he NOT going to cash it out of principle? He can't afford to do that and live. Cash the check or die, or find another job.

As far as I'm concerned, Marvel artists should be paid for drawing Marvel characters, because that is what they are there for. If they invent a new character, it wasn't a Marvel character before it was invented, and so it shouldn't be after the artist draws it. If he draws a new character on company time, to me, he isn't doing his job. He is doing a different job.

If Marvel wants to hire someone just to invent characters, that is different.

If an artist creates a character, it should be his. We are assuming it was on his coffee break or something. If Marvel says he used their resources to make it, he can pay them for the paper, pens, pencils, and whatever else he used. If he did it on Marvel's time, then he was simply goofing off, not doing his job, no different than someone drawing GI JOE when they should be doing their math assignment in math class. If Marvel wants to own a character created by one of their artists, they can make the artist an offer, and if the artist accepts, he will sell it to Marvel, or maybe license it to them.


We are talking about right and wrong here, and not just the law, because if the law isn't based upon fairness, then it is based upon might makes right, which is nothing more than people doing whatever they can get away with, moral ramifications be damned. In that case, if a law is enforced by the U.S. government, then the U.S. government is nothing better than being the people with the most guns. That's not justice, because it isn't right. I realize we have a legal system CALLED the Justice System, but that doesn't mean it is, and if it isn't, it is nothing more than might makes right, boiling down to anyone doing whatever they want just because they can.
 
Ouch, this definitely sucks for comic artists that worked under any large label. To be the creator of such an amazing character and to NOT be able to say you did at conventions pretty much crushes you as an artist I'm sure. Marvel is only doing it to crush all artists who would even THINK about going against them. I think any artist who continues to sell small drawings for fans will get away with it as long as they never decide to challenge the large corporations. I wonder why Gary decided to file a claim against Marvel in the first place?
 
This is a crappy situation all the way around. The Superman rights case opened the door to these all over the place with multiple artists/creators and partly because it was a shock that the big time company wasn't winning. When you got toe to toe with these big companies you know they are coming guns blazing and looking to make an example.

Right or wrong, the unfortunate fact is that you fight the fights you can win and I don't know reading through it that I would have attempted this.

I do hope that Marvel/Disney ends up dropping the things alltogether but from what I'm reading on multiple sites an example they are definitely looking to make here.
 
Law does not enforce right and wrong, nor should it.

Then it would be nothing more than a system of control by which the people in power control all the people without. I think most people obey the law based upon the notion that it upholds what is right. If most people believe that it does not, then that starts revolutions, like the execution of the Queen of France.
 
What was he doing contracting if he didn't know the contract?

There's no such thing as an unfair hiring practice, short of slavery. It's the employee's responsibility to know the terms of their employment.

I'm saying the contract was a back alley contract, if even that. Probably a verbal one initially...work-for-hire...the only fine print on the back of a check that was given AFTER work was completed. So before he actually had a contract, if I read it correctly, he basically was forced to sign away all rights if he wanted to cash his check which I guess meant to put some food on his family's table. Work-for-hire was an unscrupulous way of exploiting talent in the 60's and 70's and Marvel made a killing off of it.
 
Ouch, this definitely sucks for comic artists that worked under any large label. To be the creator of such an amazing character and to NOT be able to say you did at conventions pretty much crushes you as an artist I'm sure. Marvel is only doing it to crush all artists who would even THINK about going against them. I think any artist who continues to sell small drawings for fans will get away with it as long as they never decide to challenge the large corporations. I wonder why Gary decided to file a claim against Marvel in the first place?

Because it was all in his face with all the merchandise and movies. If it was the comic alone, I doubt he would have wasted his time. I guess the poor 20-30 something in the 70's should have had an attorney present. Employees are often taken advantage of and Marvel has a long history, hence the creation of Image comics and other indie comics when artists got fed up with the Marvel corporate machine.
 
I'm just the glad that the commission/OA side isn't being touched

But isn't it for Friedrich? I mean I know what Quesda said but the actual court docs read that he can't say he is Ghost Rider's creator, nor sale Marvel Ghost Rider merchandise. Last year at a comic-con, I got a huge blow up of Marvel Spotlight #5 signed by him and chatted with him for awhile. Neal Adams was there too drawing all kinds of Marvel characters and pocketing the money. I guess Marvel turns the other way if you don't sue them and I agree that suing them when you were likely one of 3 contributing creators of GR, is kinda dumb. He could have gone on doing the conventions flying under Marvel's radar. I just don't like the initial way Marvel built its bullpen on the back of writers and artists in such a manner, to basically force them to sign away their rights for a paycheck.
 
But isn't it for Friedrich? I mean I know what Quesda said but the actual court docs read that he can't say he is Ghost Rider's creator, nor sale Marvel Ghost Rider merchandise. Last year at a comic-con, I got a huge blow up of Marvel Spotlight #5 signed by him and chatted with him for awhile. Neal Adams was there too drawing all kinds of Marvel characters and pocketing the money. I guess Marvel turns the other way if you don't sue them and I agree that suing them when you were likely one of 3 contributing creators of GR, is kinda dumb. He could have gone on doing the conventions flying under Marvel's radar. I just don't like the initial way Marvel built its bullpen on the back of writers and artists in such a manner, to basically force them to sign away their rights for a paycheck.

nobody would've cared if he didn't try & sue. many artist sell those prints at cons and such
 
nobody would've cared if he didn't try & sue. many artist sell those prints at cons and such

Yeah, that seems to be the main issue: he sued. I remember when Kirby's family try to sue Marvel for all of the characters he co-created with Stan Lee.

Marvel just should have been above board back then and just hired folks as employees than going the cheap route and getting hired guns so they didn't have to pay insurance or anything else.

EDIT - Hope Marvel kept good books back then as I wonder how many artist they just paid under the table to avoid paying their part of SS.
 
Then it would be nothing more than a system of control by which the people in power control all the people without. I think most people obey the law based upon the notion that it upholds what is right. If most people believe that it does not, then that starts revolutions, like the execution of the Queen of France.

Fighting over the right to force obedience to a code values has to be the oldest cause of violence in human history. What kind of society do you think you'll end up with if the majority has the power to force obedience to their morality? No different than one ruled by a despot, except that you're now ruled by thousands, if not millions of them. It's no different from a primitive state where might makes right.

The only legitimate purpose of law is to protect the individual's right to think and act freely, to determine by their own conscience what is right and wrong, and to act accordingly, free from initiations of force by other individuals.

You live by your ethics, and I'll live by mine, thanks. If I disagree with you, I am free to not deal with you, just as these artists were free to not deal with Marvel. If the terms of the agreement were changed at the time of payment, then Marvel violated the contract, but if the artists accepted those terms after the fact, then they're out of luck (assuming this government still has any respect for the sanctity of contract---I won't hold my breath).
 
There's a lot more factors. It's not just black and white. But then again, this is how mega-corporations get big. On the backs of others.
 
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