Dune Part Two (October 20th, 2023)

[The Buffinator]

I finally saw this yesterday. I quite enjoyed it for the most part, but I agree that the finale seemed rather rushed and left me wanting more. I think a little less time spent on Irulan's journal entries and more spent on the final battle was warranted. Someone else mentioned that David Lynch's finale was more satisfying than this one and I've got to agree.

I also agree that this should have been R rated, or at the very least show some blood being spilled. The Fremen are fierce, lethal warriors and yet every kill seemed so....sanitary.

It's been ages since I read the books, but the other thing that felt off to me was the passage of time - or rather the lack of it. IIRC several years passed between Paul & Jessica's joining up with the Fremen and that final battle against the Harkonnen troops & the Emperor's Sardaukar. During that passage of time Paul & Chani had a kid and Paul's sister Alia was born (& rapidly matured). And Alia was the one who killed Baron H - assassinating him with a gom jabbar after letting herself get kidnapped.

 

[jye4ever]

Please don’t mention 84 in the same breath as this movie the shield armor from 84 made Duncan look like gumby lol

 

[Khev]

I finally saw this yesterday. I quite enjoyed it for the most part, but I agree that the finale seemed rather rushed and left me wanting more. I think a little less time spent on Irulan's journal entries and more spent on the final battle was warranted. Someone else mentioned that David Lynch's finale was more satisfying than this one and I've got to agree.

I also agree that this should have been R rated, or at the very least show some blood being spilled. The Fremen are fierce, lethal warriors and yet every kill seemed so....sanitary.

It's been ages since I read the books, but the other thing that felt off to me was the passage of time - or rather the lack of it. IIRC several years passed between Paul & Jessica's joining up with the Fremen and that final battle against the Harkonnen troops & the Emperor's Sardaukar. During that passage of time Paul & Chani had a kid and Paul's sister Alia was born (& rapidly matured). And Alia was the one who killed Baron H - assassinating him with a gom jabbar after letting herself get kidnapped.

Agreed on all counts. I was bummed that the film didn't show Alia being born and killing the Baron like she did in both the book and 1984 film.

But I'm seeing more and more that a third film is not only a given but being actively worked on as we speak so that might end up resolving my issues with how this one ended.

 

[Khev]

Please don’t mention 84 in the same breath as this movie the shield armor from 84 made Duncan look like gumby lol

The slow blade penetrates the shield, lol.

 

[Wor-Gar]

The slow blade penetrates the shield, lol.

That's what she said.

 

[Mandible]

Watched it again, I know what the problem with Chani is - she flip-flops too much.

She doesn't trust him, she does. She wants him, then she doesn't. She knows why he fears going to the South but then gets pissed off at him when he doesn't want to go. But then he goes and she gets pissed off with him, etc, etc, etc.

I'm not giving pinpoint examples, and they "kind of" talk their way around it, but it's really obvious the more times you watch it.

The other thing - if he can see the future perfectly after drinking the worm piss, why not tell Chani exactly what is going to go down to avoid springing stuff on her and getting her all riled up?

Here's something else for discussion (as someone who hasn't read the books). At the very beginning of the first film Chani is giving a VO about spice harvesting and says they do it at night to avoid the heat of the day. Yet in both movies they're primarily out there during the day. Did I miss something?

(Still very enjoyable, easily "consumed" movies, and would put them up there with LOTR, OT, and any of the greats, but I can't avoid the discrepancies on some things).

 

[Khev]

Yeah whatever decision anyone ever made = Chani mad, lol.

I also questioned how out of an entire planet of sand and spice that the Fremen had the wherewithal to know exactly where the harvesters would be dropped so that they could already be there hiding under the sand when they arrived.

 

[The Buffinator]

Here's something else for discussion (as someone who hasn't read the books). At the very beginning of the first film Chani is giving a VO about spice harvesting and says they do it at night to avoid the heat of the day. Yet in both movies they're primarily out there during the day. Did I miss something?

I recall her saying that as well. From a filmmaking standpoint I can understand wanting to stage those scenes in daylight but it would have been nice to have that inconsistency explained. Something simple like the Fremen disrupted spice production so much that Rabban decided to harvest in daylight as well in an attempt to make up for the shortfall. Done.

 

[Khev]

The Harkonnens were originally harvesting at night but Chani got mad so they switched to days.

 

[The Buffinator]

The Harkonnens were originally harvesting at night but Chani got mad so they switched to days.

The noise was keeping her up at night so she wrote a strongly worded letter to Rabban lol.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Watched it again, I know what the problem with Chani is - she flip-flops too much.

She doesn't trust him, she does. She wants him, then she doesn't. She knows why he fears going to the South but then gets pissed off at him when he doesn't want to go. But then he goes and she gets pissed off with him, etc, etc, etc.

Women...

Happy International Women's day!!!!

 

[Wor-Gar]

Chani mad...

 

[davejames]

Well I guess I must be a bad scifi fan, because two movies in and I'm still struggling to care about this world or its characters. I kept hearing that this second movie was going to make me a convert, but it basically felt like more of the same, albeit with an even more dickish lead character and a very forced love story. And the culture of the Fremen continues to not interest me in the slightest.

And yes I have no problem with slow, thoughtful scifi so don't try to throw that at me. And I'm all for visual tone poem movies, but there's only so many shots of sand dunes and giant bug-like spaceships I can take before I start to zone out.

 

[Mandible]

Well I guess I must be a bad scifi fan, because two movies in and I'm still struggling to care about this world or its characters. I kept hearing that this second movie was going to make me a convert, but it basically felt like more of the same, albeit with an even more dickish lead character and a very forced love story. And the culture of the Fremen continues to not interest me in the slightest.

And yes I have no problem with slow, thoughtful scifi so don't try to throw that at me. And I'm all for visual tone poem movies, but there's only so many shots of sand dunes and giant bug-like spaceships I can take before I start to zone out.

You're not alone (although maybe in a minority), but I have two friends that are Lynch fanatics that think these films are absolutely ass and the 84 version is some kind of awakening masterpiece?

They've both read the books, I haven't... that might be the answer?

 

[Mandible]

Chani sad?

 

[davejames]

You're not alone (although maybe in a minority), but I have two friends that are Lynch fanatics that think these films are absolutely ass and the 84 version is some kind of awakening masterpiece?

They've both read the books, I haven't... that might be the answer?

I haven't read the books and never been able to get through the Lynch movie. So perhaps this just isn't my kind of scifi.

I'm a massive fan of Denis's Arrival and BR2049 and love his visual style, but for some reason this one just isn't working as well for me.

 

[Khev]

They've both read the books, I haven't... that might be the answer?

I think that having read the book has definitely made it harder for me to appreciate these films. In the book Chani was very likable and one of my favorite characters.

I'm assuming that Denis changed her so that she could be constantly calling out the "white savior" trope which is only an issue because he decided to make all the Fremen black or brown in the first place (and also not from the book.)

 

[Mandible]

I haven't read the books and never been able to get through the Lynch movie. So perhaps this just isn't my kind of scifi.

I'm a massive fan of Denis's Arrival and BR2049 and love his visual style, but for some reason this one just isn't working as well for me.

Really? That's interesting that these don't land for you then.

Personally, Arrival is a once in a generation, film.

 

[Mandible]

I think that having read the book has definitely made it harder for me to appreciate these films. In the book Chani was very likable and one of my favorite characters.

I'm assuming that Denis changed her so that she could be constantly calling out the "white savior" trope which is only an issue because he decided to make all the Fremen black or brown in the first place (and also not from the book.)

Yeah, I'm surprised the SJW's aren't up in arms over these films - the white savior of the indigenous people.

Being "book ignorant" I didn't come to these with any other preconceived ideas or hopes other than being a fan of Denis's work and hoping like hell it was going to be like the 84 abomination.

But I don't give anyone a free pass if I don't like the material. The only thing I disliked in the first was the abrupt ending - at the time not knowing it was only half of the initial book. But I do have several nitpicks with part two. Not enough to take away the overall enjoyment, but quite a few scenes that feel odd, jarring, or unnecessary.

And I know poor old Zendaya has been copping it a bit, but I haven't had any issue with any of the actors - her performance is let down more by the scripting and direction.

 

[jye4ever]

Remember that the Baron was under extreme pressure to get spice production going 24/7 after lengthy interruptions.

Mandible

Denis likes visual story telling and the pregnancy belly bump was the visual cue for us to use as the calendar.

Books are obviously better vessels to show the passing of time but who is going to sit for a 6 hour straight movie in a theater from a 900 page book have you seen how long each Shogun episode is lol