Does Rogue One detract from A New Hope?

[Wor-Gar]

ANH has always been a bit of a jarring visual downgrade compared to ESB, ROTJ, and now RO. Such is the nature of it's comparatively limited budget and effects techniques that were still in their infancy. But that's unavoidable and ultimately a big part of it's enduring charm.

It's also the only Star Wars film protected by the Library of Congress.



This RO question is a bit like asking "does the PT detract from the OT.... or does the OT detract from the ST... or does the SE detract from the Originals... or does the Disney logo detract from the Fox logo?

 

[Khev]

Does ROTJ detract from AOTC? Discuss.

I kid because I do think the original question is valid especially since RO segues directly into SW. I see Prime Clone's question as basically "what's a stronger narrative; SW by itself or RO/SW?" I ask that question of every sequel/prequel when determining whether it makes my own personal canon.

 

[karamazov80]

It's also the only Star Wars film protected by the Library of Congress.



This RO question is a bit like asking "does the PT detract from the OT.... or does the OT detract from the ST... or does the SE detract from the Originals... or does the Disney logo detract from the Fox logo?

To me, it is the same thing. And I'm not saying that I think Rogue One is as bad as the prequels or special edition changes--I don't. But, for me, the originals are all that matter. The others are just movie studios and toy companies trying to capitalize on a great franchise for commercial gain. No different than attempts to turn old TV shows like Car 54, Where Are You or the Honeymooners into feature films in modern times.

Whether or not I like these things, they don't affect my understanding and appreciation of the originals. So no, it doesn't detract from my appreciation of the original films. If I was a guy who felt obligated to treat all supposed "canon" as related to the originals, though, I would have a much harder time. Particularly with the prequel trilogy, but also something like Rogue One or Force Awakens. Because then you do have to start rationalizing things like the duel, and that's not a road I would enjoy going down psychologically.

 

[Khev]

As an X-Men fan rationalizing continuity is not a road I enjoy going down psychologically.

 

[karamazov80]

That's the beauty of the X-Men films. There is no real, interconnected franchise to even start with! So, toss in a Logan here or Deadpool there, watch what you like, ignore what you don't, and it doesn't really matter. Star Wars is like that now, so power to them. It's very possible that they could one day create a spinoff stand-alone film that speaks to me like Rogue One does to you. I doubt it, but it's possible. I still won't consider it part of the same franchise as the original films, but something on the order of an "Elseworlds" or "What If?" story.

 

[RIDDICK]

. . .

"Rough One" is a bad film even by PT standards.
And outside of Tarkin's scenes it adds absolutely nothing to "Star Wars".

 

[Snake Plissken]

"Rough One" is a bad film even by PT standards.
And outside of Tarkin's scenes it adds absolutely nothing to "Star Wars".

Wow really? I've yet to watch it along with VII, and only watched the Vader and Tarkin scenes.

 

[Wor-Gar]

RO is just such a Riddick movie... I have no idea why he can't stand it. It has brutal killing, Vader chopping up rebels, cities destroyed violently, warm deserts to make him forget about his cold homeland, and aggressive, mean characters... and everyone DIES! In a Star Wars movie no less!!! He should be lovin' this. Makes no sense to me.

 

[Khev]

watch what you like, ignore what you don't, and it doesn't really matter. Star Wars is like that now

Personally I think that Star Wars has *always* been like that even among OT films. There have even been a great many times I've flip flopped on whether I even count ROTJ as canon, lol. So I don't see the OT as this holy and cohesive thing by any means, far from it in fact. So yeah, take what you like, ignore what you don't just like with X-Men movies, Terminator, ALIEN, Batman, and all the other franchises.

I would agree that SW and ESB at the minimum are the Saga's anchors and I measure all sequels and prequels by how well they connect to those and whether or not they enhance or detract from them. ROTJ definitely detracted from Han, Vader, and Fett's characters as they were presented in SW/ESB but eh, at this point I don't really care and give ROTJ a straight pass.

I'm not cynical about further sequels and prequels because the OT always implied that such films were coming, as far back as 1981 when "Episode IV: A New Hope" was added to SW's opening crawl. And then you had Carrie Fisher on Letterman in 1983 saying do you guys really want to see further adventures of me and Han where we have some crazy kid with wild hair? Or Mark Hamill on the Today Show saying that George wants him to come back "around 2011" to hand his lightsaber down to the next generation like King Arthur passing Excalibur. Fast forward to 2015 and we actually have a new SW movie with Adam Driver basically playing that crazy wild haired kid that Carrie mentioned oh so long ago and Luke's sword going to the younger hero. Pretty cool to see that actually play out.

Then RO finally delivered on the promise failed by the PT by giving us pre-ANH action and Vader kicking ass like never before. Two huge elements I was looking forward to in the PT that never actually panned out. Does RO take place decades earlier at the height of the Republic? No but I'll still take it as a "proper" prequel. The jury's out on everything going forward but like you said it's all case by case take what you like and discard the rest.

If LFL really does continue with the "SW movie every year" plan then there's bound to be some Elseworlds story that you fall in love with sooner or later especially if they finally start branching way out from the characters and events of the OT.

 

[karamazov80]

RO is just such a Riddick movie... I have no idea why he can't stand it. It has brutal killing, Vader chopping up rebels, cities destroyed violently, warm deserts to make him forget about his cold homeland, and aggressive, mean characters... and everyone DIES! In a Star Wars movie no less!!! He should be lovin' this. Makes no sense to me.

It's weird. On its surface, with the things you discuss, it does sound like a pretty unblinking, bad-ass Star Wars influenced romp. But in the execution it didn't feel that way to me at all. The tone feels superficial, and the characters didn't connect at all. Stupid stuff like the blind guy beating up armored Storm Troopers with a bo staff. That's straight out of an '80s Saturday morning cartoon. Protagonist wasn't very likable. None of the characters were very fleshed out, though Mads skirts by on his acting skills alone.

Don't get me wrong, it was a fun movie. But empty calories. Just something to turn your brain off and enjoy like a JCVD movie.

 

[Wor-Gar]

surface, with the things you discuss, it does sound like a pretty unblinking, bad-ass Star Wars influenced romp. But in the execution it didn't feel that way to me at all. The tone feels superficial, and the characters didn't connect at all. Stupid stuff like the blind guy beating up armored Storm Troopers with a bo staff. That's straight out of an '80s Saturday morning cartoon. Protagonist wasn't very likable. None of the characters were very fleshed out, though Mads skirts by on his acting skills alone.

Don't get me wrong, it was a fun movie. But empty calories. Just something to turn your brain off and enjoy like a JCVD movie.

I can't argue with that. It's true. All of it.

 

[karamazov80]

By the way, I'm honestly not trying to egg Khev on with that post above In fact, I had largely left Rogue One alone, but saw the new thread and felt I should post, since this really is a big underlying debate.

Personally I think that Star Wars has *always* been like that even among OT films. There have even been a great many times I've flip flopped on whether I even count ROTJ as canon, lol. So I don't see the OT as this holy and cohesive thing by any means, far from it in fact.

That's a fair point. Particularly when you think of the change in director to Empire, and major shift in tone by the time Jedi came along, and it was pretty clear that the marketing team was an important creatively as Lucas was.

Yet, the intention, at least after the success of the first film, was to develop a trilogy that hung together. And that was supposed to be it, beyond wacky TV spinoffs, comics, and cartoons. With the X-Men, that never really happened. From the first to second movie, and that was pretty much it. So, I don't hold it in the same regard. Plus, I wasn't a kid when X-Men came out, so of course there is a difference to me!

 

[a-dev]

RO is just such a Riddick movie... I have no idea why he can't stand it. It has brutal killing, Vader chopping up rebels, cities destroyed violently, warm deserts to make him forget about his cold homeland, and aggressive, mean characters... and everyone DIES! In a Star Wars movie no less!!! He should be lovin' this. Makes no sense to me.

I would apply this moreso to SNIKT than RIDDICK.

 

[karamazov80]

I would apply this moreso to SNIKT than RIDDICK.

Yes. If it is violent and has cuss words, then it must be good.

If it doesn't, then it's a sell out, and it's garbage.

 

[Khev]

By the way, I'm honestly not trying to egg Khev on with that post above

I get that some people found Felicity's dreary Jyn Erso off putting and that they wished there was more character development but what can you do.

It's weird. On its surface, with the things you discuss, it does sound like a pretty unblinking, bad-ass Star Wars influenced romp. But in the execution it didn't feel that way to me at all. The tone feels superficial, and the characters didn't connect at all. Stupid stuff like the blind guy beating up armored Storm Troopers with a bo staff. That's straight out of an '80s Saturday morning cartoon. Protagonist wasn't very likable. None of the characters were very fleshed out, though Mads skirts by on his acting skills alone.

Don't get me wrong, it was a fun movie. But empty calories. Just something to turn your brain off and enjoy like a JCVD movie.

Not *quite* as good as the best JCVD films I mean it's not like RO had Wilford Brimley doing THIS:

Yes. If it is violent and has cuss words, then it must be good.

Unless there was a previous cut that had even *more* violence and cuss words, then even the violent theatrical release is a sellout.

 

[karamazov80]

John Woo, Wilford Brimley, and JCVD pretending to be a Cajun martial artist? You have to say this--movie companies were willing to do some strange things back in the early '90s.

 

[Sweet Rabbit]

Doesn't

 

[noisetrigger]

To me RO actually enhances ANH. Goes to shows that behind every victory there is a lot of sacrifice and the Rebel victory over the Death Star is not some lucky break but a tactical risk that the Rebel took and that the hands of fate has been set in motion long ago before the movie even started.

 

[Darth Snoopy]

There are a few rationalizations for the slow-paced duel: Vader was toying with Obi-Wan, Obi-Wan was trying to draw it out so everyone could escape, maybe there was a force battle between the two we couldn't see happening that limited their physical confrontation, etc. When I saw it as a kid, I didn't care because it was just awesome to see Darth Vader fighting with a light saber. Now, technology allows filmmakers to portray the Jedi/Sith using their powers like crazy--which is awesome. However, knowing this doesn't make it any less jarring to see Vader tearing through people in RO while using the Force like a mother ****er then just stand around swinging his light saber with less energy than I did as a kid when I used a cardboard wrapping paper tube.

This entire post.

It's also a duel. Duels gots rules!

The Sith make their own rules up!

 

[Prime Clone]

As Qui-Gon said, "Your focus determines your reality."

RO doesn't detract from ANH for me because I go into it knowing it's "only" an anthology film, not a major episode.

It might be different if I didn't think that way or was only a casual viewer.