Does Rogue One detract from A New Hope?

[DarkChocobi]

That's why I think people, myself included, should probably cut the Jake Lloyd/Hayden Christensen/Sebastian Shaw portrayal of Vader outside the suit some slack.

You had a well meaning, smart kid that genuinely liked to help people, taken from his mom at a young age by the Jedi. He was sad about it, like any normal child (or human really) would. Instead of being comforted by the evil Jedi, he's constantly chastised for missing his mom and friends. The Jedi tell him it isn't natural to fear losing his loved ones. They tell him it's wrong to love. Obi-Wan hates him as soon as he's introduced to him ("Why do I sense that we've picked up another pathetic life form?" = equating this poor kid that just helped win them a new generator to continue their mission to Jar Jar ****ing Binks), Mace Windu and Yoda chide him from the very beginning.

Then the only Jedi that believes in him as well as his potential to do good, dies. He's then stuck with this weird cult of robed space weirdos who don't believe in him at all. Then on the crux of adulthood, all the poor guy wanted to do is bone his nabooian childhood crush like any normal hormonal teenager, but you got Obi-Wan, Yoda, Windu and the other Jedi bitching him out 24/7.

People call Christensen's performance wooden, but think about it, this is a man who was born into slavery, separated from his mother at 9 years old, had to hide his emotions, marry in secret and essentially shamed himself for having kids with his wife. His outbursts are those of frustration. Every rant against Obi-Wan, the sand people, and the Jedi are justified ones.

He wasn't just killing younglings in that scene, he was killing a part of himself. The child that couldn't save his mother or friends anymore. The child born into a life of pain and suffering.

It is very rare to see such emotional statement about Anakin among constantly bashing and hateful comments from other members in this forum. I truly love and agree with everything you said, as well as your deeply understand how this character was portrayed by Mr. Lucas for the PT (and Hayden performed wonderful as Anakin btw).

That scene in the movie when Anakin/Vader confronted Obi Wan on Mustafar and said "From my point of view the Jedis are evil".. well that was a very very powerful line, which expressed his anger, frustrated and disapointments toward years of enduring Jedi Council. Especially after finish watching Clone Wars, I could say Jedi Council are bunch of hypocrites, their stupid code which restrict them to form attachments with other or prevent them from performing certain actions due to their "morality".. which eventually led to their downfall later.

In Ep3 -ROTS, Anakin was at the "breaking point", that was Mr. Lucas intention to show us the psychology side of him, the stressful Jedi who has gotten sick of his superiors for years (his padawan - Ahsoka was plead guilty by the Council for the conspiracy to attack Jedi Temple not long before). Yet people just judge and spit on this character without any proper clues.

Clone Wars enhance both Ep2 +Ep3. People's minds are clouded by their hate for the PT, and their ego refuse to watch "cartoon show for kids". If they just could strip away all of those bullshjt and seriously pay attention, they will start to appreciate Mr. Lucas's creation rather than the Force Abomination that Kathleen Kennedy and her Disney crews throwing at us currently.

Im sorry to drag this in RO topic...absolutely love the film and Gareth Edwards works!

 

[Skywalker(OG)Kush]

I never understood the attachments thing, Jedi seemed pretty attached to each other, especially the Padawan-knight relationship. Hell yoda nearly fainted when he felt his buddies being slaughtered and let's not forget obi wan crying and yelling "I loved you Anakin" at the end of rots as he let him burn. Jedi just didn't want other Jedi cheating on them, but they were most definitely attached to each other. Obi wan was also pretty upset when maul put a saber through QGJ, much like Luke was when Vader killed ben

 

[Khev]

Yep Ben should have been all "I feel like something awesome has happened, like millions of voices suddenly crying out in terror and then becoming one with the Force. Yay!"

 

[DiFabio]

Also true but the problem is...for me at least...that it's too hard to believe that this is the first time this would have happened (Anakin going dark) - really there should be a continuity of jedi kids going bad given what the jedi order does to them, the lives it forces them into.

Anakin was the only Jedi that wasn't taken from his parents at birth though. He got to be a kid for 10 years. All the others, like those goofy younglings he kills were brainwashed since birth.

 

[crows]

Anakin was the only Jedi that wasn't taken from his parents at birth though. He got to be a kid for 10 years. All the others, like those goofy younglings he kills were brainwashed since birth.

indoctrination from young age... it always works

 

[rushmore223]

Despite your examination of the Prequels, and mentioning some valid points in their defense, the movies are still awful. AOTC especially, is awfully awful.

HC's acting was terrible, the dialogue was terrible, the story needed much more fleshing out and refining.

I just felt like this needed to be mentioned again.

 

[punisher1974]

Too much digital filler and not enough character development overall. Mace really pushed Anakin over by not believing him

 

[DiFabio]

Despite your examination of the Prequels, and mentioning some valid points in their defense, the movies are still awful. AOTC especially, is awfully awful.

HC's acting was terrible, the dialogue was terrible, the story needed much more fleshing out and refining.

I just felt like this needed to be mentioned again.

I agree, there are only two great Star Wars movies. The rest range from awful to MEDICORE, with AOTC being the worst.

 

[rushmore223]

I agree, there are only two great Star Wars movies. The rest range from awful to MEDICORE, with AOTC being the worst.

Ahhhhh... DiFabio.

At least we agree on the OT and the Prequels. Doubt any Star Wars movie will ever be as good as SW and ESB, hell, it's a tall order for any movie.

 

[Khev]

Doubt any Star Wars movie will ever be as good as SW and ESB

"I'll take that bet."

 

[rushmore223]

"I'll take that bet."

I hope you win.

 

[Khev]

I hope you win.

I did last December.

 

[rushmore223]

I did last December.

Rogue One is GREAT, but it's not quite at the level with SW and ESB, at least in my eyes.

It's a great lead-in to SW, really, really like the movie, but falls a little shy of the mark. The fact that it's as good as it is, is amazing.

That being said, it's star wars through and through, but SW and ESB are just so mind blowingly good, it's so hard for anything, in my eyes, to equal it.

Rogue One is still the 3rd best Star Wars film, though.


LOTR does the best at meeting the quality and impact of the first 2 SW's than any other movie series in my memory.

 

[Khev]

Rogue One is GREAT, but it's not quite at the level with SW and ESB, at least in my eyes.

It's a great lead-in to SW, really, really like the movie, but falls a little shy of the mark. The fact that it's as good as it is, is amazing.

That being said, it's star wars through and through, but SW and ESB are just so mind blowingly good, it's so hard for nything, in my eyes, to equal it.

Okay technically I agree with you on all points, including SW and ESB being untouchable. But with that said...

SW, ESB, and RO are all straight 10's, 10's!

Yes RO is third but only because the rankings go like this:

1. ESB - 10+++
2. SW - 10++
3. RO - 10+

 

[rushmore223]

Okay technically I agree with you on all points, including SW and ESB being untouchable. But with that said...

SW, ESB, and RO are all straight 10's, 10's!

Yes RO is third but only because the rankings go like this:

1. ESB - 10+++
2. SW - 10++
3. RO - 10+

I can agree with that.

 

[Khev]

 

[rushmore223]

Nice!


If it weren't for BVS, I think we might agree on everything, at least as far as movies go.

 

[Khev]

Hmm where do you stand on BvS now? I would say now that it's a bit of a mess (okay kind of a big mess) but it has just enough scenes that I think are so cool or well done like the Knightmare sequence, Batman warehouse fight, WW entrance, pee jar, etc., that I still can't forsake it, lol.

 

[rushmore223]

Hmm where do you stand on BvS now? I would say that it's a bit of a mess (okay kind of a big mess) but it has just enough scenes that I think are so cool or well done like the Knightmare sequence, Batman warehouse fight, WW entrance, pee jar, etc., that I can't forsake it, lol.

You really want me to flog that dead horse.



Though, I did actually like the Knightmare Sequence, and I guess the Warehouse fight was not too bad. WW is fine.

The rest, should be thrown in a trashcan and set on fire.

 

[Khev]

Oh yes flog away. When you're done maybe karamazov could weigh in on Man of Steel, jye4ever on Fury Road and Wor-Gar on Spider-Man 2.

As for BvS, eh, it definitely isn't a film I'd go out of my way to defend nor would I give an unqualified recommendation to anyone who still hadn't seen it. But for whatever reason I still find the good to outweigh the bad, even if some parts are seriously off the mark and/or downright silly.