sscalltheway
Super Freak
Guys don't get mad at me, i started this thread a while back.
Difference Between Terminators
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whew, i'm staying out of most of this.
i THINK, repeat THINK, that cameron was a first gen independent terminator. it seemed like in the flashback episode where they introduce allison, that there was a faction of terminators that became fully sentient that broke from skynet. basically i took it as a rip from BSG cylon evolution.
ok....here i go....
t1 seen in t-3 and upgraded, jury rigged in ts
t-600's from reese's account.....man sized, mannequin skin like in tscc
t-600's from ts, timeline plays out differently with destruction of cyberdyne, robotics develop differently, bigger uglier design for close range ground combat. rubber skin allows them to get closer than unskinned (kinda like sf units growing beards and wearing shemaghs, they don't exactly look indigenous but from a distance it's tough to tell)
t-700 the debate rages, i think it was conceptually abandoned during production and recycled into the ts factory 800
t-800 everybody's favorite! the 101 means arnie skin, 102 is another, and so on
t-850 a smarter t-800 model numbers still apply.
t-1000 nuff said
i'm not going to count the tscc stuff....
i THINK, repeat THINK, that cameron was a first gen independent terminator. it seemed like in the flashback episode where they introduce allison, that there was a faction of terminators that became fully sentient that broke from skynet. basically i took it as a rip from BSG cylon evolution.
ok....here i go....
t1 seen in t-3 and upgraded, jury rigged in ts
t-600's from reese's account.....man sized, mannequin skin like in tscc
t-600's from ts, timeline plays out differently with destruction of cyberdyne, robotics develop differently, bigger uglier design for close range ground combat. rubber skin allows them to get closer than unskinned (kinda like sf units growing beards and wearing shemaghs, they don't exactly look indigenous but from a distance it's tough to tell)
t-700 the debate rages, i think it was conceptually abandoned during production and recycled into the ts factory 800
t-800 everybody's favorite! the 101 means arnie skin, 102 is another, and so on
t-850 a smarter t-800 model numbers still apply.
t-1000 nuff said
i'm not going to count the tscc stuff....
D'oh!
Super Freak
I was looking forward to seeing the crappy T-600s in the new movie... but where were they? Or did McG simply ignore that part of the story?
i don't follow?
EVILFACE
Super Freak
Sounds like you ignored part of the movie.
Sorry I didn't notice this thread was started pre-McG. I didn't mean to step on any particular toes.
I was sitting and thinking the last night about what the original timeline might have been like based solely on the info provided by Kyle Reese in the first Terminator. I have embellished it a bit to provide plausible answers to fill in gaps, but I have not contradicted anything he described about the future he knew which is clearly different from what the current franchise is depicting. Sorry it's so long. I did try to keep it as breif as possible, but there's a lot to explain. Here's my take on the original timeline:
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It makes the most sense to me that what we know as the T-800 Endoskeleton is actually a Model 101 Endoskeleton. 800 refers not to the endo design, but to the development stage of the camouflage and function of the Terminator. There should be several different models of 800s with varying stature so that people don’t learn to spot a certain face or look. Model 101 is just the largest and toughest, and the first based on the remains from '84.
Additionally, all Terminators are HKs. They are just the humanoid HK designs. The larger, vehicle-esque HKs had driven humans into hiding. People learned to stay down until the coast was clear. Skynet had to figure out a way into their hiding places.
The 600 series is the first HK to be humanoid enough to pass itself off as human by using rubber skin to camouflage itself. 600s would be dropped off near where there were signs of life and wonder around until they encountered people. A 600's objective was to get as close as possible to people before being made as a machine, and then it would simply do as much damage as possible until its mission was a success or it was stopped. Successful 600s would then return to Skynet for new rubber skin and start over.
The resistance quickly learned to be more cautious around strangers and to spot them from a safe distance. Fewer and fewer 600s would return successfully, so Skynet had to improve the camouflage and give the endos the capacity for basic verbal communication in order to get them closer. Skynet stripped the flesh off of the bodies of the dead and used it to cover its endos and programmed them with conversational subroutines. The 700 series was born, but it didn’t work very well because the dead flesh rotted quickly, especially in hot weather. The 700 series didn’t last long.
Skynet was forced to develope artificial skin that it could grow for its endos, and the 800 series cyborgs were created. These could pass for human at very close range, and could even accompany people back to their hideouts without question. It was such a well disguised series that only dogs could tell they weren’t human.
There are still several models of 800 with varying stature, but they are all 800s (cyborgs). The reason Skynet chose the 101 to go back to 1984 is because it was the largest, toughest of the endo designs, it had the highest probability for success, and a bodybuilder physique was not out of place in that time. It had nothing to do with it being the only model Skynet had. Killing Sarah was not the first chance Skynet had to destroy its prime target, but the last chance. Of course it would send its best hope for success.
The T-1000 was too fantastic to be part of believable reality. According to Kyle, the newest and worst Terminators were the 800s, so that’s where the original timeline ends as far as I’m concerned. But if it did progress, I think it would have progressed into T-X Terminators first. Still has an endo, and still is somewhat believable.
Where the Terminator franchise went most wrong was in making the franchise about Arnold instead of the Terminators. T2 was a great action movie, but now general consensus is that the 800 is always the Arnold model even though there was another one in T1. The movie was called Terminator. The franchise is called Terminator. But even Cameron f'ed it up by making it about Sarah, John, and Arnold instead of Skynet, the Terminator of mankind. Not all Predator movies are great, but at least they made it about the Predators instead of recurring characters like Arnold or Ripley (Aliens franchise).
I was sitting and thinking the last night about what the original timeline might have been like based solely on the info provided by Kyle Reese in the first Terminator. I have embellished it a bit to provide plausible answers to fill in gaps, but I have not contradicted anything he described about the future he knew which is clearly different from what the current franchise is depicting. Sorry it's so long. I did try to keep it as breif as possible, but there's a lot to explain. Here's my take on the original timeline:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
It makes the most sense to me that what we know as the T-800 Endoskeleton is actually a Model 101 Endoskeleton. 800 refers not to the endo design, but to the development stage of the camouflage and function of the Terminator. There should be several different models of 800s with varying stature so that people don’t learn to spot a certain face or look. Model 101 is just the largest and toughest, and the first based on the remains from '84.
Additionally, all Terminators are HKs. They are just the humanoid HK designs. The larger, vehicle-esque HKs had driven humans into hiding. People learned to stay down until the coast was clear. Skynet had to figure out a way into their hiding places.
The 600 series is the first HK to be humanoid enough to pass itself off as human by using rubber skin to camouflage itself. 600s would be dropped off near where there were signs of life and wonder around until they encountered people. A 600's objective was to get as close as possible to people before being made as a machine, and then it would simply do as much damage as possible until its mission was a success or it was stopped. Successful 600s would then return to Skynet for new rubber skin and start over.
The resistance quickly learned to be more cautious around strangers and to spot them from a safe distance. Fewer and fewer 600s would return successfully, so Skynet had to improve the camouflage and give the endos the capacity for basic verbal communication in order to get them closer. Skynet stripped the flesh off of the bodies of the dead and used it to cover its endos and programmed them with conversational subroutines. The 700 series was born, but it didn’t work very well because the dead flesh rotted quickly, especially in hot weather. The 700 series didn’t last long.
Skynet was forced to develope artificial skin that it could grow for its endos, and the 800 series cyborgs were created. These could pass for human at very close range, and could even accompany people back to their hideouts without question. It was such a well disguised series that only dogs could tell they weren’t human.
There are still several models of 800 with varying stature, but they are all 800s (cyborgs). The reason Skynet chose the 101 to go back to 1984 is because it was the largest, toughest of the endo designs, it had the highest probability for success, and a bodybuilder physique was not out of place in that time. It had nothing to do with it being the only model Skynet had. Killing Sarah was not the first chance Skynet had to destroy its prime target, but the last chance. Of course it would send its best hope for success.
The T-1000 was too fantastic to be part of believable reality. According to Kyle, the newest and worst Terminators were the 800s, so that’s where the original timeline ends as far as I’m concerned. But if it did progress, I think it would have progressed into T-X Terminators first. Still has an endo, and still is somewhat believable.
Where the Terminator franchise went most wrong was in making the franchise about Arnold instead of the Terminators. T2 was a great action movie, but now general consensus is that the 800 is always the Arnold model even though there was another one in T1. The movie was called Terminator. The franchise is called Terminator. But even Cameron f'ed it up by making it about Sarah, John, and Arnold instead of Skynet, the Terminator of mankind. Not all Predator movies are great, but at least they made it about the Predators instead of recurring characters like Arnold or Ripley (Aliens franchise).
I like your thinking! It is very similar to my logic. I can responded, in my mind, to the T-600's 7ft size due to events at the end of T2. Skynet had nothing to base the T-600's on anymore. So that me saving McG's bacon! Again!
I liked the T-1000, it was believable as it was a prototype. Kyle being a foot soldier wouldn't have seen it most likely. IMO, the T-1000 is more advanced than the TX as a infiltrator. What could kill you more effectively? Something that can just shape shift? Or something that can become your crapper or the floor in your kitchen and kill you from below? IMO of course the TX sucked!
sscalltheway
Super Freak
It seems like everyone loved the design of the T-X but I personally hated it. To me each Terminator movie seemed like the new bad Terminator should have been badder (as in more destructive, deadly etc.) than the last one from the previous Terminator movie. Like they go from the T-800 to the T-1000, then go to the T-X. Like someone said previously, i think the T-1000 was a better infiltrator than the T-X since the T-1000 can go into floors and stuff.
D'oh!
Super Freak
What I meant was (and as discussed above) I didn't see any rubber-skinned 600s -- were there any? Endoskeletons, sure, but were there any humanoids visible? Overall, I found the movie pretty forgettable so it's quite possible I missed any.
There were a few! But all were at memorable parts of the film IMO. Like when Marcus calls out to one, The one outside the skin farm that shots the man climbing out. And I think there was one inside the skin farm. NOT A 100% on that! Watching it again today so will let you know!
D'oh!
Super Freak
Thanks, Chief! If there's a still frame available, I'd love to see one.
Lord Aykroyd
Super Freak
Dont forget:
The T-70s, designed as mechanical soldiers, with large miniguns on their arms. They are the earliest terminator models shown to have a humanoid form with arms and legs. From T2 3-D: Battle Across Time (which was written by Cameron and 'should be' considered cannon).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T2_3-D
In an interview for Starlog Magazine, one of the ride's producers stated that originally, the T-800 endoskeletons from the Terminator films were going to be the machines being demonstrated. However, James Cameron pointed out to them that it was chronologically impossible for the T-800 Terminators to be present in a modern day because the T-800s were made by Skynet during the future war. As a result, the producers of the attraction agreed with Cameron and allowed him to design an early model Terminator for the attraction.
The T-70s, designed as mechanical soldiers, with large miniguns on their arms. They are the earliest terminator models shown to have a humanoid form with arms and legs. From T2 3-D: Battle Across Time (which was written by Cameron and 'should be' considered cannon).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T2_3-D
In an interview for Starlog Magazine, one of the ride's producers stated that originally, the T-800 endoskeletons from the Terminator films were going to be the machines being demonstrated. However, James Cameron pointed out to them that it was chronologically impossible for the T-800 Terminators to be present in a modern day because the T-800s were made by Skynet during the future war. As a result, the producers of the attraction agreed with Cameron and allowed him to design an early model Terminator for the attraction.
Here you go, it's from the Marcus scene "First Encounter". I named it obviously, kinda sad.....
However, James Cameron pointed out to them that it was chronologically impossible for the T-800 Terminators to be present in a modern day because the T-800s were made by Skynet during the future war. As a result, the producers of the attraction agreed with Cameron and allowed him to design an early model Terminator for the attraction.
So even Cameron f'ed up his own idea. Did he forget that Cyberdyne had the endo arm, legs, and whatever else was left in their factory? They could have easily made a prototype out of that which looked exactly like the T-800 we know (which of course would have been perfect, fated, coincidence). It's Cyberdyne Systems Model 101, not Skynet Systems Model. That suggests that it already had form before Skynet gave it the AI to work, and deployed it not as a foot soldier, but with real skin (an advnacement Cyberdyne did not achieve) as an infiltrator, a Terminator.
Kyle-"The Terminator is an infiltration unit."
Not a giant humanoid soldier, not infantry, not a ^^^^ing tank. Terminator = Infiltrator. Everything else should be some form of HK, even the T-70 if you include it in the T universe.
The whole concept that we all grew to know and love in the first movie was that the Terminator was not a war machine, but that it was the perfect assassin. "You (Sarah) have been targeted for termination." That's where the name Terminator comes from. I hate that 'Terminator' is now slapped onto every machine that exists. The Terminator was originally depicted as a very specific machine.
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And if you ask me, and you don't have to because I'm going to tell you, why are there Terminator Endos in the field during the opening of T2, I figure that was depicting the very end of the war. Humans had already learned all the infiltration tricks and they were also very close to taking out Skynet. Skynet was now throwing everything it had at them right there in its own front yard. The Endos were only then used as soldiers because the infiltration thing was not working anymore.
If Skynet had humanoid Endos in the field all the time, the infiltration tactic would never have worked so well.
If Skynet had humanoid Endos in the field all the time, the infiltration tactic would never have worked so well.
D'oh!
Super Freak
Now I remember this guy -- thanks for the photo!
uscmbuzz
Super Freak
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Well the terminator is only an infiltration unit if it has a flesh disquise it is wearing.. otherwise if its not wearing flesh its a foot soldier like in T2 ,T3 and TS... yea almost all of the movies had futurewar scenes with endos without skin fighting in the field..
I dont remember if t-1 did or not.. I remember a wounded terminator and a resistance fighter running up and then shooting it.. but I dont remember which movie that is from?..
I dont remember if t-1 did or not.. I remember a wounded terminator and a resistance fighter running up and then shooting it.. but I dont remember which movie that is from?..
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The only reason T-800's were fighting in T-2 and T-3 future war was because Skynets "Defence Grid" was smashed. Skynet was throwing everything it had in the cupboard under the stairs at the resistance! T-800's had no reason to have skin put over them. Neat Fact: T-800 skin takes 40 days to grow over a endo!. they just gave them rifles to use.
It was T-2 that your thinking of with the wounded endo
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