conan quits

[barbelith]

And the rest of the network afiliates around the country...

Your argument only works if ratings hold from 10pm to 12:35pm. But they don't. Viewers may stay for local news, but they don't stay mindlessly from the preceding program to the late night talk show. Viewers have a preference for hosts. People who watch Letterman watch Letterman. They don't watch Conan if they happen to be on a different channel.

And anyone working here in LA knows the affiliates are all crazy.

 

[LChinoz]

Conan's address to his staff and his fans was one of the most heartfelt things said on TV in years.. Truly a class act. It was nice to see him go out with such rock luminaries as Billy Gibbons of ZZ Top, Beck, and Ben Harper.

I wonder if Jay remembers this?

https://www.thewrap.com/ind-column/leno-conan-tonight-show-yours-13102

Trust me, he does...and doesn't care one bit. He also said in an interview a few months after he got the 10pm gig that if asked, he wouldn't think twice about going back to the Tonight Show at 11:35...great guy he is.

 

[barbelith]

He also said in an interview a few months after he got the 10pm gig that if asked, he wouldn't think twice about going back to the Tonight Show at 11:35...great guy he is.

But who would? It's a business. Is NBC just supposed to take a hit to its pocketbook out of the kindness of its heart? The fact remains that Conan isn't performing.

To be honest I think this snafu really underlines how late night talk is over as a format. I sincerely doubt Leno is going to regain his audience when he returns to the slot.

 

[LChinoz]

Your argument only works if ratings hold from 10pm to 12:35pm. But they don't. Viewers may stay for local news, but they don't stay mindlessly from the preceding program to the late night talk show. Viewers have a preference for hosts. People who watch Letterman watch Letterman. They don't watch Conan if they happen to be on a different channel.

And anyone working here in LA knows the affiliates are all crazy.

I lawled . The ratings are not going to hold up because the market for Late Night TV is a lot smaller than that of Prime Time shows. A lot of people do not watch the news at all. Even more do not watch what comes after the news. While 15mil viewers is good for a Primetime show, you'd be lucky to get 1/3 of that for Late Night shows. My point is that the audience that does stay, does infact get lead in to whatever show is on that network. You'd think people would not be so lazy that they would pick up the remote and change the channel, but you'd be surprised how lazy people are these days...

 

[LChinoz]

But who would? It's a business. Is NBC just supposed to take a hit to its pocketbook out of the kindness of its heart? The fact remains that Conan isn't performing.

To be honest I think this snafu really underlines how late night talk is over as a format. I sincerely doubt Leno is going to regain his audience when he returns to the slot.

Understandable, but in the eyes of viewers, a ********* move. And there is no doubt the Late Night format as it is now is not as strong, but the entire TV experience is changing. With hulu and Tivo people are able to catch them whenever they want to. Most of the people I know never watched the Tonight Show on the air, but rather watched them on hulu or in the case of The Daily Show/Colbert Report, comedycentral.com. Like I said, the times they are a changin...

 

[barbelith]

The ratings are not going to hold up because the market for Late Night TV is a lot smaller than that of Prime Time shows.

Right. Because people watch what they want to watch, and most people just aren't interested in late night talk. There's an incredible changeover during late local news, with viewers from the preceding show switching off and viewers waiting for the late night talk show tuning in. Those viewers are there for a particular host.

Or to put it another way, how many of you follow a host vs have a random lottery every night based on what's on at 10pm? The audience research doesn't support your thesis. Affiliates just like complaining and passing the buck.

 

[barbelith]

Understandable, but in the eyes of viewers, a ********* move.

Maybe. But if they cared, they'd be watching Conan in the first place.

in the case of The Daily Show/Colbert Report

I don't think we can lump these in with late shows.

 

[karamazov80]

Actually no, he had the Local News, just like Conan. And saying this years news sucked compaired to last isn't exactly something you can blame

Leno wasn't the lead-in to Conan. They both had half an hour of "local programming" as the preceding slot - usually local news. It's no use blaming Leno (who I dislike, incidentally).

What he says:

And anyone in the TV business will tell you that a prime time lead-in is very important for these types of shows, not the news lead-in, which generally people could watch on any channel.

People are lazy, and leave one show on after another.

 

[barbelith]

People are lazy, and leave one show on after another.

The problem with this line of reasoning is that nobody actually watches TV this way these days. Pick a show you enjoy. Do you tune in for that show? Or do you only watch it because you can't be bothered to change the channel, and watch that network's entire evening of programming?

Or let me guess - we're all special.

 

[karamazov80]

Look, I don't hardly watch any TV show regularly except PTI. My argument is that Conan never got the shot Leno did because he was put in a worse position. The deck was stacked against him obtaining an audience from the get-go, though Leno never had this problem. You can't prove otherwise, because Leno took over his new show so quickly after Conan took over the Tonight Show. Maybe Conan would have been a failure anyway, maybe he wouldn't have been, but NBC through Leno didn't give him that opportunity. Conan paid his dues, was told he would have a shot, then had that shot ripped away from him because NBC and Leno both suck. That's the long and short of it.

 

[barbelith]

Look, I don't hardly watch any TV show regularly except PTI.

So what you're saying is that you defeat your own argument. Or you're special.

My argument is that Conan never got the shot Leno did because he was put in a worse position.

I find it difficult to imagine a worse position than replacing the most beloved late night host in TV history.

Conan paid his dues, was told he would have a shot, then had that shot ripped away from him because...

...he couldn't sustain or attract an audience.

 

[karamazov80]

So what you're saying is that you defeat your own argument. Or you're special.

I find it difficult to imagine a worse position than replacing the most beloved late night host in TV history.

...he couldn't sustain or attract an audience.

My argument that people are lazy and leave the tv on after their favorite primetime show holds. I personally didn't understand (and still don't) your whole "you're special" argument, but let me see. I'm not like most people because I've got more education and toys than 90+% of the populace, so yeah, I guess I'm "special" in those respects. So what? It's probably best not to assume that our individual TV watching behavior matches with the masses, unless your IQ is the median, and if you are the median age, have a median income, live in Ohio or Pennsylvania, etc. etc. If that is you and you are not "special," than admit to it and I will concede every argument you make. If not, then stop acting like anyone posting here is a typical American TV viewer. It's ridiculous.

For your second "point," try to put yourself in the viewer's shoes at that time. What were their options? Leno, Letterman, and Arsenio Hall. None of those guys could touch Carson, but Letterman was too edgy to take his fanbase, and Hall had a different audience. The move from Leno to O'Brien is more extreme than the move from Carson to Leno, because anyone watching Carson understood Leno. Leno wasn't as funny or smart or good in any way, but he was easy to digest and was the easiest transition. Conan is edgier than Leno and has a particular sense of humor that the elderly or mentally challenged can't understand. Like I said before, it wouldn't surprise me if Conan would fail (if given a fair shake, which he wasn't), in part because of this.

For your last point, O'Brien had 7 months and most of those had Leno's lame ass leading in. He never had a real shot, period. You can refuse to take context into account all you want, but that doesn't change the reality of the situation.

 

[LChinoz]

So what you're saying is that you defeat your own argument. Or you're special.



I find it difficult to imagine a worse position than replacing the most beloved late night host in TV history.



...he couldn't sustain or attract an audience.

anyone see something wrong with this? Just because people liked falling asleep to his show doesn't mean he is beloved. Honestly, ratings mean "beloved" as much as box office equals "great movie." And you still haven't addresed the fact that Jay's ratings vs. Letterman were horrid for his first two years. And at that time more people watched TV shows actually on TV. Do you think with this in mind Conan got a fair shake?

Besides the whole not enough time argument, how would Jay have done if Johnny Carson had gotten a 1 hour show right before him? We'll never know because Johnny graciously retired, at the top of his game.

 

[LChinoz]

My argument that people are lazy and leave the tv on after their favorite primetime show holds. I personally didn't understand (and still don't) your whole "you're special" argument, but let me see. I'm not like most people because I've got more education and toys than 90+% of the populace, so yeah, I guess I'm "special" in those respects. So what? It's probably best not to assume that our individual TV watching behavior matches with the masses, unless your IQ is the median, and if you are the median age, have a median income, live in Ohio or Pennsylvania, etc. etc. If that is you and you are not "special," than admit to it and I will concede every argument you make. If not, then stop acting like anyone posting here is a typical American TV viewer. It's ridiculous.

For your second "point," try to put yourself in the viewer's shoes at that time. What were their options? Leno, Letterman, and Arsenio Hall. None of those guys could touch Carson, but Letterman was too edgy to take his fanbase, and Hall had a different audience. The move from Leno to O'Brien is more extreme than the move from Carson to Leno, because anyone watching Carson understood Leno. Leno wasn't as funny or smart or good in any way, but he was easy to digest and was the easiest transition. Conan is edgier than Leno and has a particular sense of humor that the elderly or mentally challenged can't understand. Like I said before, it wouldn't surprise me if Conan would fail (if given a fair shake, which he wasn't), in part because of this.

For your last point, O'Brien had 7 months and most of those had Leno's lame ass leading in. He never had a real shot, period. You can refuse to take context into account all you want, but that doesn't change the reality of the situation.

And don't forget, Conan always did well with the most coveted group: 18-49.

"The advertiser-coveted adults 18-49 ratings give O'Brien a 2.3 average rating last week -- the highest-rated week for "Tonight" in more than four years and a 156% margin over CBS' "Late Show."

Even excluding the high-rated Monday premiere, "Tonight" held an 111% advantage over "Late Show," marking the best percentage advantage over the CBS program in more than 10 years. Even on their closest night, Friday, O'Brien received a 1.5 rating to Letterman's 0.8.

The numbers helped push “Late Night with Jimmy Fallon” to its highest weeklong demo rating yet (1.0), with a 67% margin over CBS’s “Late Late Show with Craig Ferguson." Also, "Last Call with Carson Daly" delivered its biggest rating (0.6) since 2007.

NBC issued a press release declaring O'Brien "The New King of Late Night."

“This is beyond our wildest expectations,” said Rick Ludwin, executive vp, late night and primetime series, NBC Entertainment. “Conan has brought new younger viewers to 11:35 pm and we're gratified that the demographic trend has continued here in week two, where the early numbers continue to show dominant victories, in all the key categories, for ‘The Tonight Show’.”

https://www.thrfeed.com/2009/06/conan-obrien-regains-lead-palin-letterman.html

Surprise surprise, this his numbers went down after Jay got his 10pm snorefest. Coincidence? But his numbers among 18-49 were always strong:

https://tvbythenumbers.com/2010/01/04/conan-beats-dave-with-18-49-viewers-in-4th-quarter/37565

"CONAN O’BRIEN TIES ‘LATE SHOW’ IN 18-49 RATING AND JIMMY FALLON MATCHES ‘LATE LATE SHOW’ FOR THE WEEK OF DEC. 21-25

CONAN AND JIMMY ALSO TIE FOR #1 FOR THE FOURTH QUARTER OF 2009 IN 18-49 RATING AND CONAN TOPS LETTERMAN FOR THE QUARTER IN 18-49 VIEWERS"

 

[CelticPredator]

7 months. Did they honestly expect Conan to be number one right away? I didnt even watch the show, because I KNEW it would get better. Nothing is fantastic on it's first run. And if it is, it fizzles out quickly.

They never give anyone a chance now a days on TV. They never let a show become it's own. It's either be number one first day, or bye bye.

 

[barbelith]

My argument that people are lazy and leave the tv on after their favorite primetime show holds.

But you admit you don't do this yourself. So how does it hold? Even your anecdotal evidence contradicts the assertion.

 

[barbelith]

Just because people liked falling asleep to his show doesn't mean he is beloved.

Unless you're 12 years old and genuinely lack historical context, now it's clear you're arguing just to argue.

And you still haven't addresed the fact that Jay's ratings vs. Letterman were horrid for his first two years. And at that time more people watched TV shows actually on TV. Do you think with this in mind Conan got a fair shake?

Leno clearly got high enough ratings in the context to be considered worth backing. Conan didn't. It's a business.

Besides the whole not enough time argument, how would Jay have done if Johnny Carson had gotten a 1 hour show right before him?

Leno had local programming right before him. So did Conan.

 

[karamazov80]

But you admit you don't do this yourself. So how does it hold? Even your anecdotal evidence contradicts the assertion.

Did you understand my previous post at all? I guess not. Last time I waste time trying to respond to you.

 

[barbelith]

Did you understand my previous post at all?

You mean the one where you insisted you were right despite no evidence whatsoever, and your own behavior contradicting your assertion?

 

[karamazov80]

https://www.truthpizza.org/logic/bignum.htm