Captain America 2: The Winter Soldier (SPOILERS)

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Re: Captain America 2: The Winter Soldier

Because it's a post Avengers movie and frankly, it's strange to see things like the President of America about to be murdered and Captain America not give one f.
 
Re: Captain America 2: The Winter Soldier

Because it's a post Avengers movie and frankly, it's strange to see things like the President of America about to be murdered and Captain America not give one f.

Bingo! As much as they've built SHIELD up to be in the middle of everything, I can't imagine they would have been involved in that on some level important enough to show us.
 
Re: Captain America 2: The Winter Soldier

Glad that more people are seeing this now so I can finally ask this.

Spoiler Spoiler:
 
Re: Captain America 2: The Winter Soldier

Hmm, in Avengers he got hurt pretty easily. He seemed more beat up and vulnerable than even Widow and Hawkeye.
 
Re: Captain America 2: The Winter Soldier

Glad that more people are seeing this now so I can finally ask this.

Spoiler Spoiler:

Spoiler Spoiler:
 
Re: Captain America 2: The Winter Soldier

Glad that more people are seeing this now so I can finally ask this.

Spoiler Spoiler:

Hmm, in Avengers he got hurt pretty easily. He seemed more beat up and vulnerable than even Widow and Hawkeye.

Spoiler Spoiler:

A couple of things;

1. In a non-confrontational way; who cares?

2. I strongly disagree that Captain America was "more beat up and vulnerable" than Hawkeye and Black Widow in The Avengers. Cap sees a LOT more action than either of them, and his fight scenes are a lot more physical. Hawkeye spends most of his time fighting from afar by shooting arrows, and the minute he gets involved in hand to hand combat, he flees and is then downed for a long time after he crashes through a window. We don't really see him after that, so I presume that he is still down.

Widow gets owned by the Hulk, and also spends a chunk of the final fight in long range combat with her pistols. When she gets involved in hand to hand combat, she does well, but looks exhausted when Cap approaches her about getting to the top of Stark Tower to disable the Tesseract. All she does then is pilot one of the Chitauri gliders to the top and disables the Tesseract.

Cap takes on Loki, deflects Mjolnir, fights a team of Loki-SHIELD agents on the Helicarrier, takes down 4-5 Chitauri alone when trying to co-ordinate the NYPD, takes down a further 3-4 Chitauri in the Bank and saves the hostages, and then fights off further Chitauri whilst taking an alien bullet to the stomach (and gets up). Sure he looks tired after all this, but he is still a human, NOT a super-being.

Which brings me on to...

3. Do people realise he is a human being and not a super-being? His Super Soldier Serum just enhances his skills and body to the peak of human conditioning. He is not a God, nor does he have a suit of combat armour to do his work for him.

4. That being said...remember this; in The Avengers, Captain America had just been thawed out from 70 years of frozen sleep, and was fighting Aliens and Gods from other worlds (Loki and the Chitauri). That's a human soldier versus Gods and Aliens. In this film, I'd say 1-2 years have passed since The Avengers, so Cap has had time to get himself back up to full strength and return his body to his WWII peak. Also, he is on a more level playing field, fighting agents, soldiers, and assassins.
 
Re: Captain America 2: The Winter Soldier

He also jumps off a god damn building in TWS and just lands and runs like nothing happened along with the jump out the Quinjet into the ocean to board the ship (both scenes are in the trailers so I don't see them as spoilers). To me it looks like he's doing some extraordinary things but in this universe we haven't really seen him tested to his full abilities and him at his full capacity. As was said, he wasn't long thawed in Avengers....
 
Re: Captain America 2: The Winter Soldier

In TFA he fought HYDRA aircrafts in the freaking sky before facing his arch-enemy.
In "Avengers" he fought an army of mechanised aliens.
Here it's just people with guns.

. . .

Tho I'm not surprised one bit.
At this point people are spoiled with pseudo-realistic over-chewed nolanish stuff.
 
Re: Captain America 2: The Winter Soldier

That's the wonderful thing about Marvel Studios; they are unashamed in their presentation of comic-book characters in a comic-book story, and they give us the sometimes unbelievable exploits that we shoud expect from a comic-book story. They don't feel the need to make things fit in with reality. They are proud of their characters and want to show them off, and rightly so.
 
Re: Captain America 2: The Winter Soldier

I actually enjoyed the fact that he was presented as being more 'super' in this one

It puts him in a better position in the MCU, I had friends who thought he wasn't so super The Avengers

I disagreed with them. Oh well
 
Re: Captain America 2: The Winter Soldier

In the comics he is well beyond human capabilities. In the Ultimate Universe(which these films borrow from) He is capable of of holding his own against Hulk for a few minutes. Don't get me wrong, eventually Hulk got pissed and handed him his ***, but for a few minutes his speed and strength kept him in the fight. In the Ultimate U he beat up Giant Man with his bare hands. Basically he could beat every Avenger except Thor and Hulk. But he has been shown the be worthy of lifting Mjolnir so there is that.

I would put Cap just in the weight class of Luke Cage and Colossus. Very strong, but nowhere near guys like Thor, Hulk, Spider-man, etc.
 
Re: Captain America 2: The Winter Soldier

In the comics he is well beyond human capabilities. In the Ultimate Universe(which these films borrow from) He is capable of of holding his own against Hulk for a few minutes. Don't get me wrong, eventually Hulk got pissed and handed him his ***, but for a few minutes his speed and strength kept him in the fight. In the Ultimate U he beat up Giant Man with his bare hands. Basically he could beat every Avenger except Thor and Hulk. But he has been shown the be worthy of lifting Mjolnir so there is that.

I would put Cap just in the weight class of Luke Cage and Colossus. Very strong, but nowhere near guys like Thor, Hulk, Spider-man, etc.

That is pretty much how he is shown in this film...

All I'm saying is that, in the Avengers, he had just been revived from 70 years of stasis, so he wasn't at his peak like he was in WWII. By the time CA;TWS takes place, he has had another 1-2 years getting back to normal. That's how I see it anyway.

I don't see THAT much of a difference between CA:TFA>TA>CA:TWS anyway... Remember that with The Avengers no character had the entire film to show off what they could do.
 
Re: Captain America 2: The Winter Soldier

That is pretty much how he is shown in this film...

All I'm saying is that, in the Avengers, he had just been revived from 70 years of stasis, so he wasn't at his peak like he was in WWII. By the time CA;TWS takes place, he has had another 1-2 years getting back to normal. That's how I see it anyway.

I don't see THAT much of a difference between CA:TFA>TA>CA:TWS anyway... Remember that with The Avengers no character had the entire film to show off what they could do.

except Tony Stark, you mean:wink1:
 
Re: Captain America 2: The Winter Soldier

I think Cap could take Spidey if he ran out of webbing.

How? Spider-man has the proportionate strength and speed of a man sized spider. Pete is really out of Cap's league. Pete, much like Bobby Drake/Iceman, just doesn't really use/understand his powers. Doc Ock in his body has shown that Pete is in a whole other ballpark when it comes to speed and strength. Same when Emma Frost took over Bobby and showed him that he was an Omega Level mutant. He just lacks the focus and drive to push himself. Even the writer's at marvel kind of goof on Pete's power level. If he's essentially got the speed and strength of a human sized spider, Pete should crush people like Otto. Hell he basically emasculated Kingpin in prison after Kingpin had Aunt May shot.

In practical terms, Cap can throw an engine block. Pete can throw the whole car.
 
Re: Captain America 2: The Winter Soldier

Which brings me on to...

3. Do people realise he is a human being and not a super-being? His Super Soldier Serum just enhances his skills and body to the peak of human conditioning. He is not a God, nor does he have a suit of combat armour to do his work for him.

4. That being said...remember this; in The Avengers, Captain America had just been thawed out from 70 years of frozen sleep, and was fighting Aliens and Gods from other worlds (Loki and the Chitauri). That's a human soldier versus Gods and Aliens. In this film, I'd say 1-2 years have passed since The Avengers, so Cap has had time to get himself back up to full strength and return his body to his WWII peak. Also, he is on a more level playing field, fighting agents, soldiers, and assassins.

Peak of human conditioning does not grant you a healing factor that allows you to wake up after decades frozen in ice, it doesn't allow you to bail out of an airplane without a parachute at an altitude of hundreds of feet and hit the water feet first, it doesn't grant you superhuman strength and agility, nor does it allow you to easily leap 50+ feet. I'll agree that Cap sees more action in Avengers, but it's ridiculous to claim he's not "super human."

Watch the Olympics to see the peak of human conditioning and then compare that with Cap. HUGE difference. :lol
 
Re: Captain America 2: The Winter Soldier

except Tony Stark, you mean:wink1:

Yeah, but we always knew that it was going to be Iron Man and the Avengers unfortunately. Although I think the focus kind of shifted back and forth between Stark and Rogers throughout the movie.

Back to the main point; this movie is very very good and I am very much looking forward to seeing it again! I think Chris Evans has solidified his ownership of the Captain America role. Although I felt he had done that after The Avengers anyway.

My rankings so far;

1. The Avengers - 10/10
2. Captain America: The Winter Soldier - 9/10
3. Iron Man - 9/10
4. Captain America: The First Avenger - 9/10
5. Thor - 8/10
6. Thor: The Dark World - 8/10
7. The Incredible Hulk - 7/10
8. Iron Man 2 - 7/10
9. Iron Man 3 - 7/10
 
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