Bioshock: Infinite

[Vader AL]

Not completely Bioshock Infinite related - but I've noticed the song "Beasts of America" that was in one of the Infinite trailers is getting a lot of play lately. It's played on the Major Cases new season commercial as well as the guitar part is heard in the Jack Reacher tv commercial. When ever I hear that song or any part of it...I can't help but think of Bioshock Infinite...and it makes me want to play it again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLHW78X1XeE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-C1I8XCpQU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBLcOEGbS68

Jen the first step is recognizing you have a problem..then getting help. Or beating it again.

 

[Jen]

. I'll opt for beating it again.

 

[Uncanny Web-Slinger]

Finished this about an hour ago, did some investigating to clear things up in my head.

It's Genius. There are naturally things i can't fully understand as they go beyond my comprehension but that's okay. Such an amazing story.

Gonna play again to catch all the hints and foreshadowing of the state of things

 

[SAB]

Finished the game over the weekend. Really enjoyed the game even though I've sworn off violent FPS games. I loved Elizabeth as she was an amazing woman and a great companion. I wasn't a huge fan of the ending though. I felt the mindblowing reveal was a bit tacked on and not set up as well as it could have been.

Have you guys discussed the changes in the game since the first demo? Wonder if we'll see some of these elements in the DLC or maybe even Levine's next game?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJV5ReOSjF0

Very interesting clip thanks.

I'm someone who doesn't follow game development closely. I tend to watch early promo/launch preview stuff and then buys the final game 1 year plus down the line.

I was disappointed in many ways with Bioshock Infinite as it definitely didn't deliver on what I 'thought' I remembered from the initial videos and this clip pretty much confirms that.

A gigantic living openworld with monorail lines you could move through at will and the ever present songbird that could appear at any moment ....which became a very linear standard shooter in my eyes .... though with a story that was enjoyable enough that I played through to the end.

I also found it odd that despite vigors being freely available (and in the game intro people even walking around handing them out) none of the NPCs you meet seemed to use them at all, other than a select few repeating bad guy types.

 

[Deckard]

This game had a better story than any movie this year easy, and most movies and games of the past decade.

Definately an experiance I'll never forget.

 

[RyanSD]

Finished the game today. I must say I was somewhat disappointed overall. The game started out great, then hits this lull, especially when

Spoiler:

Dealing with the Chen dead/alive stuff and then especially the Vox stuff(which seemed totally pointless once the end is shown)

and then kind of picked up towards the end, then the gameplay portion abruptly ends and you're left with 20 minutes of narrative exposition and then the game ends,which kind of fell flat for me.

Spoiler:

There was no epic showdown between you and Comstock or the Songbird, or anything 'epic' which was disappointing.

I liked the ending, and it might be a stronger story over a second play through, but another thing that I didn't like was the game felt too linear. Whereas the first 2, while still a linear FPS, had much more of an exploratory feel to them. Which leads to this...

Finished the game over the weekend. Really enjoyed the game even though I've sworn off violent FPS games. I loved Elizabeth as she was an amazing woman and a great companion. I wasn't a huge fan of the ending though. I felt the mindblowing reveal was a bit tacked on and not set up as well as it could have been.

Have you guys discussed the changes in the game since the first demo? Wonder if we'll see some of these elements in the DLC or maybe even Levine's next game?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJV5ReOSjF0

I remember first reading about and seeing the early footage back in 2010 and being excited about the notion of an 'open world' Bioshock game, but this isn't what we got. Maybe they were too ambitious, or maybe they changed the game midway through to adhere to the story changes, but the game felt a bit disjointed.

Overall I liked it, but it didn't have the overall awe-inspiring presentation and gripping story that the first game did.

 

[Uncanny Web-Slinger]

I'd love some replicas of the Vigor bottles. A maquette of Songbird and a PF of Elizabeth.

 

[dominishin]

This game had a better story than any movie this year easy, and most movies and games of the past decade.

Oof, lofty statement, I guess if we're ignoring the good movies and only talking about "mainstream" stuff you see commercials for.

 

[Uncanny Web-Slinger]

Stuck on a trophy. I did the Bucking Bronco + Charge combination and it said in the corner 1/8 combinations, i've since done all others and none have come up with the notification.

I also kitted up a gun and vigor ad didn't get the trophy for that

 

[Deckard]

Oof, lofty statement, I guess if we're ignoring the good movies and only talking about "mainstream" stuff you see commercials for.

Mainstream is garbage, what's better in your opinion? And I fully consider things like Inception and The Matrix mainstream and this better. The ability to weave a heartfelt father daughter story into an adult sc-fi fairy tale with so many adult themes like the revolt of working classes and racism in a world in the clouds with alternate universe theories and time loop/travel theories and connect to other games in the franchise and still be completely solid in it's storytelling is unmatched so far as I'm concerned.

 

[Uncanny Web-Slinger]

So there's loads of interesting theories going around about this game.

One of the more interesting takes us back to Bioshock 2

In Infinite there is a theme of constants & variables. Some choices you make are not really choices as the outcome remains the same and others split off into two seperate worlds, one where you chose one option and the other where you chose the other.

The coin flip of the Luteces is a constant. Booker always flips a head as in that moment of time it's where fate takes hold. Throwing the ball is a constant, throwing it at the interacial couple or the raffle announcer still results in them seeing the AD brand on your hand and attacking you.

Choosing the broach for Elizabeth is a variable and forks the road depending on which you choose.

It is said there are three key variables among all timelines. A man (player) a City (place you play) and lighthouse (where you start each game)

So going back to Bioshock 2 the man is Delta who discovered the Lighthouse which led to the City of Rapture.

All constants for the game universes.

Eleanor Lamb could be the Bioshock 2 version of Elizabeth, Delta her father and Eleanor filling the Comstock role. Since Elizabeth was being groomed to be the Lamb of the Prophet and Eleanors last name is Lamb and she is being rescued and led out of the city by the man who entered throught the lighthouse it kinda fits.

Not as Bookers lineage but as a constant theme across universes.

 

[Uncanny Web-Slinger]

So there's one thing i'm having trouble with: the killing of ALL Comstocks.

This diagram

and answer #1 of this link explain it really well.

Branch 0 is Booker who goes through with the Baptism and becomes Comstock who goes on to make differing decisions resulting in more realities.

Branch 1 is the Booker who doesn't go through with the Baltism and goes on to make differeing decisions.

But there's one issue i have with it....

In life there is constants and variables. Constants are fewer and further between but the fact that Comstock was born at the time of Baptism and killing Comstock just after that kills all Comstocks from that moment on doesn't sit entirely right with me.

Booker before this baptism will have made hundreds of choices that splintered off into tons of other timelines. Some where he didn't join the army or died during the battle of Wounded Knee, some where he was crippled as a child or where he moved to another city ect...

So if at some point in one or many of these timelines he got baptised later on or because of a different reason and became Comstock, then the Comstocks killed by Elizabeth would've been only the ones from the other (our) Baptism at that one particular point in time and not the ones that could have occured as a result of all the different decisions Booker made throughout his life.

So picture this on that diagram above.

Branch 0 is Booker who fights at Wounded Knee, he goes on to make differing decisions spawning other realities.

Branch 1 is Booker who doesn't fight at Wounded Knee.

So one of the forks of the road from branch 0 is one that leads to the creation of Comstock. But if Booker from branch 1 goes on to commit some other sins and gets baptised and becomes Comstock then Elizabeth won't have killed any of the potential Comstocks to spawn out of that timeline as they only focused on the Booker who did participate at wounded knee, leaving a multitude of possible Comstocks alive

But I suppose since they would be different Comstocks and different Columbias or no Columbias and different Elizabeths then that's a different story and not the one being told.

I guess what i'm saying is as long as Booker existed in the first place there is possibilities for Comstocks to be born again.

Only killing Booker at his birth can truly kill all possible Comstocks.

 

[The Josh]

Any word on the first dlc for this?

 

[SwedishHeat]

Choosing the broach for Elizabeth is a variable and forks the road depending on which you choose.

The choice of bird or cage has no impact on the story.

 

[Uncanny Web-Slinger]

Good point. But it's still a variable as it's one or the other, even though it doesn't affect anything it still creates an alternate universe where you picked the other

I suppose the baebsall does that too then

 

[Deckard]

So there's one thing i'm having trouble with: the killing of ALL Comstocks.

This diagram

and answer #1 of this link explain it really well.

Branch 0 is Booker who goes through with the Baptism and becomes Comstock who goes on to make differing decisions resulting in more realities.

Branch 1 is the Booker who doesn't go through with the Baltism and goes on to make differeing decisions.

But there's one issue i have with it....

In life there is constants and variables. Constants are fewer and further between but the fact that Comstock was born at the time of Baptism and killing Comstock just after that kills all Comstocks from that moment on doesn't sit entirely right with me.

Booker before this baptism will have made hundreds of choices that splintered off into tons of other timelines. Some where he didn't join the army or died during the battle of Wounded Knee, some where he was crippled as a child or where he moved to another city ect...

So if at some point in one or many of these timelines he got baptised later on or because of a different reason and became Comstock, then the Comstocks killed by Elizabeth would've been only the ones from the other (our) Baptism at that one particular point in time and not the ones that could have occured as a result of all the different decisions Booker made throughout his life.

So picture this on that diagram above.

Branch 0 is Booker who fights at Wounded Knee, he goes on to make differing decisions spawning other realities.

Branch 1 is Booker who doesn't fight at Wounded Knee.

So one of the forks of the road from branch 0 is one that leads to the creation of Comstock. But if Booker from branch 1 goes on to commit some other sins and gets baptised and becomes Comstock then Elizabeth won't have killed any of the potential Comstocks to spawn out of that timeline as they only focused on the Booker who did participate at wounded knee, leaving a multitude of possible Comstocks alive

But I suppose since they would be different Comstocks and different Columbias or no Columbias and different Elizabeths then that's a different story and not the one being told.

I guess what i'm saying is as long as Booker existed in the first place there is possibilities for Comstocks to be born again.

Only killing Booker at his birth can truly kill all possible Comstocks.

While Booker makes thousands of decisions upto that point none of those result in a Comstock. Perhaps in an alternate universe a choice as a child resulted in him changing his name to John Doe and working at a gas station but the only combination of events that result in Comstock is Wounded Knee Massacre + Accepting Baptism. Every other subsequent universe Comstock is a result of a ripple effect from that point forward when Comstock starts making his own decisions and so if you kill Booker before that one Comstock can ever even exist no other Comstocks can branch off of him. That is why killing the originating Booker can stop him, he is a branch of him and not his own original born into this world person. Killing someone at birth to stop that is impossible, because they would be born simultaneously into x amount of universe, and so the only way to stop it in that manner and erase any chance altogeather would be to identify the Booker that the first Comstock orginates from and then kill that Booker's father before Booker is even born into that universe, and to stop Booker from ever existing at all you would need to kill his father in the originating universe before conception.

 

[Uncanny Web-Slinger]

In all the multitude of possibilities one Booker probably stopped for a beer before heading to the baptism and arrived five minutes later. He went through with the baptism and birthed a Comstock five minutes out of whack with the booker that the Elizabeths killed thus making a seperate branch of comstocks.

They only killed the ones spawned from that one batpism at that one moment in time.

 

[Uncanny Web-Slinger]

Just finished 1999 mode.

Got all Trophies except 'Lost Weekend' and 'on the fly'

 

[Uncanny Web-Slinger]

Platinumed it

Got the last two when you first use the Skyhook on the rails. killed the guy while railing then drank the booze and killed the other and repeated a few times.

 

[Fritz]