Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (March 24th, 2016)

[DiFabio]

Saying that Martha was a witch that needed to be burned at the stake was weird, ****ed up ****. Those Polaroids man.

The little crazy, snot nosed brat angle was alright but I thought Eisenberg was a mistake. He did the whole sadistic thing well, but a lot of that dialogue doesn't work and the autistic whines he was doing was just embarrassing to watch. Good introduction with the basketball, but they needed to play up his superiorty complex and daddy issues more and cut it with the God talk. I can't explain it but it was like the love child of Jim Carrey Riddler and Heath Ledger Joker. Luthor even has the same line Riddler has from Batman Forever! The piss thing, the Polaroids and purposely leaving Mercy in the court room, practically encouraging her to stay were nice, sick villain touches, but like I said, it feels like it belongs for a different character in a different movie. I dunno. There was something really unsettling with the cherry jolly rancher and being alone with the Zod body too. It's an unsettling performance. I like the idea of using Mark Zuckerberg as like a template, that guy is manipulative and evil enough, but it's just so weird in a movie like this.

Should have had a traditional Luthor in there with Bryan Cranston like the alleged original intention when this was MoS 2. Then you'd have Affleck, Cranston, McNairy and Terrio of Argo in there. Lex has that line at the party in there like "Bruce, why don't you come check out our research and development" and I just kept thinking how much better it would have been if you had a Cranston Luthor and an Affleck Wayne finding a common goal in wanting to bring down Superman after the events of MoS and working together (having Batman see the error of his ways later on of course when he sees Luthor for what he really is).

I don't hate Eisenberg and he's definitely ACTING as a formidable opponent, but he's detrimental to the movie. A lot of the characters in this don't talk like real people. They keep spewing exposition and phony BS that just comes off as false. The Nolan movies had the same kind of unnatural, preachy BS dialogue too. With Lex, that's nearly all his lines. A lot of the time I wasn't even sure what Senator Finch and him were talking about because it was either an analogy or some pretentious nonsense. I did like when Eisenberg is spazzing out at the party and everyone including Bruce and Clark are almost like embarrassed for him.

 

[GasparZizou]

I'm hoping there's a steelbook, personally. Or even one of those digibooks, but then I'll feel ****** for not picking up the Man of Steel one.

I was gonna watch MoS Wednesday night in preparation for BvS the next day, but I was so bummed out with the reviews that I skipped it. Definitely gonna re-watch it Monday to see BvS again Tuesday.

I don't care if Steelbook or not, unless they come up with some cool ass art like Batman's mech armor cowl or something, because this movie didn't have good promotional art at all.

 

[Victοr]

So, now that we're past the whole review thing (I posted a big one back in page 3.400 or something if anyone cares) and are on the JL-Speculation part, I'll say my piece (cause that's my favourite aspect of CBMs, the speculating):

I think people are getting carried away with Injustice. There, Superman, after having his wife and child murdered (by his own hands), goes all "ORDER!" in the world. He doesn't destroy it, or turn it into a wasteland. The world keeps on spinning and everything remains relatively "normal". Heck, even some heroes join him in his quest for peace through extreme order and laws. What we saw in the Knightmare sequences was a wasteland that signaled a dead world. I hardly got an Injustice feel, truth be told. More like a "Superman gone Rogue" thing...

Personally, I got a New 52 Earth 2 Vibe. There, after the death of the Trinity, the less known heroes step-up to combat Darkseid's forces. Around the middle mark, he sends down his generals, and one of them is a hulkling beast named "Brutaal", who turns out to be a brainwashed Superman. Thing is, this Superman doesn't care about order, he cares about destruction and Darkseid's will. In the end he's revealed to be a Bizzaro-esque clone, but that's not the point (the series got worse and worse).

Point is, whereas Injustice Superman wanted to protect the world through an iron first, Earth 2 "Superman" just brought destruction, misery and pain. Besides, from what I remember, INJUSTICE Superman doesn't have any affiliation with Darkseid. He aligns himself with the Sinestro Corps. Though I could be mistaken, since I haven't played the game. Nevertheless, the landscape I saw reminded me more of the Pits and the Zones in Earth 2, than it did Injustice.

As for the visions, my guess is that it's simply Desaad, or someone else from Apokolips, showing both Bruce and Lex visions, in order to turn them on each other (and Superman), so that the Earth will be defenseless and ripe for the taking. They're obviously not dreams, I tink that much is clear. The Flash thing is kinda out of place. Is it part of the vision? Is Flash sorta-dimension hopping now? We kinda need an explaination... My gues is that he just travelled back in time, but it's such a "violent" even for passerbys, that Bruce simply doesn't "remember" it.

As for Luthor, he's obviously talking about Darkseid and his mind has been corrupted. It makes sense for him to be such a crazy SOB if someone's messing with his head, but I found that aspect unnecessary. Lex is a great character, and I wanted to see him in all his Ubersmench glory, so this takes away a lot from him. I mean, surrent, comic book Lex became the new Lord of Apokolips and Movie Lex is being manipulated? Come on man, this is Doom being character assasinated once again...

As I've said already, and will continue to say so, the movie was a bad foundation, but it had some salvagable parts. But, if you want the Justice League movie to be good, you have to drop Snyder. The subject is far too tricky, and he just proved that he can't handle such "larger than life" characters. The Leaguers are like the 12 Gods of Olympus as Morrison pointed out, so you need to add an element of mythological greatness and weight to them. Snyder, can't, period. The whole point of these characters is that while they're Gods and above us common folks, they still identify as humans and operate out of kindness and love. They are otherwordly, but they make an effort to adapt. Snyder just goes all "Gods walk the Earth, GODS!" and I promise you, if he directs it, we'll just get a bunch of pseudo-intellectual BS and theological-comentary that I could find on Tumbler's "Inspirational and Though Provoking Thoughts" section...

So yeah, this was a mediocre start, but it didn't destroy the whole DCEU for me. It in no way deserves a 29%, but even the audience score keeps dropping, so I dunno. For me it's a 50-60% movie. Anyway, I am excited about the prospect of a more "mature" universe (I still LOVE the cheese of the MCU, but I have no problem with a different approach), but not with Snyder at the helm. He has proven time and time again that he doesn't care about the core of these characters. All he wants is to project his "vision" onto them and use them merely as blank drawing boards for his personal whims. If he does indeed end up directing JL, well, **** it...

 

[GasparZizou]

I can't explain it. It was like the love child of Jim Carrey Riddler and Heath Ledger Joker. .

>I can't explain it
>explains it perfectly well


Yup, that's pretty much my opinion. It's crazy, he might end up being a better Joker than Leto

 

[batfan08]

To me, between The Flash's warning, and Batman's nightmare, it feels like it's almost an amalgam of Injustice and the end of Superman: TAS, where, perhaps, evil Superman is Darkseid's proxy on earth.

 

[GasparZizou]

I think people are getting carried away with Injustice. There, Superman, after having his wife and child murdered (by his own hands), goes all "ORDER!" in the world. He doesn't destroy it, or turn it into a wasteland. The world keeps on spinning and everything remains relatively "normal". Heck, even some heroes join him in his quest for peace through extreme order and laws. What we saw in the Knightmare sequences was a wasteland that signaled a dead world. I hardly got an Injustice feel, truth be told. More like a "Superman gone Rogue" thing...

I'd say Injustice-esque, not quite full Injustice, I think Darkseid makes Supes one of his lieutenants. Just, instead of President Superman, we have Darkseid.

Hell, Injustice works better with Snyderman than with Classic Superman, Classic Superman would NEVER go full dictator like that even if he was tricked to kill Lois, but Hopeman? He totally would, he's like a teenager in those movies of teachers trying to reform the delinquent youths, a teenager that is good in heart but that is not really fully formed of character and can ruin his life with bad guidance, that is Hopeman.

Personally, I got a New 52 Earth 2 Vibe. There, after the death of the Trinity, the less known heroes step-up to combat Darkseid's forces. Around the middle mark, he sends down his generals, and one of them is a hulkling beast named "Brutaal", who turns out to be a brainwashed Superman. Thing is, this Superman doesn't care about order, he cares about destruction and Darkseid's will. In the end he's revealed to be a Bizzaro-esque clone, but that's not the point (the series got worse and worse).

This works pretty well too, as long as I get to see Supes being an agent of Darkseid.

Point is, whereas Injustice Superman wanted to protect the world through an iron first, Earth 2 "Superman" just brought destruction, misery and pain. Besides, from what I remember, INJUSTICE Superman doesn't have any affiliation with Darkseid. He aligns himself with the Sinestro Corps. Though I could be mistaken, since I haven't played the game. Nevertheless, the landscape I saw reminded me more of the Pits and the Zones in Earth 2, than it did Injustice.

Nope, you are right. Sinestro Corps it is.

As for the visions, my guess is that it's simply Desaad, or someone else from Apokolips, showing both Bruce and Lex visions, in order to turn them on each other (and Superman), so that the Earth will be defenseless and ripe for the taking. They're obviously not dreams, I tink that much is clear. The Flash thing is kinda out of place. Is it part of the vision? Is Flash sorta-dimension hopping now? We kinda need an explaination... My gues is that he just travelled back in time, but it's such a "violent" even for passerbys, that Bruce simply doesn't "remember" it.

Well, Flash has always been dimension hopping and time hopping.

As for Luthor, he's obviously talking about Darkseid and his mind has been corrupted. It makes sense for him to be such a crazy SOB if someone's messing with his head, but I found that aspect unnecessary. Lex is a great character, and I wanted to see him in all his Ubersmench glory, so this takes away a lot from him. I mean, surrent, comic book Lex became the new Lord of Apokolips and Movie Lex is being manipulated? Come on man, this is Doom being character assasinated once again...

Agreed. But I'm affraid there will be no Ubermensch Luthor in this universe.

As I've said already, and will continue to say so, the movie was a bad foundation, but it had some salvagable parts. But, if you want the Justice League movie to be good, you have to drop Snyder. The subject is far too tricky, and he just proved that he can't handle such "larger than life" characters. The Leaguers are like the 12 Gods of Olympus as Morrison pointed out, so you need to add an element of mythological greatness and weight to them. Snyder, can't, period. The whole point of these characters is that while they're Gods and above us common folks, they still identify as humans and operate out of kindness and love. They are otherwordly, but they make an effort to adapt. Snyder just goes all "Gods walk the Earth, GODS!" and I promise you, if he directs it, we'll just get a bunch of pseudo-intellectual BS and theological-comentary that I could find on Tumbler's "Inspirational and Though Provoking Thoughts" section...

I disagree with this, I think he made this movie pure mythology, at the cost of characterization maybe.

Like WWEJedi said pages back, I would keep Snyder as consultant though, but they can bring George Miller at this point and I would be fine with it.

 

[DiFabio]

>I can't explain it
>explains it perfectly well


Yup, that's pretty much my opinion. It's crazy, he might end up being a better Joker than Leto

If knowledge is power, than a God, I am.









How about those ****ing CGI leaves in the beginning of the opening logos? Terrible.

 

[chewblacca]

I didn't like man of steel at all, and I thought Batman v Superman was much better story wise. There was more than I'm going to beat on you till I get what I want.
The movie had a lot to do and I wished some parts were taken out to tighten things up, but overall I enjoyed it.

 

[GasparZizou]

How about those ****ing CGI leaves in the beginning of the opening logos? Terrible.

I thought the CGI leaves and pearls looked fine.

Doomsday though, what total ****fest.

I get that he looked stupid when he was born, but would it have killed them to give him all the spikes and bones after a ****ing NUKE? I also didn't like Zombie Supes, I liked the idea and that it was done in space, the framing was great, but the CGI itself look awkward and unintentionally funny a bit.

 

[crows]

he is not so sad anymore

 

[chewblacca]

I thought the CGI leaves and pearls looked fine.

Doomsday though, what total ****fest.

I get that he looked stupid when he was born, but would it have killed them to give him all the spikes and bones after a ****ing NUKE? I also didn't like Zombie Supes, I liked the idea and that it was done in space, the framing was great, but the CGI itself look awkward and unintentionally funny a bit.

Yeah, I thought so too. I always thought that Supes got his powers from the sun. So maybe he would float in its direction or something to get energized and back to normal.

 

[Victοr]

I'd say Injustice-esque, not quite full Injustice, I think Darkseid makes Supes one of his lieutenants. Just, instead of President Superman, we have Darkseid.

Hell, Injustice works better with Snyderman than with Classic Superman, Classic Superman would NEVER go full dictator like that even if he was tricked to kill Lois, but Hopeman? He totally would, he's like a teenager in those movies of teachers trying to reform the delinquent youths, a teenager that is good in heart but that is not really fully formed of character and can ruin his life with bad guidance, that is Hopeman.


This works pretty well too, as long as I get to see Supes being an agent of Darkseid.


Nope, you are right. Sinestro Corps it is.


Well, Flash has always been dimension hopping and time hopping.

Personally I don't like such choices as they diminish Superman, but I can see it working from a storytelling view-point, so I'm not opossed to it. It'd certainly be different than the good guys teaming up to fight the bad guys. And hey, the more Knightmare Bats the better...

Agreed. But I'm affraid there will be no Ubermensch Luthor in this universe.

Which is a damn travesty! Luthor's one of the greatest villains in comics. He jsut became the new Darkseid for ****'s sake, and all we get is "Junior"? But eh, they could always pull a whammy and bring Lex Sr. as THE Lex.

I disagree with this, I think he made this movie pure mythology, at the cost of characterization maybe.

Like WWEJedi said pages back, I would keep Snyder as consultant though, but they can bring George Miller at this point and I would be fine with it.

Personally, I grew up with Greek Mythology. My firsts books were myths and heroes battling the good fight, and, IMO at least, he completely missed the mark. He tried to mix Hybris, in this case Superman's actions as an unlawful "God" and Batman's vigilante war, with Tisis, in this case Luthor's scheme. He tries, he maybe has good intentions, but he can't pull it of. Not everyone can make a good Tragedy, and eve less pull can pull off a Comedy. In the Ancient years Comedies were about hot topics, and mostly a reflection of society through the eyes of the heroes. The Tragedies were the completely fictional stories. So, in a way, he's trying to make a "Comedy", but through the glasses of a Tragedy, but he ends up with a muddled movie.

Eh, maybe he can stay as an assistant or just for the fight scenes, but I in no way want him as the guy behind the camera when JL starts rolling. He's got a set vision, and that's cool, but he doesn't respect the established character. He treats them like pieces of clay that are his to play with...

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

How about those ****ing CGI leaves in the beginning of the opening logos? Terrible.

I actually thought it was some kind of theater commercial

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

I thought the CGI leaves and pearls looked fine.

Doomsday though, what total ****fest.

I get that he looked stupid when he was born, but would it have killed them to give him all the spikes and bones after a ****ing NUKE? I also didn't like Zombie Supes, I liked the idea and that it was done in space, the framing was great, but the CGI itself look awkward and unintentionally funny a bit.

Zombie Superman looked like the yellow Bastard with that big round nose Also, a guy in my theater said, Doomsday has no ****!!

 

[GasparZizou]

Personally, I grew up with Greek Mythology. My firsts books were myths and heroes battling the good fight, and, IMO at least, he completely missed the mark. He tried to mix Hybris, in this case Superman's actions as an unlawful "God" and Batman's vigilante war, with Tisis, in this case Luthor's scheme. He tries, he maybe has good intentions, but he can't pull it of. Not everyone can make a good Tragedy, and eve less pull can pull off a Comedy. In the Ancient years Comedies were about hot topics, and mostly a reflection of society through the eyes of the heroes. The Tragedies were the completely fictional stories. So, in a way, he's trying to make a "Comedy", but through the glasses of a Tragedy, but he ends up with a muddled movie.

I forgot you're from Greece right? Did they teach you that stuff in school? Must've been cool. I got into Mythology in late teens, not only Greek, my favorite is Sumerian/Babylonian/Akkadian from which Greek mythology could possibly derive.

I don't know how to explain this, I can't compare it directly to any epic I can remember, I has so many aspects that it's its own thing, it's got gods, titans and human champions, it's certainly not a comedy and I find it that it is very much a tragedy.

Eh, maybe he can stay as an assistant or just for the fight scenes, but I in no way want him as the guy behind the camera when JL starts rolling. He's got a set vision, and that's cool, but he doesn't respect the established character. He treats them like pieces of clay that are his to play with...

And that's ok, they are his to play with, as are ours, except we're not making the movies

 

[GasparZizou]

he is not so sad anymore

Good, he's probably the only one unharmed from the critics reception, he should be good and I can't wait for his movie.

I'm assuming his sad video already was posted that video is a damn masterpiece.

I'm worried about Snyder though, he took the news pretty harshly.

 

[Victοr]

I forgot you're from Greece right? Did they teach you that stuff in school? Must've been cool. I got into Mythology in late teens, not only Greek, my favorite is Sumerian/Babylonian/Akkadian from which Greek mythology could possibly derive.

I don't know how to explain this, I can't compare it directly to any epic I can remember, I has so many aspects that it's its own thing, it's got gods, titans and human champions, it's certainly not a comedy and I find it that it is very much a tragedy.

Yeah, we have Ancient Greek as a course for 6 years. Most is retreads, but you learn something new every year. But I go to plays in the still remaining ancient theatres (Dion, Epidaurus), somewhat regularly, so I try to stay in touch. I've not touched on other mythologies due to time constraints, but I am interested in the Egyptian one.

I'm not saying he needs to go and adapt a certain "epic", but if he's taking so much inspiration from such stories, maybe he should try harder and not simply be content with an "okay" job. The critics have spoken and the audience as well. It's at 7,6/10 at IMDB, and at 74% at RottenTomatoes. I get not taking the critics into account, but even the audience doesn't "like" this very much. And it's only been 3 days or so from from release date...

It's just that the League always had the Pantheon aspect built-in, and with Wonder Woman in the mix, they're going for a more "Gods of Olympus" feel than the "Epic of Gilgamesh", so I'm "judging" this based on what I know. I don't expect to a Tragedy on Oedipus's level or Elektra's, or "The Trojan's", but I'm expecting something that'll make me go "this is the League all right".

And that's ok, they are his to play with, as are ours, except we're not making the movies

Yeah, bu-but... I don't like his vi-vision...

 

[GasparZizou]

Yeah, we have Ancient Greek as a course for 6 years. Most is retreads, but you learn something new every year. But I go to plays in the still remaining ancient theatres (Dion, Epidaurus), somewhat regularly, so I try to stay in touch. I've not touched on other mythologies due to time constraints, but I am interested in the Egyptian one.

Oh man that must be cool as ****, I wish they taught us about Mythology in school, we got a little but so little, we didn't even get proper Aztec/Mayan mythology and that **** is awesome too.

I'm not saying he needs to go and adapt a certain "epic", but if he's taking so much inspiration from such stories, maybe he should try harder and not simply be content with an "okay" job. The critics have spoken and the audience as well. It's at 7,6/10 at IMDB, and at 74% at RottenTomatoes. I get not taking the critics into account, but even the audience doesn't "like" this very much. And it's only been 3 days or so from from release date...

Well it was Terrio who said it, not Snyder, and Terrio is taking specific aspects of mythological characters, from greek mythology to be exact, and infused them into the characters.

It's just that the League always had the Pantheon aspect built-in, and with Wonder Woman in the mix, they're going for a more "Gods of Olympus" feel than the "Epic of Gilgamesh", so I'm "judging" this based on what I know. I don't expect to a Tragedy on Oedipus's level or Elektra's, or "The Trojan's", but I'm expecting something that'll make me go "this is the League all right".

Yeah, bu-but... I don't like his vi-vision...

Man, tough for you then, cause I don't think he's going anywhere, or I hope he's not sorry to hear that.

But hey, I'm sure they'll reboot it eventually, someone will come along to make the perfect Superman movie, someone who understands Supes much much better than Snyder like you and me do, I'm waiting for that too, but in the meantime, I've decided to enjoy the ride.

 

[ironwez20]

So this movie was ok. Just ok. It didn't feel like a batman v superman movie and more like a "is he good or bad movie" idk but anyway it was just ok to me. Doomsday was wasted IMO and lex luthors motivations were weird. How on earth does he know "he" is coming?

 

[SNIKT1950]

So this movie was ok. Just ok. It didn't feel like a batman v superman movie and more like a "is he good or bad movie" idk but anyway it was just ok to me. Doomsday was wasted IMO and lex luthors motivations were weird. How on earth does he know "he" is coming?

Either he learned it from the crashed ship's files or Darkseid got in touch with him.