Me too, how bad is ebay and paypal?
Ok. I'm surprised anyone wants to know...here goes. This is gonna be a long post I think. Fair warning....
So I had a comic that was going up in value like it was nobody's business. It's reached car values. And I had two. So I put it up for auction on eBay and after a week long auction it went for a big amount of money. I was happy. The person paid and I put it in the mail within hours of the auction close. Sent out the tracking and waited. A day later, a Sunday no less, (this was awhile back and things have changed a bit but the same basics apply) I got a notice from paypal saying a claim was opened. I was a bit shocked. But sent along the tracking number and a photo of the receipt.
I then wrote the buyer with a nicely worded, what the hell? He said he just got nervous and wanted to cover his bases. Felt shady but I figured I was covered. So Monday was a holiday, Tuesday the packaged arrived. I got another message from paypal saying a claim was to be escalated for non receipt of goods. Buyer told paypal the box was empty. Well I had taken the precaution to call the post office (the city it was sent ended up being where my sister in law lived, and worked for the post office. She had asked the post master to have the buyer open the package there. He had a PO box which is the only reason I called. Thank god for me. Otherwise I'd have had another issue to deal with. Anyway...the post office had security camera so it was recorded. With the comic in his hand right out the box. But they couldn't just share it with me unless the police where involved.
Well after I talked to paypal and told them the post office had video of him opening the box and I was gonna get it (when I have communication via PayPal case screen both parties see what's said by the other). Well within a couple hours I got another notice from PayPal. I figured my bluff about getting the tape(would have been s mess to get the cops in at that point so it wasn't a sure thing) worked and he was closing the case or they ruled in my favor. Nope. He adjusted his claim to counterfeit goods. Said he clicked the wrong button before. Even though he not only clicked not rx button but his dumbarse wrote in the statement box "item not in box, box full of newspaper". Idiot. Well with all that crap, the fact he filed a claim a day after I shipped, (and no mail on Sunday) and the change and all that I would be ok and win. Add to that the comic was CGC with a sealed case and barcode. No way I lose. Worst I get the comic back. Well, turns out paypals counterfeit policy is CRAZY. The normal customer service reps make a call if they believe it is or isn't counterfeit, based on who knows what. If they decided it's counterfiet, over the phone based on one photo from the buyer and the listing image the policy is that the buyer is to destroy the product, provide photo evidence it's destroyed, and they get refunded....!?@?@!? Well They made a call over night. It was counterfiet. The photo the buyer provided...was of a completly different comic then I sent. Not in a CGC case. He provided a photo within ten minutes of a pile of ashes. They ruled in his favor. I found out when I got up in the morning. Filed an appeal. But because the buyer already "destroyed" the comic I lost. They offered a refund of the selling fees. I was livid. From the following day on they refused to communicate further. I wrote letters, emails, called. Finally I hired a lawyer. Figured I was never going to win but they needed to at least explain what the hell happened and how they made this call. After a couple of years of back and forth and subpoenas and the fbi and two police departments involved I had at least gotten an idea how they did things (and more...I have aroubd 40 banker boxes of paperwork and policy and memos from them. They supplied everything hoping we wouldn't find the two papers that mattered most)turns out the person who worked the claims for counterfiet had no idea what she was doing. In fact no one on the whole department had any actual training. But specific to my case, she had no idea what a comic was. Thought CGC was the title of the book (it was a not lol). She saw the photo the buyer sent didn't match the listing (shocker lol) and that was enough. She wrote in an email to her supervisor when I first called that first morning...that because the photo didn't look the same and because it had to be fake because a comic is only a few dollars at the store. She didn't even take into account the complaint before it could have been delivered, (which they have now changed to like 3 weeks last I heard) or the fact he changed his story a few times.
So after a few years we where no where with the courts. Jurisdiction and civil versus criminal and delays and a bunch of **** to stall and other legal crap. Case was thrown out twice. Jurisdiction issues. Then one time it was dismissed because paypal didn't actually take any action. And so on. Tried to sue the buyer, he said he just did what paypal told him to. Lost that case too. Lol
Anyway, after a few years I was about to give up legally. Was just thinking about going and beating the shot out of the guy and let it go after. Be worth a few days in jail. But I got lucky. For the first time in the case...lol
The guy got comfortable and listed the comic for sale online. I still collect, well not as much as before. Got a bit jaded. Lol but still time to time. Anyway, I saw the listing. The guy used a different name and fake address. But he wasn't even smart enough to get the book regraded or at least hide the bar code in photos. So I checked it against my photos and receipts I still had from CGC and it matched. Called my lawyer and the local police. Whom I'd been in contact with during most this time. They had wanted to prosecute the guy but the DA didn't think he could win. Waste of tax payer money he said. Anyway...the cops got a warrant that day and went to the guys house. He said the listing wasn't his...but rhe cops made him think they had traced the IP(which they could have eventually I guess). He finally caved and turned over the comic. They arrested him that day. He ended up with a suspended sentence and ten years of probation and the only reason he got a suspended sentence was so he could work, to pay back ALL my legal fees. Dip****. I eventually got the book back. Took nearly six years. And if they guy hadn't been such a tool I would have never gotten anything.
While this was going on I started a blog about ebay and PayPal horror storys(my lawyer paid to keep it up so he could get clients lol which I put in the title page description). I heard so many horror stories. And I still get calls from people for advise and my lawyer even calls for info time to time. I read every brief and legal paperwork and anything in the courts to try and learn what I could do. And then read every paper in those boxes they sent. And I kept it all. Lol I had to go over it myself because I couldn't afford to pay a JP to do it for four years. Lol
So yea, there's all kinds of ways they can screw you over. It's changed a lot in the last couple years, but not so much as to make it even hard to scam. So don't think your covered or safe because you use paypal.
I'm sure I missed a few (thousand) things in the story. Been awhile, and it was spread over years) but I hope it is at least coherent. My phone likes to autocorrect incessantly and I don't read as I type like I should so forgive the grammar and spelling.
I've got hundreds of stories like this from my old blog(which I may bring back. My lawyer moved firms so they stopped paying for the blog awhile back).
