Official Sideshow Crimson Guards!

[thenammagazine]

Re: Offical Sideshow Crimson Guards!

This selective logic has always baffled me. You, Nam, and The Josh all seem to be of the same mind with this, and strangely only for GI Joe.

If it wasn't selective logic then you'd be demanding Bieber hair on Luke Skywalker and Platoon's Chris Taylor to come with a KRISS and iphone. Very strange...

We all understood going in that Sideshow would be "modernizing" the Joes. But somehow, to the spoiled princesses, this is a magically new concept? Look at EF. Probably among the staunchest of the Joe purists here and he doesn't seem to be throwing hissyfits.

As for Star Wars, it's apples and oranges and actually, I've gone on record about consistency and the importance of it for a continuing line. I'm annoyed that Duke and Flint will look dated now. But you're being entirely eccentric when you take 2 figures that will now have dated sculpts and lumping them into a comparison of Sideshow's Buck-based Jedi's (which date back near a decade and thousands of dollars worth of investment) to the proposed new Pro-based ones with light-up sabers and the like.

If Sideshow were releasing all their OT figures in Clone Wars style, you'd have a better argument. They aren't.

 

[The Josh]

Re: Offical Sideshow Crimson Guards!

We all understood going in that Sideshow would be "modernizing" the Joes. But somehow, to the spoiled princesses, this is a magically new concept? Look at EF. Probably among the staunchest of the Joe purists here and he doesn't seem to be throwing hissyfits.

As for Star Wars, it's apples and oranges and actually, I've gone on record about consistency and the importance of it for a continuing line. I'm annoyed that Duke and Flint will look dated now. But you're being entirely eccentric when you take 2 figures that will now have dated sculpts and lumping them into a comparison of Sideshow's Buck-based Jedi's (which date back near a decade and thousands of dollars worth of investment) to the proposed new Pro-based ones with light-up sabers and the like.

If Sideshow were releasing all their OT figures in Clone Wars style, you'd have a better argument. They aren't.

 

[ProgMatinee]

Re: Offical Sideshow Crimson Guards!

To some extent you have to allow for certain fleshing out of details when you convert something from either 3 3/4" to 12" or from comic and cartoon to 3 dimensions. Those native formats don't allow for tons of detail. Otherwise this is what you get in 12" if you want a literal translation from a toy to a 12".

Taking from live action to 12" doesn't require the same amount of artist interpretation.

Now once you give permission for artist interpretation you are opening up to an inherent risk of not agreeing with the artist's taste. Not being happy with a decision will happen from time to time.

 

[onethousandmasks]

Re: Offical Sideshow Crimson Guards!

Talking about consistency. GI Joe line has none. You have a cloth masked SE, then the rest of the masked guys are all sculpted. Then you have guys that looks 90% like the 3/4 counter parts with slight modernization (SS, Cobra Trooper/Officer, Hawk, Cobra Viper), then you jave DD looking guys (CC, SE), you also have real world (Dusty), made up looks (FF), and made up altogether (Cobra Sniper). I think if they would just stick to just one look, then we would know what or what not to expect.

 

[Coheteboy]

Re: Offical Sideshow Crimson Guards!

We all understood going in that Sideshow would be "modernizing" the Joes. But somehow, to the spoiled princesses, this is a magically new concept? Look at EF. Probably among the staunchest of the Joe purists here and he doesn't seem to be throwing hissyfits.

Really mature, thanks for calling me a spoiled princess. Now go fetch me my crown, peasant.

Now once you give permission for artist interpretation you are opening up to an inherent risk of not agreeing with the artist's taste. Not being happy with a decision will happen from time to time.

I read your last sentence as if you were C-3PO. lol

And you're right. Artist interpretation isn't going to win every time and I don't expect it to. Nor am I arguing that these figures don't remind me of who they're supposed to be... BUT... it is just an artists interpretation. I somehow take the original cartoon as a sort of canon of how a character looks and acts with this property (I can't help that growing up with the toon) and I especially have a liking to the original Crimson Guards. While Sideshow is releasing Crimson Guards, they've taken more artistic liberties than I would have preferred with the helmet design. If someone (not you particularly) looks at it saying "Sideshow nailed it!" then that person is blind and may never understand my viewpoint.

With Firefly, I was upset that he was changed that much, but it's actually more believable to have that character wear an assortment of various clothing from mission to mission so I relaxed with that one. The Crimson Guards are iconic in their own way and I had wanted to have these properly represented in my collection for a long time. I'll wait longer.


So rest assured I won't be in this forum every release with this same argument. It's the Crimson Guard I really wanted to be perfect. And by perfect, I mean as close to classic as possible. It's frustrating because they're so close but not.

 

[Coheteboy]

Re: Offical Sideshow Crimson Guards!

Talking about consistency. GI Joe line has none. You have a cloth masked SE, then the rest of the masked guys are all sculpted. Then you have guys that looks 90% like the 3/4 counter parts with slight modernization (SS, Cobra Trooper/Officer, Hawk, Cobra Viper), then you jave DD looking guys (CC, SE), you also have real world (Dusty), made up looks (FF), and made up altogether (Cobra Sniper). I think if they would just stick to just one look, then we would know what or what not to expect.

That's a very good point. They don't seem to have any real guidelines on when to do something different and when to stay true to the original character. And even when they stay pretty close (Duke, Dusty, Flint, Hawk), they deliver a head sculpt that I'm not a fan of.

 

[ProgMatinee]

Re: Offical Sideshow Crimson Guards!

I think if they would just stick to just one look, then we would know what or what not to expect.

Is that a good thing? Seriously, part of this line depends on a certain..."how will they approach him" aspect. There must be room for creative license on some of the figures.

 

[Khev]

Re: Offical Sideshow Crimson Guards!

Otherwise this is what you get in 12" if you want a literal translation from a toy to a 12".

Nobody that I'm aware of has asked for the 12 inch figures to be jumbo recreations of the 3.75 inch toys. Pretty much everyone in the "classic design" camp goes by the vintage card art, not the tiny plastic toy.

 

[ProgMatinee]

Re: Offical Sideshow Crimson Guards!

Nobody that I'm aware of has asked for the 12 inch figures to be jumbo recreations of the 3.75 inch toys. Pretty much everyone in the "classic design" camp goes by the vintage card art, not the tiny plastic toy.

I know, it was a exaggeration to make a point, but even still, the card art only has so much detail. You can't turn a 2D drawing with minimal detailing into a 3D somewhat realistic item without taking some liberties.

On one spectrum you get huge liberties like Firefly. On another end you get maybe some additional pockets or ammo belts or an updated backpack or different type of binocs for Duke.

Where is the line drawn for what is an acceptable liberty and an unacceptable liberty? Individual taste.

It will be interesting to see the success of this item. I think its going to sell well just as Firefly seemed to have sold well.

 

[DinoDB1975]

Re: Offical Sideshow Crimson Guards!

This selective logic has always baffled me. You, Nam, and The Josh all seem to be of the same mind with this, and strangely only for GI Joe.

If it wasn't selective logic then you'd be demanding Bieber hair on Luke Skywalker and Platoon's Chris Taylor to come with a KRISS and iphone. Very strange...

I think you may have confused me with someone else, Khev. I've always been in accord with the updating / modernizing of the Joe Line...and this is the only 1/6 line from Sideshow that I collect. I pick up Hot Toys figures as well, but I'm not nearly as invested (for lack of a better word) in them as I am with the Joe line.

Well I'm sure you've all had more than enough of me raining on your parade.

I think I've been holding on to a fool's hope that SSC would have a little more reverence for the original designs. Enjoy your figures guys, there's no denying the quality, that's for sure.

Khev, as Josh said, you're not raining on our parade. When I joined back in 4/09, I was happy to see a thread of like-minded Joe fans who's knowledge of the comic and cartoon were similar to mine. You were one of the biggest defender's of the Joe line, and when Firefly's pics were released, it seemed like the only ones defending him were you, me, and maybe Josh (my apologies if I forgot anyone). Since then (perhaps it was with Dusty), it seems you've taken a step back from Sideshow's line. I understand that you want them to be more faithful to the RAH line (specifically, in your words, the "card art"), but I know how much joy each subsequent Joe release gives me, and it's sort of disappointing that you (with the Duke avatar with your face on it) do't get the same feeling as the majority of us do.

Talking about consistency. GI Joe line has none. You have a cloth masked SE, then the rest of the masked guys are all sculpted. Then you have guys that looks 90% like the 3/4 counter parts with slight modernization (SS, Cobra Trooper/Officer, Hawk, Cobra Viper), then you jave DD looking guys (CC, SE), you also have real world (Dusty), made up looks (FF), and made up altogether (Cobra Sniper). I think if they would just stick to just one look, then we would know what or what not to expect.

Well, if that one thread that came out after SDCC is to be believed, V1 Snake Eyes will rectify this. It's been alleged that a sculpted V2 head will come with the V1 figure to allow uniformity.

 

[ProgMatinee]

Re: Offical Sideshow Crimson Guards!

I think you have to allow for lessons learned when talking about uniformity. SE was the first figure after all. Should we have held SSC back from making upgrades to the prometheus just because it would no longer be uniform with the others?

 

[Khev]

Re: Offical Sideshow Crimson Guards!

I think you may have confused me with someone else, Khev.

Oops, my mistake, carry on then!

But even if you don't collect SW I hope you can appreciate that I wouldn't want a Luke Skywalker (or animated SW character) to be "modernized" with Justin Bieber hair or different shaped helmets and whatnot. Its exactly the same with Joes for me.

it's sort of disappointing that you (with the Duke avatar with your face on it) do't get the same feeling as the majority of us do.

I hear you, and believe me, that's why I don't want to be the party pooper if you guys are still all into it. With each new SSC Joe release I kind of hope to get sucked back in so the jury isn't out permanently.

And I have been one of the few guys defending the Crimson Guard ironically enough.

 

[onethousandmasks]

Re: Offical Sideshow Crimson Guards!

I think you have to allow for lessons learned when talking about uniformity. SE was the first figure after all. Should we have held SSC back from making upgrades to the prometheus just because it would no longer be uniform with the others?

That is a whole different point all together. We are talking about the look of a specific character. The body is something else entirely. That was achange that carried across other lines.

 

[onethousandmasks]

Re: Offical Sideshow Crimson Guards!

Is that a good thing? Seriously, part of this line depends on a certain..."how will they approach him" aspect. There must be room for creative license on some of the figures.

To me, yes its good thing. I dont care for the little surprises they throw at us. You might like it, I don't. Remember the whole thing with FF, when they showed the concept design, which was tons better from what we got.

 

[ProgMatinee]

Re: Offical Sideshow Crimson Guards!

That is a whole different point all together. We are talking about the look of a specific character. The body is something else entirely. That was achange that carried across other lines.

Not really. Rock N Roll gets specially made forearms that show more definition. Duke and Flint got only slight upgraded arms.

Recent figures like Viper and CG are getting special boots that utilize a ball joint and swappable heels, older figures don't get that benefit. Should they can the upgrade?

 

[onethousandmasks]

Re: Offical Sideshow Crimson Guards!

Not really. Rock N Roll gets specially made forearms that show more definition. Duke and Flint got only slight upgraded arms.

Recent figures like Viper and CG are getting special boots that utilize a ball joint and swappable heels, older figures don't get that benefit. Should they can the upgrade?

But what does that have to do with a specific character's look? They are changing something that will used in other lines or by other characters. The ball joint heels is a no brainer for poseability, HT started using that last year with Ezio.
Those forearm are not specific to RnR. They wil be used on other figures. I think Zartan has them.

 

[ProgMatinee]

Re: Offical Sideshow Crimson Guards!

SE's mask was a flawed decision to use fabric. They later decided it should have been plastic. Just like not giving Flint or Duke better looking arms. They've decided to rectify it going forward.

They made the mistakes. Can't undo that. It would be stupid to continue to make the same mistakes just to be consistently making mistakes.

 

[onethousandmasks]

Re: Offical Sideshow Crimson Guards!

SE's mask was a flawed decision to use fabric. They later decided it should have been plastic. Just like not giving Flint or Duke better looking arms. They've decided to rectify it going forward.

They made the mistakes. Can't undo that. It would be stupid to continue to make the same mistakes just to be consistently making mistakes.

I give them that, SE was their first figure, my bad. I know mistakes will be made while trying something new(Stupid ratched knees). And I understand moving forward, but how is the idea of using the original 3/4 design on some, DD on others and creating a new look for others still, moving forward. When I say inconsistency, I meant what they represent, Storm Shadow looks close to the original 3/4, Firefly opposite end. As someone said earlier (Im not sure if its accurate or not) SS claimed they were not going to use original designs, yet they did.

 

[Coheteboy]

Re: Offical Sideshow Crimson Guards!

SE's mask was a flawed decision to use fabric. They later decided it should have been plastic. Just like not giving Flint or Duke better looking arms. They've decided to rectify it going forward.

They made the mistakes. Can't undo that. It would be stupid to continue to make the same mistakes just to be consistently making mistakes.

I think the earlier discussion of taste vs execution can apply to Snake Eyes perhaps. Since he's suited up from head to toe, nobody was going to argue against the fabric suit. It was the execution of it that was flawed.

Looking at Hot Toys recent Spider-Man, it's certainly possible to create a Snake-Eyes that looks good. With G.I.Joe, I think I would prefer fabric masks and hoods to balance the overall look but I also understand the difficulties and challenges that would place on delivering a quality product.

 

[The Josh]

Re: Offical Sideshow Crimson Guards!

They've never said they would not use the original designs but they would use those as a base along with modernization to the entire line.