Hot Toys- Batman Begins:Batman Demon & Scarecrow spec and pics

[haytil]

I think patience will pay off. I just wish the "competition", the bidders we bid against in the auction would see it this way though. Go into the auction with your maximum bid in mind and bid, preferably at the last second. If you lose, you lose, if you win, you win. There is PLENTY to go around. I'm just getting sick of seeing the same _____*r (325) or a***h (40) bidding as soon as they see the auction is up, then increasing it each day with small amounts, increasing the demand and competition for items THEY want.

Yeah, that doesn't make much sense. But that's why I haven't even bothered to bid on these yet. I figure the longer I wait, the more likely it is that _____*r (325) or a***h (40) will end up with the figures they want (most likely paying more than they had to). And when they do, hopefully that means they won't be bidding on any more in the future.

Same sort of thing with the Buy It Now folks. Someone did a "Buy It Now" for more than $500 a few days ago. The average price is just above $400 at this point, so there was no reason for them to do that. When they do buy it for $500, it just encourages sellers to keep the price jacked up.

But on the other hand, once they've bought it for that inflated price, they'll probably no longer be "competition."

Well I just found out something horrible and distasteful. I bid on a few sets that were relatively in the price range I'm seeking ($350-$399 shipped).

I waited until the last second, like I usually do to snipe bid. TWO bidders somehow managed to bid while I was watching at the 30 second mark. I see the price go out of my range, refresh to see what it ends for ONLY to see the price go back down.

Low and behold, there are shill bidders in most of the auctions. I went back and looked at previous auctions, mostly studiosunnies and there seems to be alteast two people that bid to see what the highest bidder has bid, only to retract their bid seconds later and put in a total right under the top amount.

They're basically bidding to find the top price, then pulling out and rebidding to keep it right under the top bidder. That way, they don't win and the auction goes for as high as it possibly can go.

That sucks. You should report it to Ebay, if you can.

What a ____ing dirty tactic and what's worse, this may very well be the sellers or friends of the sellers.

They undoubtedly are. No reason to do that and screw a stranger, unless you stand to profit from it yourself.

 

[Hydeous]

quoted for the truth

Doesn't surprise me. Seems like guys in Hong Kong are more inclined, in general, to disregard eBay rules than others. And technically, they aren't forcing people to do anything they don't want to (if you bid that high, presumably, you are willing to pay that much), but they are contributing to the artificial inflation in the price of these figures that we've been seeing. Only when folks decide not to just give HK sellers what they are asking are we gonna see prices really drop. But I think, slowly, that this has to happen. You can only fool the market for so long.

 

[karamazov80]

Yes. Price on HT figs always go down in the short-term. They do go rise again, even more, but that takes several months after they're widely available.

These aren't being made widely available, so the trend is being extended in length and slowed down. But the price has consistently fallen over the last month.

Another reason I have some confidence that this set won't be one of those $300+ per figure Hot Toys figures in the long run is the example of Two Face. Yeah, that figure was probably over-produced (possibly more than 4000, but who knows?), but ultimately, it just wasn't as popular as figures like Joker and Batman. And so now, you can get that figure for $80 or less if you look around.

I think both these new figures are analogous to Two Face. They aren't essential characters, but a back-up villain and minor Batman variant that most collectors of Hot Toys could probably take or leave. Scarecrow is more desirable than Bat-Demon, but probably not that much more popular. So, I just am not feeling the pressure to buy these out of fear that they're gonna jump in price to $500 each anytime soon. I'm antsy because I really want this figure, but that's the only reason I'm considering buying sooner rather than later.

 

[Chigger58]

Well I just found out something horrible and distasteful. I bid on a few sets that were relatively in the price range I'm seeking ($350-$399 shipped).

I waited until the last second, like I usually do to snipe bid. TWO bidders somehow managed to bid while I was watching at the 30 second mark. I see the price go out of my range, refresh to see what it ends for ONLY to see the price go back down.

Low and behold, there are shill bidders in most of the auctions. I went back and looked at previous auctions, mostly studiosunnies and there seems to be alteast two people that bid to see what the highest bidder has bid, only to retract their bid seconds later and put in a total right under the top amount.

They're basically bidding to find the top price, then pulling out and rebidding to keep it right under the top bidder. That way, they don't win and the auction goes for as high as it possibly can go.

What a ____ing dirty tactic and what's worse, this may very well be the sellers or friends of the sellers.

Buyer beware indeed.

Doesn't surprise me. Seems like guys in Hong Kong are more inclined, in general, to disregard eBay rules than others. And technically, they aren't forcing people to do anything they don't want to (if you bid that high, presumably, you are willing to pay that much), but they are contributing to the artificial inflation in the price of these figures that we've been seeing. Only when folks decide not to just give HK sellers what they are asking are we gonna see prices really drop. But I think, slowly, that this has to happen. You can only fool the market for so long.

This is all really "encouraging" to read!

I don't know if anyone else remembers this thread or post but overall it was this "freak" that was talking about these shoddy practices Ebay sellers were using to jack up prices on their products.

I believe the case he was talking about it was of course pertaining to figures. It had to do with them having friends or other sellers using "Buy it now"'s at a jacked up price so that they could attempt to control what the going price for a figure was. Tag teaming each others auctions they could inflate the prices, obviously never exhange product, and then have someone think after looking at the completed listings that a figure should go for that dollar amount.

Me, personally, I don't buy in to all these conspiracy theories a lot of the time. However, the guys post got stored away in my head and as I continued to watch some auctions on Ebay I noticed it could be happening just as the guy had stated.

Now again, I'm not 100% saying it's happening, but I'm also not some ignorant collector that is too dumb to think it couldn't be happening. I know there are some great sellers to work with on Ebay and I've had some great experiences with what I think are honest people. I've also sold items to people for $.99 when they should have gone for more. A deal is a deal, and it is what it is, that's the way I look at it.

As many people have stated, when it comes to Ebay, the best practices are to probably snipe (so that sellers can't bid you up for the duration of the auction) and to have a set price in mind that you are comfortable paying.

I know DiFab and Karamazov that you guys know all this stuff, just building off your recent experience(s), restating it for others, and chipping in my 2 cents. People are greedy, imagine that?!?

 

[aussieinnyc]

No one's gonna "miss out" on this, though. If something is 20-40% overpriced, I think it is worth discussing why. And I personally like speculating on price trends. But if you don't, post more pictures and thoughts while the rest of us bide out time. This thread could definitely use more detailed reviews of this guy.

Thats the bit I don't quite get though. on an item like this where for the bulk of us it's a secondary market purchase, there's no such thing as "overpriced". Either someone pays the asked for price or they don't.

 

[DiFabio]

Thats the bit I don't quite get though. on an item like this where for the bulk of us it's a secondary market purchase, there's no such thing as "overpriced". Either someone pays the asked for price or they don't.

Yes there is. "Overpriced" means more than what someone is willing to pay.

We're not paying the asked price because it's overpriced, or better yet, more than we are willing to pay (since people have their own "deals").

While I could throw down, $400, $500, $600, hell, maybe even a $1000 on this set, I don't want to. I know how the market works and it makes more sense to get it for the best price possible. Who wants to pay more than they want to on an item? I don't.

 

[haytil]

Yeah. Pick the price you want to pay (irrespective of "current market price"). Bid on the item, at that price, at the end.

That's the only way you can fight these guys. When other people don't follow this method, it means you'll be less likely to get your figure (or it'll take longer), because inflated Ebay prices will take longer to subside (if ever). But with this method, you'll never pay more than you want to, and that's what counts.

 

[vodoun]

Who wants to pay more than they want to on an item? I don't.

Those that have more money than sense?

 

[Seditionary]

I've just finished university and I need a job before I can get them realistically. When I do I'm sure the price will be more in the range for me anyways.

I have been reporting items with excessive shipping to ebay under the "report item" link. I must have reported 10 of these yesterday with shipping over 100 dollars. It only takes about 10 seconds to do. I doubt it will do any good though.

 

[DiFabio]

Yeah, I tried reporting them a few days ago for ____s and giggles, but, just as I figured ebay isn't doing anything about it.

Oh well, ebay's loss.

 

[neo]

 

[Tick-Tock]

Well I just found out something horrible and distasteful. I bid on a few sets that were relatively in the price range I'm seeking ($350-$399 shipped).

I waited until the last second, like I usually do to snipe bid. TWO bidders somehow managed to bid while I was watching at the 30 second mark. I see the price go out of my range, refresh to see what it ends for ONLY to see the price go back down.

Low and behold, there are shill bidders in most of the auctions. I went back and looked at previous auctions, mostly studiosunnies and there seems to be alteast two people that bid to see what the highest bidder has bid, only to retract their bid seconds later and put in a total right under the top amount.

They're basically bidding to find the top price, then pulling out and rebidding to keep it right under the top bidder. That way, they don't win and the auction goes for as high as it possibly can go.

What a ____ing dirty tactic and what's worse, this may very well be the sellers or friends of the sellers.

Buyer beware indeed.

That makes no sense. Why is it bad if they're bidding to find the top price and then bidding just under that? It would be cheating if they were doing this to find the top price and then bidding just a tiny bit over that, but what's the point of that tactic if they don't want to win? Doesn't raise the price for the seller and doesn't win the item for the buyer. I'm confused.

 

[karamazov80]

That makes no sense. Why is it bad if they're bidding to find the top price and then bidding just under that? It would be cheating if they were doing this to find the top price and then bidding just a tiny bit over that, but what's the point of that tactic if they don't want to win? Doesn't raise the price for the seller and doesn't win the item for the buyer. I'm confused.

Folks will bid more because they think others are bidding against them. If no one is actually bidding against them, then it is a manipulation of market forces. If they weren't doing this sort of thing, presumably, overall auction prices would be lower, which would signal to the market that the demand is lower than it appears now, which would lead to lower BINs and a more realistic understanding of what this figure is actually "worth."

Folks are still willing to pay what HK guys are asking for, but this is due to a lack of information regarding true supply coupled with the artificial manipulation DiFabio is talking about.

 

[haytil]

That makes no sense. Why is it bad if they're bidding to find the top price and then bidding just under that? It would be cheating if they were doing this to find the top price and then bidding just a tiny bit over that, but what's the point of that tactic if they don't want to win? Doesn't raise the price for the seller and doesn't win the item for the buyer. I'm confused.

What he's saying is that the seller is using another account to bid just under the real buyer's maximum bid. So the real buyer ends up paying more than he would have.

If another real buyer bids just over his maximum bid, that's fine (in fact, that's what automatically happens). But if the seller creates another account to bid over the real buyer's maximum bid and find out what it is, then retracts that fake bid and re-bids just under the real buyer's maximum bid, the real buyer ends up winning but at a higher price than he would have if it was just one seller and only real buyers.

 

[DiFabio]

That makes no sense. Why is it bad if they're bidding to find the top price and then bidding just under that? It would be cheating if they were doing this to find the top price and then bidding just a tiny bit over that, but what's the point of that tactic if they don't want to win? Doesn't raise the price for the seller and doesn't win the item for the buyer. I'm confused.

They're bidding and if they win they retract. When they retract, their bid is deleted then they bid again, a dollar less then what the highest bidder has put in.

This makes the highest bidder pay the most.

That's just wrong, anyway you look at it. Here's an example.

Tick-Tock, you put in $370 dollars as your maximum bid. The current bid is $300, but nobody can see that you put in $370.

I come in and bid with only a minute to go. I bid $400 dollars. I'm currently winning, you're losing. I can now see that you put in $370 as your maximum bid.

With 30 seconds to go, I quickly retract my bid. Now you are winning again. Your bid is $370 and the current bid is $300.

NOW, I've just retracted and I bid again, this time $368 or $369 for good measure.

I just made you pay $370 dollars because I KNEW that's what you put in. Had I not interfered, you would have gotten it for $300.

That. Is. Wrong.

What makes it WORSE is that the person doing this could be a friend of the seller, or THE SELLER with another account. It seems very likely considering a good bulk of these auctions have this problem occurring.

 

[CTO15]

Well I just found out something horrible and distasteful. I bid on a few sets that were relatively in the price range I'm seeking ($350-$399 shipped).

I waited until the last second, like I usually do to snipe bid. TWO bidders somehow managed to bid while I was watching at the 30 second mark. I see the price go out of my range, refresh to see what it ends for ONLY to see the price go back down.

Low and behold, there are shill bidders in most of the auctions. I went back and looked at previous auctions, mostly studiosunnies and there seems to be alteast two people that bid to see what the highest bidder has bid, only to retract their bid seconds later and put in a total right under the top amount.

They're basically bidding to find the top price, then pulling out and rebidding to keep it right under the top bidder. That way, they don't win and the auction goes for as high as it possibly can go.

What a ____ing dirty tactic and what's worse, this may very well be the sellers or friends of the sellers.

Buyer beware indeed.

same thing happen to me when I was bidding on a IM2 MK IV Led stand

I sniped an auction that was at $51 with my max of $60, raising the price to $55.

Sure enough, I get outbidded to $61 and the auction ended. Not 3 mins after the auction ended, I get an email from the seller/ebay for a 2nd chance offer of my original bid of $60.

 

[karamazov80]

$60 for a damn LED stand!!! Why?????????

 

[DiFabio]

Yep, and that was the seller who bid against you most likely. They were either too late in retracting or they do the second chance offer crap.

 

[Gates70]

same thing happen to me when I was bidding on a IM2 MK IV Led stand

I sniped an auction that was at $51 with my max of $60, raising the price to $55.

Sure enough, I get outbidded to $61 and the auction ended. Not 3 mins after the auction ended, I get an email from the seller/ebay for a 2nd chance offer of my original bid of $60.

A lot of shady stuff on EBay. That's why I stay away from bidding now. I just get stuff that's "Buy it now"

 

[azurepred]

same thing happen to me when I was bidding on a IM2 MK IV Led stand

I sniped an auction that was at $51 with my max of $60, raising the price to $55.

Sure enough, I get outbidded to $61 and the auction ended. Not 3 mins after the auction ended, I get an email from the seller/ebay for a 2nd chance offer of my original bid of $60.

anytime that happens, its pretty obvious whats going on. It happens a lot unfortunately