TERMINATOR SALVATION movie discussion

[jye4ever]

For those interested in B.O. Numbers, the T4 wrap up from Nikki Finke's DHD...

"Warner Bros' Terminator: Salvation is already weak-kneed. The McG-directed 4th in the franchise starring Batman's Christian Bale is running out of steam after making $14.8 million in domestic grosses both Friday and Saturday for a 3-day weekend of just $42M from 3,530 venues. That's lower even than Watchmen's non-holiday Fri-Sat-Sun opening. T4 already brought in $3M from its Wednesday midnight showings and $13.5M Thursday for what should be an underperforming $52M for the 4-day holiday and a cume of $62M for the 5 days. Even though my box office gurus were confident Museum 2 would wind up #1, T4 "is pretty disappointing as most pundits thought it was going to win the weekend, as did most if not all of the tracking services," a rival studio exec notes. Under and over age 25 males turned out, but the buzz turned rancid among fanboys who overwhelmingly didn't like the pic. (Top critics didn't either: there were only 33% positive reviews at Rotten Tomatoes). Warner Bros expected more, especially because T4 benefitted from worldwide awareness from that Christian Bale audio."

ALL that = LOL

 

[Morbach]

Personally, I loved the movie and look forward to the next one.

What I can't get over was the size of Helena Bonham Carter's bald head! It looked like a freakin' light bulb!

Eric

I saw that too and I also liked the movie

 

[IrishJedi]

For those interested in B.O. Numbers, the T4 wrap up from Nikki Finke's DHD...

"Warner Bros' Terminator: Salvation is already weak-kneed. The McG-directed 4th in the franchise starring Batman's Christian Bale is running out of steam after making $14.8 million in domestic grosses both Friday and Saturday for a 3-day weekend of just $42M from 3,530 venues. That's lower even than Watchmen's non-holiday Fri-Sat-Sun opening.

OUCH.

 

[jye4ever]

OUCH....

Bale should start shooting "Equalibriam 2, Hell Hath No Fury Like Someone Overdosed On Equalibriam" pretty soon.

Can't wait for the DP to mess up his lights on that movie as well.......

Oh well, at least Hot Toys did him well....

TDK 2 Batman will now be played by Ben Stiller.....

 

[pjam]

ALL that = LOL

It's not that funny.

Word of mouth is a powerful barometer, prolly the single most important factor in determining whether a Movie is a success. Financially and otherwise. There is good reason why this is sinking fast. And for the record, I am just about done with Bale, professionally. Dude has become a complete joyless bore.

 

[Matt S]

I mean, these B.O numbers are AWFUL for a huge, huge 'event' film like this......

 

[DarkArtist81]

I'm REALLY glad they didn't give us that original ending. Yeah, it would have been a shocker and bleak. But it would have utterly destroyed the license. Everybody is dead, WTF is the point?

 

[IrishJedi]

I'm REALLY glad they didn't give us that original ending. Yeah, it would have been a shocker and bleak. But it would have utterly destroyed the license. Everybody is dead, WTF is the point?

That is the point. The machines win. We lose. The self-fulfilling prophecy comes true... mankind has brought about his own destruction by playing God and creating sentient computers/machines. The End. THAT is thought-provoking Sci-Fi.

Besides, this film's box office performance might harm the potential future of the franchise anyway.

 

[EVILFACE]

The FX and sound were awesome, but thought the movie had a weak plot, if it even had a plot. How John gets his scar was kewl.

So in this timeline, Skynet is aware of John Connor before he becomes the eader?

Arnold T-800 was pretty kewl of what we saw of him and worth seeing the movie alone for.

Oh and I canceled my HT Connor figure

 

[pjam]

Sam emerged as a STAR IMO, and for me, was the only reason to see this. And who recommended Sam? JC, so there you go..

As far as chronology, we learned in T1 that Kyle fought in the 132nd under Perry from 2021-2027 I think. So Connor had taken out the grid, defeated the machines sometime after 2027 when they then sent Arnie back in time.

Didn't this take place in 2018?

 

[DarkArtist81]

That is the point. The machines win. We lose. The self-fulfilling prophecy comes true... mankind has brought about his own destruction by playing God and creating sentient computers/machines. The End. THAT is thought-provoking Sci-Fi.

Besides, this film's box office performance might harm the potential future of the franchise anyway.

No, I GET that. I understand it as a metaphor. But, it destroys the entire story. AND they were going to continue from there with "fake" Connor leading the resistance against the machines. It makes absolutely no sense at all and takes a huge steaming dump on the series as a whole.

Nobody would have given a crap about the story from that point on, you couldn't look forward to anything. Kyle never gets sent back, the connection to the older films is completely severed. John isn't even John anymore. And why would Marcus do that and then take his place? It's retarded.

ooohh...ahh... man gets his just desserts... It's bull^^^^.

That would work if this were the first film ever about this series, then I would APPLAUD that ending. But to do it to a long standing series and expect to be able to buy into another film later? Stupid.

 

[IrishJedi]

No, I GET that. I understand it as a metaphor. But, it destroys the entire story. AND they were going to continue from there with "fake" Connor leading the resistance against the machines.

That was just one ending. The really dark ending was him killing everyone after becoming a machine. No leading the Resistance. Just...blam! The End. That's it. But of course it was changed for two reasons: People obviously couldn't accept it, and it would for all intents and purposes end the franchise creatively (no more cash cow).

Which would also have been fine by me. Do we really need more of these movies now? Especially since it's obvious that the series has passed the point of diminishing returns, both in quality and box office.

 

[pjam]

No, I GET that. I understand it as a metaphor. But, it destroys the entire story. AND they were going to continue from there with "fake" Connor leading the resistance against the machines. It makes absolutely no sense at all and takes a huge steaming dump on the series as a whole.

That would work if this were the first film ever about this series, then I would APPLAUD that ending. But to do it to a long standing series and expect to be able to buy into another film later? Stupid.

Again, Kyle fought in the 132nd under Perry from 2021-2027 as I recall. So Connor had taken out the grid, defeated the machines sometime after 2027 when they then sent Arnie back in time.

Didn't this take place in 2018?

 

[IrishJedi]

Yeah, it does take place in 2018, which was a very odd choice.

 

[DarkArtist81]

That was just one ending. The really dark ending was him killing everyone after becoming a machine. No leading the Resistance. Just...blam! The End. That's it. But of course it was changed for two reasons: People obviously couldn't accept it, and it would for all intents and purposes end the franchise creatively (no more cash cow).

Which would also have been fine by me. Do we really need more of these movies now? Especially since it's obvious that the series has passed the point of diminishing returns, both in quality and box office.

It's still retarded. And I for one, and I know I am not alone, was looking forward to seeing the war play out. It's a major part of the series that was never touched, so I don't see the problem. If this were not the case, I would agree with you about them milking the franchise. But the fact that there is still legitimate story to be told, ending it like that would be stupid beyond belief and insulting to the fans who were looking forward to seeing that story.

That's kinda like if they just ended the new Trek with Earth being destroyed and the Enterprise going up in flames. Everyone dies. It's Creative, I will give you that. But you just ended a series and flipped off all the fans. Good job.

And yeah, Paul... the year was an odd choice. Unless they plan on jumping ahead in years somewhere in the story.

 

[MaulFan]

Do we really need more of these movies now?

If done right, yes. It can be argued that leaving John Connor as a myth in the future war is good story telling, but I'd like to actually see some movie depict the legend.

Again, Kyle fought in the 132nd under Perry from 2021-2027 as I recall. So Connor had taken out the grid, defeated the machines sometime after 2027 when they then sent Arnie back in time.

Didn't this take place in 2018?

You have to ignore all that stuff though, the whole war is skewed because of T2 and T3. The war starts in 2004 now, not 1997. Perry may have died in a car accident or something between 1997 and 2004.

The only things that hold true of the original timeline at the moment are John Connor being a key part of the resistance, and Kyle Reese being a member.

Listening to Kyle's future war story early on in T1, it sounded like a Nazi thing where Skynet rounded up all remaining humans not killed in the nuclear attacks, and used them for labor and then slaughter and it sounded like Connor was the one who had the balls to take a stance and fight back, break out and start a war.

The new timeline, Connor's trained as a soldier from birth practically and is poised from the start of the war with military men at his disposal.

When T3 made judgement day innevitable, it opened a whole new way for events to unfold. The future is now whatever new writers dictate. As much as we may want to see the future Kyle told us about, I think we may see the world that way, but actual events may not be dead match and don't have to be.

 

[Starkiller]

That is the point. The machines win. We lose. The self-fulfilling prophecy comes true... mankind has brought about his own destruction by playing God and creating sentient computers/machines. The End. THAT is thought-provoking Sci-Fi.

Besides, this film's box office performance might harm the potential future of the franchise anyway.

We fulfill the prophecy that we bring about our destruction? Seriously dude? Are you making up themes for terminator?

It's simply about machines being sent back in time to protect the leader of the resistance. It was never about mankind playing God. The one dude that makes it possible to the win against the machines must stay alive, and mankind must win. That is not thought provoking sci-fi, that is cliche. Why don't we just make John wake up in a gel like goo with tubes attached to him and he finds out he's living in the matrix?

Your weaving your own thoughts and what you think the themes of terminator are, rather than what it really is. John Connor may eventually die...but the human race has to win eventually. Are compassion is what sets us apart from them, we are not cold and calculating. Connor says so himself, he act like them we will lose. So eventually sooner or later we will outsmart skynet. But the idea of the machines have to win to show us that we brought on our destruction, even after they humans realized that after doomsday would be pointless.

 

[MaulFan]

It's simply about machines being sent back in time to protect the leader of the resistance. It was never about mankind playing God.

I'm with Irish on the idea. There's a dialogue in T2 that even supports the notion.

John- We're not gonna make it are we? People I mean.
T-800- It's in your nature to destroy yourselves.

T1 was primarily just a fun story, but T2 explored the notion of understanding and acceptance and doing away with the emotions and ideas that cause Skynet and Judgement day to be. The close of T2 furthers it, "If a machine, a Terminator can learn the value of human life, maybe we can too."

I've always felt T2 particularly was sending a message that such a future is innevitably our fate at some point, that we can either change our ways and live a good life, or stay on the path we're on and be irradicated from the planet.

Irish's concept is the ultimate closure of that notion, there is no hope, if you don't change your path now, you will eventually cease to exist. Is it good for films and all, no, done too soon it kills the fun of having more, but in the concept of the Terminator series future, it is a fitting conclusion to it all. If you don't change what fuels Judgement Day, you will all perish.

Look at our world, I worry sometimes how close we may be to some of these powers in the world with nukes and bio warfare and all just saying ^^^^ it, ^^^^ everybody, launch it all, who gives a ^^^^ and then it's game over.

 

[jye4ever]

I'm with Irish on the idea. There's a dialogue in T2 that even supports the notion.

John- We're not gonna make it are we? People I mean.
T-800- It's in your nature to destroy yourselves.

T1 was primarily just a fun story, but T2 explored the notion of understanding and acceptance and doing away with the emotions and ideas that cause Skynet and Judgement day to be. The close of T2 furthers it, "If a machine, a Terminator can learn the value of human life, maybe we can too."

I've always felt T2 particularly was sending a message that such a future is innevitably our fate at some point, that we can either change our ways and live a good life, or stay on the path we're on and be irradicated from the planet.

Irish's concept is the ultimate closure of that notion, there is no hope, if you don't change your path now, you will eventually cease to exist. Is it good for films and all, no, done too soon it kills the fun of having more, but in the concept of the Terminator series future, it is a fitting conclusion to it all. If you don't change what fuels Judgement Day, you will all perish.

Look at our world, I worry sometimes how close we may be to some of these powers in the world with nukes and bio warfare and all just saying ^^^^ it, ^^^^ everybody, launch it all, who gives a ^^^^ and then it's game over.

I agree but I would also like to add that it wasn't just about humans being destructive to one another but also about our increasing dependence on technology where there's even a need for self learning computers to exist and for them to eventually have feelings....like wtf.....weeeee.....

Or was that AI.....lol

Can't get a real girl....no worries....here's your VR 3D chick...or robot chick...

Japan is rapidly approaching having little robot puppies that pee for their owners and bark for robot food....

Nah, seriously, I think part of the message was technology based as well as human intolerance for each other....

You know, like you speak bad about my movie franchise, you're a dead man type of thing...

 

[Eli26]

That was just one ending. The really dark ending was him killing everyone after becoming a machine. No leading the Resistance. Just...blam! The End. That's it. But of course it was changed for two reasons: People obviously couldn't accept it, and it would for all intents and purposes end the franchise creatively (no more cash cow).

Which would also have been fine by me. Do we really need more of these movies now? Especially since it's obvious that the series has passed the point of diminishing returns, both in quality and box office.

Oh good God that signature! It speaks to me! Yes, I'll have two today!