TERMINATOR SALVATION movie discussion

[Sachiel]

Um, the idea of Humans Vs. Machines have been around since we invented the computer. So....please, neither are rip offs of each other.

Thank you.

I do like that original ending - having the leader of the resistance be a true cyborg (part human/part machine, rather than all machine like the Terminators) is a great ironic twist.

So do I, BUT Marcus was supposed to kill Kate, Star, Kyle, Blair, etc. after getting John's skin. Which makes it pretty ^^^^ing retarded.

If they had it so it's just John's skin transplanted onto Marcus, OK. Though there are other problems with that.

I hope they don't stick to what has already been said in the previous movies. Does John really have to send Kyle back? And then a Terminator? Things were already changing throughout the previous films.

Sure Marcus was something different, but they ruined that surprise and there wasn't anything really great there. Nothing you don't see coming.

 

[IrishJedi]

So do I, BUT Marcus was supposed to kill Kate, Star, Kyle, Blair, etc. after getting John's skin. Which makes it pretty ^^^^ing retarded.

Actually, I think that ending would have been ballsy as hell and a nice, dark, kick in the gut sci-fi climax. And that is all too rare these days.

Do we really need more TERMINATOR movies with these same characters anyway? Besides, the films themselves provide endless "reboot" opportunities with their time-travel and timeline paradox conceit. You could kill them off and bring them back somehow and it wouldn't be any less silly than what's already occurred.

One of the biggest problems these days is that most studio movies have absolutely no balls, particularly genre films. And now it seems audiences have been emasculated as well, because I'd venture to guess most fans would crap themselves over an ending that was a kick in the face like that. That's too bad.

 

[jye4ever]

Um, the idea of Humans Vs. Machines have been around since we invented the computer. So....please, neither are rip offs of each other.

Actually, that idea has been around before we invented computers.

I never said that Matrix was the first to do such a thing as i'm sure the original Terminator "borrowed" elements from other stories, I was commenting on a specifc post from someone who said he was confused how Matrix was ripping off Terminator. I was just asking what's so hard to comprehend there?

The only reason I even mentioned The Matrix to begin with is that some of TS's mainstream reviews are pointing out the fact this movie has some elements which now reminded them of the Matrix movies and I can see some of their points.

 

[Starkiller]

Actually, I think that ending would have been ballsy as hell and a nice, dark, kick in the gut sci-fi climax. And that is all too rare these days.

Do we really need more TERMINATOR movies with these same characters anyway? Besides, the films themselves provide endless "reboot" opportunities with their time-travel and timeline paradox conceit. You could kill them off and bring them back somehow and it wouldn't be any less silly than what's already occurred.

One of the biggest problems these days is that most studio movies have absolutely no balls, particularly genre films. And now it seems audiences have been emasculated as well, because I'd venture to guess most fans would crap themselves over an ending that was a kick in the face like that. That's too bad.

No it's because that ending would have been shock value for shock value sake, and would have nothing to add to the story except a cheesy, cliche, hollywood ending. Why would we invest our time with Connor in 3 films only to find out he was a machine? We would feel robbed, all that emotional investment for nothing. I'm glad they scrapped that crappy ending, and kept what was in the film.

 

[jedibear]

.... The story should have keyed in on Marcus, Serena, Kyle, and Blair. Had they used the story in the "From The Ashes" (FTA) novel, and then added parts that would allude to how good, valuable, tactically/strategically smart Connor is the movie would have made more sense. I read "FTA" and felt pretty good about it. Nothing about Marcus in it, but you got a good feel for Blair, Kyle, and even Star....


...There's something like 39 minutes that were cut out. Maybe that would have helped the story. Don't get me wrong, I liked the movie, it gets an above average rating from me....

...The T-700 is a non-player, useless. It was like a running change, early writing may have made it make sense, so then the manufacturer's started making the products. Money invested so it "HAD TO" stay in the film. Again, it seems like this wasn't really well thought out.

The T-600, really thought out in the book "From The Ashes" and some of that should have made it into this movie. The limited exposure of the T-600s in TS was a shame. The T-1? What happened to the scene when it rises up from behind John and from under the water? It's insane to show something in a preview/trailer and have it cut from the movie....

Great post sir...
I had read in a couple places that Bale had other writers take a crack at the script to beef up Connor's character at the expense of others...funny thing is, the result is slightly muddled and we're left with the feeling that stuff is missing (you mention 39 minutes...makes sense now) and even after that tinkering, Marcus still comes across as the main character with the most interesting arc.

It would have made more sense to keep Connor as a supporting character and a little more mythic...maybe waiting until the next movie to bring him to the forefront of the story, especially when one presumes that there is a ten year period to play with here (2018 in TS to 2028 in the prologue of T:JD).

Maybe if the movie generates enough coin, the studio will let McG offer an alternate cut on BD...incorporating that footage instead of doing just the standard clunky "deleted scenes" section...

I did notice after seeing some of the merch that there wasn't any mention of those T-700s and yes, it would have been cool to have a little more info on screen about the 600s...their "rubber mask" look was pretty intense and was a good reminder of Kyle Reese telling Sarah how the "early ones were easy to spot".

So that Zahn book "From the Ashes " is a pretty good read, eh? Almost picked it up a while back but I'm probably one of a small group who doesn't like what that guy did with Star Wars with his books, so I kept resisting...but if his take on this expands a bit on what we see here, I'll give it a shot...

And that ending? Gotta agree with Starkiller here....it would have just been a shock for shock's sake. Yes, it would have allowed for that now-popular "reboot" of the franchise so to speak, but I think what they did actually works pretty well.

 

[The Mike]

I hope they don't stick to what has already been said in the previous movies. Does John really have to send Kyle back? And then a Terminator? Things were already changing throughout the previous films.

If John doesn't send Kyle back he ceases to exist. Its the paradox that still goes through. Once Kyle goes back you're in uncharted territory. That's one of the reasons I hated it being in 2018, that means we've got 11 years to deal with before getting into some real serious new Terminator angles. The next film will probably leap ahead two or maybe three years but I doubt in the McG trilogy that they'll get past that. In the third film we'll probably see Kyle Reese had back in the third act to end the film.

 

[jye4ever]

If John doesn't send Kyle back he ceases to exist. Its the paradox that still goes through. Once Kyle goes back you're in uncharted territory. That's one of the reasons I hated it being in 2018, that means we've got 11 years to deal with before getting into some real serious new Terminator angles. The next film will probably leap ahead two or maybe three years but I doubt in the McG trilogy that they'll get past that. In the third film we'll probably see Kyle Reese had back in the third act to end the film.

Same here, I was hoping for a decade later as well.

Oh well, Skynet's Marcus creation and introducing KR was something the studio / filmakers felt was important enough to focus on, I guess it will have to do for now.

No one can claim that this movie was boring that's for sure.....then again....sure they can.....

Slumdog Millionaire and Benjamin Button could've used Warthog Fighter Jets in their movie a tad bit more than what they used....

 

[IrishJedi]

No it's because that ending would have been shock value for shock value sake, and would have nothing to add to the story except a cheesy, cliche, hollywood ending. Why would we invest our time with Connor in 3 films only to find out he was a machine? We would feel robbed, all that emotional investment for nothing. I'm glad they scrapped that crappy ending, and kept what was in the film.

The cliched Hollywood ending is what we got and what you are obviously used to!

Besides, the original ending wasn't a reveal that Connor is really a machine. He becomes one. Did you read it?

And "emotional investment"? With these past 2 films?? Man I don't even know where to begin with this post.

 

[Matt S]

McG took a guaranteed blockbuster and gave it a second place finish behind Night of the Museum 2....hopefully McG does not get to work on another Terminator movie....assuming with this lackluster performance there is another Terminator film

Source:

https://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aQc1bjnHK_JE&refer=home

 

[Morbach]

McG took a guaranteed blockbuster and gave it a second place finish behind Night of the Museum 2....hopefully McG does not get to work on another Terminator movie....assuming with this lackluster performance their is another Terminator film

Source:

https://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aQc1bjnHK_JE&refer=home

I don't know if I'd blame that on McG or not to be honest. When we're on here we see dozens of people wanting to see it and hyping it up but outside when you mention you want to see it you hear people say things like "ugh,they're doing another one?". People are sick of Terminator and think it's old regardless of what we think. I think that sucks we seem to be a dying breed...a dedicated dying breed.

 

[jye4ever]

The cliched Hollywood ending is what we got and what you are obviously used to!

Besides, the original ending wasn't a reveal that Connor is really a machine. He becomes one. Did you read it?

And "emotional investment"? With these past 2 films?? Man I don't even know where to begin with this post.

Actually, I don't think I felt like I suffered thru any cliche ending but I also don't think the other ending would've been bad either...

If I had to choose between the 2 though, I would've enjoyed what you and Admin Dave are saying....that Connor being made into a half cyborg being would've been ironic and fun to see....but I wouldn't want to see him wipe everyone out and be a hidden bad guy....well..maybe I would...

Wait...what was the original ending again......

Hey, my grandma had a hip replacment...her shiny hip looks like a piece from the T-800....

Holy crap.....Noona is a Terminator ......i'm going to go and peel her face back just to make sure.....

 

[Darth Madden]

Besides, the original ending wasn't a reveal that Connor is really a machine. He becomes one. Did you read it?

Thats a little better but I am glad they didn't go that way.

 

[JAWS]

I just watched T3 again and have to say that I don't understand the hate. Sure there's some misplaced humor and Stahl is miscast - but there's a distinct visual style that's far better than T:S and the villain is pretty cool. I don't think T3 is inferior to T:S and is better in some instances.

I do like that original ending - having the leader of the resistance be a true cyborg (part human/part machine, rather than all machine like the Terminators) is a great ironic twist.

I agree. I never understood the hate this film recieved. I think it has some of the best Action scenes of any of the films.

 

[IrishJedi]

I agree. I never understood the hate this film recieved. I think it has some of the best Action scenes of any of the films.

The car/vehicle chase near the beginning of the film is outstanding.

 

[Starkiller]

The cliched Hollywood ending is what we got and what you are obviously used to!

Besides, the original ending wasn't a reveal that Connor is really a machine. He becomes one. Did you read it?

And "emotional investment"? With these past 2 films?? Man I don't even know where to begin with this post.

No way dude.

"John Connor will be seen fighting a T-800 and losing the battle. Feeling that it's important to keep the image or idea that John Connor is still alive, the top resistance people "rip off Marcus' skin and put John Connor's on the skeleton so now Marcus is John Connor."

And another;

“We had a jet-black ending. Connor dies, we’re in a room with all the people we care about. You take Connor’s likeness, you put it on the living machine of Marcus. He sits up, now looking like Christian Bale, takes a gun, kills Kate, kills Kyle, kills Star, kills everybody, eyes flare red, [snaps] the end.”

Humans wouldn't be that advanced to do that without noticing that John's skin was stapled on. It's a dumb idea. Plus the hero of all 4 terminator films dying and machine taking his skin and killing everyone? That would be such a let done, such a joke. They went with the right ending. The future is endless, now John is the leader of the Resistance. The good fight is about to get good.

Connor has been the hero of the franchise, he's the one everyone is always trying to keep alive. We invest time into his mother, so that he can be born. We invest time in him when he is a child, and we are more emotionally attached watching him again almost get terminated in his 20s. Then again in this film, he almost dies again. If he did indeed die, it would be such a cop out. And wouldn't fit within the story of the T-800, infiltrating and eventually killing him.

 

[jye4ever]

I agree. I never understood the hate this film recieved. I think it has some of the best Action scenes of any of the films.

Yeah, that vehicle chase is insane plus the rocket to her face which sent her sailing to the tombstone s!

Actually, on my sound system, that movie is silly just how much it owns many others in the sound design.....

Arnie shooting the mini gun breaks my wife's vases every single time...

 

[jye4ever]

No way dude.

"John Connor will be seen fighting a T-800 and losing the battle. Feeling that it's important to keep the image or idea that John Connor is still alive, the top resistance people "rip off Marcus' skin and put John Connor's on the skeleton so now Marcus is John Connor."

And another;

“We had a jet-black ending. Connor dies, we’re in a room with all the people we care about. You take Connor’s likeness, you put it on the living machine of Marcus. He sits up, now looking like Christian Bale, takes a gun, kills Kate, kills Kyle, kills Star, kills everybody, eyes flare red, [snaps] the end.”

Humans wouldn't be that advanced to do that without noticing that John's skin was stapled on. It's a dumb idea. Plus the hero of all 4 terminator films dying and machine taking his skin and killing everyone? That would be such a let done, such a joke. They went with the right ending. The future is endless, now John is the leader of the Resistance. The good fight is about to get good.

Connor has been the hero of the franchise, he's the one everyone is always trying to keep alive. We invest time into his mother, so that he can be born. We invest time in him when he is a child, and we are more emotionally attached watching him again almost get terminated in his 20s. Then again in this film, he almost dies again. If he did indeed die, it would be such a cop out. And wouldn't fit within the story of the T-800, infiltrating and eventually killing him.

Crap....I think he made me change my mind....

 

[pjam]

For those interested in B.O. Numbers, the T4 wrap up from Nikki Finke's DHD...

"Warner Bros' Terminator: Salvation is already weak-kneed. The McG-directed 4th in the franchise starring Batman's Christian Bale is running out of steam after making $14.8 million in domestic grosses both Friday and Saturday for a 3-day weekend of just $42M from 3,530 venues. That's lower even than Watchmen's non-holiday Fri-Sat-Sun opening. T4 already brought in $3M from its Wednesday midnight showings and $13.5M Thursday for what should be an underperforming $52M for the 4-day holiday and a cume of $62M for the 5 days. Even though my box office gurus were confident Museum 2 would wind up #1, T4 "is pretty disappointing as most pundits thought it was going to win the weekend, as did most if not all of the tracking services," a rival studio exec notes. Under and over age 25 males turned out, but the buzz turned rancid among fanboys who overwhelmingly didn't like the pic. (Top critics didn't either: there were only 33% positive reviews at Rotten Tomatoes). Warner Bros expected more, especially because T4 benefitted from worldwide awareness from that Christian Bale audio."

 

[MisterToyNYC]

Personally, I loved the movie and look forward to the next one.

What I can't get over was the size of Helena Bonham Carter's bald head! It looked like a freakin' light bulb!

Eric

 

[jye4ever]

What was up with the fighter pilot girl (Blair) and her ever changing racoon cami around her eyes....one second it was real dark, next it was almost gone.

Who does she think she is, Conan the Barbarian infiltrating Thulsa's sect! She should've had a sword on her hip...

^^^^ it...it's after Armageddon....if I survived, I would wear a sword on my back just because I could.....

If I try that now, pre nuclear holocaust, i'll get arrested....booooo...