1/6 Hot Toys Avengers: Endgame - Iron Man

[GaryPool]

Whoah, whoah, whoah.

Whoah.

I just realised... if Hot Toys are delaying the release of this and replacing the head sculpt to that of the prototype, then this means it wasn't a licensor issues, as how would Hot Toys suddenly be able to go back on what was approved to the initial prototype?

If so they really need to stick to mostly what is shown in prototypes, because the amount of orders they get is based on what is shown, therefore one purchase equals approval and satisfaction. The fact that the proto, including the armour, was preferred beforehand, they shouldn't have changed a thing in my opinion.

 

[OneSixFix]

@J85M i bought the battle damaged Tony head and the new 003. i have to say both are awesome and really detailed. The represent the true age of RDJ, wich HT might not be allowed to. Most of their head sculpts portrait the actors a bit younger and more "perfect".

Def check out some youtube reviews of maxnut head sculpts. Optical20 for example. I love mine ^_^

 

[hellgrammite00]

Whoah, whoah, whoah.

Whoah.

I just realised... if Hot Toys are delaying the release of this and replacing the head sculpt to that of the prototype, then this means it wasn't a licensor issues, as how would Hot Toys suddenly be able to go back on what was approved to the initial prototype?

If so they really need to stick to mostly what is shown in prototypes, because the amount of orders they get is based on what is shown, therefore one purchase equals approval and satisfaction. The fact that the proto, including the armour, was preferred beforehand, they shouldn't have changed a thing in my opinion.

Because the prototype is usually approved, not the final product. In a lot of cases, approval of the prototype is done, and production starts a short time thereafter (over the next several weeks). Hot Toys, especially nowadays, is a bit longer than other toy manufactures where it can take months until production starts, if not longer because of numerous issues or a growing catalog.

If anything this could be very much a licensor issue. They have final word, and after seeing the blowback, contacted HT and said this is not to what we agreed to 6 or 12 months ago.

This has happened not just in the toy industry, but in the video game and movie industry as well.

A similar issue I can recall is when Battlefield 2 video game came out and got negative feedback for the lootboxes. Disney contacted them almost immediately after launch and told them to scrap the lootboxes. Disney was likely generally aware of the game design and the lootbox content, but didnt fully appreciate both the extent of it and negative outcry it generated.

 

[hellgrammite00]

@J85M i bought the battle damaged Tony head and the new 003. i have to say both are awesome and really detailed. The represent the true age of RDJ, wich HT might not be allowed to. Most of their head sculpts portrait the actors a bit younger and more "perfect".

Def check out some youtube reviews of maxnut head sculpts. Optical20 for example. I love mine ^_^

Ya know, I took a look and that sculpt I decided to pick up. One of the best 'aged' Tony Stark sculpts I have seen.

 

[GaryPool]

Because the prototype is usually approved, not the final product. In a lot of cases, approval of the prototype is done, and production starts a short time thereafter (over the next several weeks). Hot Toys, especially nowadays, is a bit longer than other toy manufactures where it can take months until production starts, if not longer because of numerous issues or a growing catalog.

If anything this could be very much a licensor issue. They have final word, and after seeing the blowback, contacted HT and said this is not to what we agreed to 6 or 12 months ago.

This has happened not just in the toy industry, but in the video game and movie industry as well.

A similar issue I can recall is when Battlefield 2 video game came out and got negative feedback for the lootboxes. Disney contacted them almost immediately after launch and told them to scrap the lootboxes. Disney was likely generally aware of the game design and the lootbox content, but didnt fully appreciate both the extent of it and negative outcry it generated.

I don't think I'm understanding. If the prototype is what was approved by the licensor and the actor, then why did Hot Toys change the sculpt afterwards? And if the sculpt was changed from the prototype to what was released and now very quickly being changed back again, it sure doesn't sound like the actor at the least let alone the licensor has suddenly changed their mind based on negative feedback and given the green light on a sculpt they clearly deemed to not be the best portrayal?

If it is being changed back to the prototype then either the licensor and possibly the actor was very quickly contacted and very quickly decided to change their stance on the changes, which sounds extremely unlikely.

 

[yacobschlomo]

I don't think I'm understanding. If the prototype is what was approved by the licensor and the actor, then why did Hot Toys change the sculpt afterwards? And if the sculpt was changed from the prototype to what was released and now very quickly being changed back again, it sure doesn't sound like the actor at the least let alone the licensor has suddenly changed their mind based on negative feedback and given the green light on a sculpt they clearly deemed to not be the best portrayal?

If it is being changed back to the prototype then either the licensor and possibly the actor was very quickly contacted and very quickly decided to change their stance on the changes, which sounds extremely unlikely.

1. A lot of people assume Disney cares about accurate likeness to the character when approving sculpts, but that's really not a major factor in the approvals (just look at the terrible licensed head sculpts that are approved - e.g., some of the iron studios stuff). What they are primarily looking for is to ensure that nothing produced is damaging to their brand or misrepresents the character.

2. Regardless of what is or is not approved, if the Disney feels like the outcry is big enough to negatively impact their brand, they will request the licensee take steps to fix it (see hellgrammites Battlefront 2 example with the loot boxes, which was approved by Disney, but still had to be removed after public outcry, because Disney didn't want negative new for their star wars brand). If the fault is with Hot Toys, they will bear the costs. If nit, then Disney will help beat the costs.

 

[Mr.Tanker]

I don't think I'm understanding. If the prototype is what was approved by the licensor and the actor, then why did Hot Toys change the sculpt afterwards? And if the sculpt was changed from the prototype to what was released and now very quickly being changed back again, it sure doesn't sound like the actor at the least let alone the licensor has suddenly changed their mind based on negative feedback and given the green light on a sculpt they clearly deemed to not be the best portrayal?

If it is being changed back to the prototype then either the licensor and possibly the actor was very quickly contacted and very quickly decided to change their stance on the changes, which sounds extremely unlikely.

The prototype shown in the original photos had not been approved when pre-orders went up.

The assumption is that, for whatever reason, Disney or RDJ did not end up approving that original sculpt, and that lead to Hot Toys developing the new sculpt.

The fact that they are delaying this by such a massive amount may indicate that they are going back and attempting to get a new sculpt approved. (Or it may just be that taking the 46/47/50 sculpt molds requires them to find a way to fit them back into their production schedule for the year, and they couldn't fit them in until much later.)

 

[OneSixFix]

there is this rumor, an ex-employee (kojun?) did not allow HT to use his creation on that mk85, so they rushed to produce another one. This would explain a lot...however, it's just a rumor...

The official HT detail page says head sculpt by GOX, so it seems, the rumor could be very true!

 

[gmoney5000]

We can all speculate all we want, but the truth is we'll never know...however we can make inferences based on prior knowledge of HT.

They ARE capable of phenomenal work when they want to put in the effort, but they are also very capable of being lazy and complacent. Unfortunately the latter trait has been HT's go-to modus operandi recently as we've seen with such mediocre releases of the Rudd-gate and the super supbar downgrade of the Stealth Suit Spidey.

Now the fact that literally a day after release and intense backlash HT is suddenly backpedaling to the initial prototype, to me, shows they opted for a cheaper, lesser headsculpt cause it would have provided incentive for buyers of only the clean Mk 85 to then go ahead and buy the BD version for the more superior likeness.

Anyways I'm glad more people are catching onto HT and their complacency and tendency to take their fan base/consumers for suckers/granted. I've been spouting this for awhile now, but I'm happy to see people coming around now!

 

[yacobschlomo]

Also, I must be missing something about the prototype sculpt vs what was released. Is the sculpt on the left below not the prototype? Because aside from the hair area, these sculpts are almost exactly the same less the paint.

 

[OneSixFix]

Now the fact that literally a day after release and intense backlash HT is suddenly backpedaling to the initial prototype, to me, shows they opted for a cheaper, lesser headsculpt cause it would have provided incentive for buyers of only the clean Mk 85 to then go ahead and buy the BD version for the more superior likeness.

frankly...that's BS... why would they opt to spend money on yet another head sculpt development, just to piss off fans, wich supposedly not buy the clean MK85 over the battle damaged version? Just makes no sense to me, sorry... Iron Man will ALWAYS sell for HT, no matter which version. At least in Asia! ^_^

 

[hellgrammite00]

Also, I must be missing something about the prototype sculpt vs what was released. Is the sculpt on the left below not the prototype? Because aside from the hair area, these sculpts are almost exactly the same less the paint.View attachment 502250

The shape of the faces is very different.

Your starting to scare me if you think these sculpts look identical.

I don't think I'm understanding. If the prototype is what was approved by the licensor and the actor, then why did Hot Toys change the sculpt afterwards? And if the sculpt was changed from the prototype to what was released and now very quickly being changed back again, it sure doesn't sound like the actor at the least let alone the licensor has suddenly changed their mind based on negative feedback and given the green light on a sculpt they clearly deemed to not be the best portrayal?

If it is being changed back to the prototype then either the licensor and possibly the actor was very quickly contacted and very quickly decided to change their stance on the changes, which sounds extremely unlikely.

HT might have the prototype available for both marketing and for licensing approval, the same prototype in many cases. The sculpt is generally never 100% accurate because paint apps and the detail of the sculpt may likely be softer in final product. These are things generally accepted in the toy industry from my sources in it. Basically approval for the product is given assuming the production does not meaningfully differ from the production (this of course is a trust thing since meaningful differences can vary and be open to interpretation)

What could have happened is Marvel pretty much signs off on the facesculpts for prototypes and never really complain since the final products are 90-95% of what was approved.

However this time might have been different, Marvel calls them up, and says you know what, the production we feel is too far off from the signed off approved prototype, and you have to release something much closer to the prototype. We see a lot of negative feedback globally, and our marketing team is saying they feel this needs to be addressed.

From what I hear, there isn't really much sign-off for a product for the final production version, unless the license has a particular extra interest for some reason.

This doesn't happen often, but it has happened. Given the power of Marvel, HT would not blink at a request like this.

 

[yacobschlomo]

The shape of the faces is very different.

Your starting to scare me if you think these sculpts look identical.

Shape is the same, which is why JC Hong posted the comparison. Just look at the key features in the sculpt. The darker paint makes it look the cheaks are thinner. Look at the bottom picture I added - bottom right vs top left which are from the same angle.

Which part of the shape is different to you?

 

[hellgrammite00]

Shape is the same, which is why JC Hong posted the comparison. Just look at the key features in the sculpt. The paint makes it look different. Look at the bottom picture I added - bottom right vs top left which are from the same angle.

Which part of the shape is different to you?

It seems subtle changes to the jawline, forehead.

It is very minor, but with a mediocre paint job it looks very different. I think JC Hong getting hate is a little crazy here. Either way it goes from a good headsculpt to a poor one, and that might be less on the sculpt itself and the paint job (though the sculpt seems slightly off, its hard to judge from a couple of stills.) Combined we are left with an inferior product.

All of this might be forgivable to me if the paint job was more accurate on the 85. I am calling SS on Monday to cancel. I don't need to pay $400 for mediocrity. I already have enough Iron Man, and don't need to start adding figures clearly rushed in some phases of development. I rather wait for the battle damaged to see if this can be salvaged.

 

[Rbeato]

So I've had this on pre-order from Sideshow forever. Think I'm going to try to cancel it Monday and swap to something else if they'll let me move all of my funds. What Iron Man should I look to pivot to? I don't have an IM yet, and I only plan on buying one. I'd prefer something with a full unhelmeted Stark HS, as I have at body and outfit already sitting here for it.

I'm just confused trying to sort through all of them.

If I was in your situation I?d definitely go with the mark 7. Such an iconic classic tank of an iron man figure. Of course, you gotta buy what you like. Do you want a more futuristic type armor (mk47?) or a more mechanical original style armor mk7?

 

[yacobschlomo]

It seems subtle changes to the jawline, forehead.

It is very minor, but with a mediocre paint job it looks very different. I think JC Hong getting hate is a little crazy here. Either way it goes from a good headsculpt to a poor one, and that might be less on the sculpt itself and the paint job (though the sculpt seems slightly off, its hard to judge from a couple of stills.) Combined we are left with an inferior product.

All of this might be forgivable to me if the paint job was more accurate on the 85. I am calling SS on Monday to cancel. I don't need to pay $400 for mediocrity. I already have enough Iron Man, and don't need to start adding figures clearly rushed in some phases of development. I rather wait for the battle damaged to see if this can be salvaged.

Maybe you're right. I thought the prototype already had a thinner shape from previous figures. Hard to compare photos taken with different cameras / angles. We do know it did not come out looking good. And I agree, the paint on the figure would bother me more as I have sculpts from other figures I could use for this.

 

[hellgrammite00]

Maybe you're right. I thought the prototype already had a thinner shape from previous figures. Hard to compare photos taken with different cameras / angles. We do know it did not come out looking good. And I agree, the paint on the figure would bother me more as I have sculpts from other figures I could use for this.

I see your point about not giant changes in the sculpt. But even very minor changes in a face can start to alter the likeness significantly. It really is amazing how just changing the jawline or cheeks a bit can have a impact. I was making custom figures for awhile, and the face was what always took forever. I could get a face 80% there, but have to keep reworking because the cheek bones would be off, or the forehead too large.

 

[Mr.Tanker]

Also, I must be missing something about the prototype sculpt vs what was released. Is the sculpt on the left below not the prototype? Because aside from the hair area, these sculpts are almost exactly the same less the paint.View attachment 502250View attachment 502251

The new one looks to be a completely separate sculpt.

The face is longer and thinner. But now I almost wonder if it is supposed to be the same sculpt. What if there was an issue with the mold, and this was ultimately a huge quality control issue? The mold was bad, resulting in the thinner, smoother, elongated head, and that is why they are making the unprecedented decision to replace the produced heads and delay the figure going forward.

It would honestly explain a lot.

 

[Bleah]

Also, I must be missing something about the prototype sculpt vs what was released. Is the sculpt on the left below not the prototype? Because aside from the hair area, these sculpts are almost exactly the same less the paint.View attachment 502250View attachment 502251

Not really. If you look at the facial curve halfway at the ears, the prototype has it going outwards before it tapers. The production one immediately tapers from the top of the rear. So it's not just the paint.

 

[yacobschlomo]

Not really. If you look at the facial curve halfway at the ears, the prototype has it going outwards before it tapers. The production one immediately tapers from the top of the rear. So it's not just the paint.

Yeah, I was completely off on it being the same sculpt. I'm not even sure what I was seeing now, because I just looked at some of the key features again and they were different (e.g., eyes, top lip). Hellgrammite was right to be scared for me, because it's not even close. Going to have to chalk it up to old age/bad eyesight, because the differences are so obvious on a 34 inch monitor vs 14" laptop screen.