Captain America 2: The Winter Soldier (SPOILERS)

Re: Captain America 2: The Winter Soldier

I was rewatching Iron Man last night and it may be that we remember it so fondly becuz it was a good intro intro into the MCU... but its ok. TWS is far better imo

Re: Captain America 2: The Winter Soldier

My worry right now is about Cap 3. Can they top the Winter Soldier, or will it fall in line with other lack luster third parters like superman 3, spidey 3, x-men 3, dark knight 3, and iron man 3?

Re: Captain America 2: The Winter Soldier

chewblacca said:

My worry right now is about Cap 3. Can they top the Winter Soldier, or will it fall in line with other lack luster third parters like superman 3, spidey 3, x-men 3, dark knight 3, and iron man 3?

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Well its a good sign that (a) the same directors and writers are attached (altho admittedly that did little for TDKR and Spiderman 3) and (b) theyve been working on the story since late last year and their still 2 years from release.

Re: Captain America 2: The Winter Soldier

Wake said:

I was rewatching Iron Man last night and it may be that we remember it so fondly becuz it was a good intro intro into the MCU... but its ok. TWS is far better imo

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I still think the original Iron Man is absolutely fantastic. Very true to the comic origin. Great actors. Appropriate use of humour etc...

Re: Captain America 2: The Winter Soldier

Snadinator said:

I still think the original Iron Man is absolutely fantastic. Very true to the comic origin. Great actors. Appropriate use of humour etc...

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Im not disagreeing with you.... however... TWS is much more sophisticated and mature and better crafted.

Re: Captain America 2: The Winter Soldier

Just like BB, third act fumbled a little, just not as bad as BB though.

Re: Captain America 2: The Winter Soldier

The Josh said:

I enjoy both IM3 and MoS.

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Shocking . . . considering you unconditionally enjoy everything and seem to possess no critical differentiation abilities whatsoever.

jye4ever said:

Oh, and Cap 2 makes IM3 seem even worse.

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/\ So much THIS!

The Winter Soldier was a superb spy/techno thriller within a superb superhero movie.

Iron Man 3 was a lackluster epilogue to The Avengers that served as a commercial for pegwarming toys at Wal-Mart.

Whenever the title character of a film becomes a supporting character in said film, your script is no more than toilet paper.
(I'm looking at you, IM3 and Blade 3 and Tha Dork Knight Retires)

Nuff said . . .

Re: Captain America 2: The Winter Soldier

Khev said:

I actually put TFA above all those already but obviously I've got a serious bias. TWS is just straight across the board awesome no matter where your preference lies AND it's the movie to show to non-Cap fans to help them "get" what makes him so awesome.

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Have you watched The First Avenger again since you've seen The Winter Soldier? I hadn't seen the First Avenger in a couple of years. After I saw TWS, I came home and popped in TFA. It felt infinitely better, and I was one of the people that loved TFA when I first saw it in theaters. Winter Soldier was so good that it elevated TFA for me. Characters like Bucky, Peggy and Zola are put in a different light for me.

Oh, and am I the only one that loves the credit titles for these films? Maybe I'm a sucker for the graphics, but I LOVE the contrast between the TFA and the TWS credits. The colorful, patriotic propaganda vibes of TFA vs. the stark white/black TWS. I always have a stupid grin on my face after a Marvel movie, I think their credit sequences are art in themselves. People can say what they want about Iron Man 3, but who didn't dig that 60s Iron Man comic book vibe with the new soundtrack?

Re: Captain America 2: The Winter Soldier

DiFabio said:

Have you watched The First Avenger again since you've seen The Winter Soldier? I hadn't seen the First Avenger in a couple of years. After I saw TWS, I came home and popped in TFA. It felt infinitely better, and I was one of the people that loved TFA when I first saw it in theaters. Winter Soldier was so good that it elevated TFA for me. Characters like Bucky, Peggy and Zola are put in a different light for me.

Oh, and am I the only one that loves the credit titles for these films? Maybe I'm a sucker for the graphics, but I LOVE the contrast between the TFA and the TWS credits. The colorful, patriotic propaganda vibes of TFA vs. the stark white/black TWS. I always have a stupid grin on my face after a Marvel movie, I think their credit sequences are art in themselves. People can say what they want about Iron Man 3, but who didn't dig that 60s Iron Man comic book vibe with the new soundtrack?

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The avengers and IM2 credits are great too!

Re: Captain America 2: The Winter Soldier

Gully Foyle said:

Shocking . . . considering you unconditionally enjoy everything and seem to possess no critical differentiation abilities whatsoever.

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I enjoy what I enjoy. There are always things I don't like about certain movies but I choose to focus on what I like instead of what I don't. It makes for a much more enjoyable experience. I don't like everything I hated Gravity.

Re: Captain America 2: The Winter Soldier

DiFabio said:

People can say what they want about Iron Man 3, but who didn't dig that 60s Iron Man comic book vibe with the new soundtrack?

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Credits for their movies kick ass, especially Avengers, TFA, Thor 2, IM3 and TWS.

And yes, TWS elevated TFA even more.

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I hope Cap 3 or Avengers 2 uses the Rocky 1 soundtrack.

Re: Captain America 2: The Winter Soldier

Wake said:

Im not disagreeing with you.... however... TWS is much more sophisticated and mature and better crafted.

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I think you're pointing out differences in approach though, for the most part. Iron Man 1 wasn't meant to be particularly sophisticated. It was meant to be a showcase for RDJ's Tony Stark and to serve as the origin of Iron Man. In addition to being an action film, it was meant to be fun and humorous. And on that level, I think it succeeds fantastically. Similarly, I think X2 and Spider-Man 2 are still the best examples of really traditional comic storytelling brought to the screen, with Thor 2 pretty close behind them. There are movies beat Winter Soldier as non-comic stories of political trickery/intrigue/spying/whatnot (Three Days of the Condor, The Parallax View, the Spy Who Came In from the Cold, Manchurian Candidate, All the President's Men, the Conversation, Tinker, Tailer, Soldier, Spy, etc.), and there are comic movies that beat it in the fantastic "comic booky" components. But as a mixture of the two, nothing comes close to Winter Soldier. But how a film is crafted is based on its goals as a film, and on that merit, I personally try to gauge success based on how well that goal seems to have been accomplished.

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Thats not what i mean at all. Iron Man feels likes its made for an adolescent brain (thankfully im more than capable of reverting lol) whilst captain america TWS feels like its made for the exact same audience only 6 years later when tastes have matured and sophistication has taken hold.

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To me that's like saying that the Big Lebowski, Fear and Loathing, or Stripes are only made for the adolescent brain because they had goofy humor, but those films all succeed at their goals, no? And are presumably aimed, at least in part, at adults. Plus, if you want genuine sophistication then you're probably going to take issue with guys with robot arms, super steroid powers, robot wings, flying battleships, etc. But most comic films have a limit on the level of "maturity" that they can potentially reach. I see them as just different approaches. Different kinds of stories. I'm assuming Guardians of the Galaxy will be going for the same kind of thing as Iron Man.

Re: Captain America 2: The Winter Soldier

I loved this film, I might see it again before the end of the month. One thing I can say about marvel, no matter how mediocre some of the films can be, they care a great deal about these characters and give them room to breath in all their films, even in the heat of battle the characters never forget who they are and act accordingly, which is a breath of fresh air when it seems alot of other films just look for reasons for characters to fight and kill each other even when it doesn't make sense for those characters to do it. Not talking about any particular film just in general that's what it seems like with movies today.

TWS was a great change to what has become a boring formula to me in recent years. Good job on the Russo's part for making this film.

Re: Captain America 2: The Winter Soldier

Wake said:

Im not disagreeing with you.... however... TWS is much more sophisticated and mature and better crafted.

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In your opinion that is.

Re: Captain America 2: The Winter Soldier

Snadinator said:

In your opinion that is.

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In my EXPERT (im a film editor with 15 years of experience in the business and director/producer and photographer with a BFA in creative writing) PROFESSIONAL opinion.... yes.

Re: Captain America 2: The Winter Soldier

DiFabio said:

Have you watched The First Avenger again since you've seen The Winter Soldier? I hadn't seen the First Avenger in a couple of years. After I saw TWS, I came home and popped in TFA. It felt infinitely better, and I was one of the people that loved TFA when I first saw it in theaters. Winter Soldier was so good that it elevated TFA for me. Characters like Bucky, Peggy and Zola are put in a different light for me.

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I haven't watched TFA since TWS but I love it so much I watch it probably 4-5 times a year and it was pretty fresh in my mind when watching TWS. It was really touching seeing Cap and Peggy get closure.

DiFabio said:

Oh, and am I the only one that loves the credit titles for these films? Maybe I'm a sucker for the graphics, but I LOVE the contrast between the TFA and the TWS credits. The colorful, patriotic propaganda vibes of TFA vs. the stark white/black TWS. I always have a stupid grin on my face after a Marvel movie, I think their credit sequences are art in themselves. People can say what they want about Iron Man 3, but who didn't dig that 60s Iron Man comic book vibe with the new soundtrack?

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Agreed on all counts. TFA, TWS, *AND* IM3 all had great closing credit montages.

And hey where would you rank TWS with regard to superhero flicks? If B89 and TDK are at the top for you I'm curious where TWS resides.