URGENT!!-anybody who is owed clothing from moe's production's must read this-URGENT!!

[SwedishHeat]

Re: UEGENT!!-anybody who is owed clothing from moe's production's must read this-URGE

The problem with custom figure projects and runs is cashflow... it takes a lot of money to pay for outfits, casting supplies, etc. Let's say it's a low estimate of $200 for an outfit and another $100 for head, accessories and paint. So we now have a total of $6,000 invested to make 20 figures. So rather than one person having $6,000 tied up, 20 people have $300.

The problem with this, is these massive deposits. Deposits should be for the customizer to buy the raw materials for the run. $200 is enough for a gallon of silicon and a gallon of resin, which is MORE than enough for a run of 40-50 heads. Fabric is cheap as well. I wouldn't suggest a dollar amount that should be sufficient for purchasing raw materials. But I think a more realistic deposit amount would be a good way to prevent these massive thefts.

I think part of the problem with rising prices in the Customs section is "flake insurance" and recast deterrence. If a deposit is only $20, a person is much more likely to back out on the final payment when that $400 is due, as $20 is not much to lose. So, the customizer ends up using that $20 to buy the materials and makes the figure and spends that time, only to not get paid for it. That's what really hurts.

Ultimately, a customizer should work like a bonafide independent contractor and ask for payments at milestones and show progress. And put that calendar up front.

$20 to start for raw materials.

When head castings are done, $50 is due

When head painting is done $100 is due.

When clothing is done, $150 is due.

So on and so forth.

Ultimately, it will require that the customizer is more accountable, and it will be more work. And it will require mods to enforce the rules. And it will require the members to report the posts and/or customizer if they're not following the rules.

 

[SwedishHeat]

Re: UEGENT!!-anybody who is owed clothing from moe's production's must read this-URGE

It is fairly clear to see someone like you or Geewhiz not screwing people up since you guys have built your reputation over the years on different forums.

Sorry, but Geewhiz popping up out of nowhere (relatively) and asking $1,600 for a custom Batman figure, just SCREAMS screw-job potential. There are always going to be people vouching for someone. You can't make exceptions to the rules, just because "Oh, I know this guy, he's a good dude". How many people vouched for Moe over the last few months? With the amount of hero worship that goes on, in this forum particularly, I wouldn't bet on ANYONE not cutting and running. You see guys like Serang, who's been a pillar for many, many years now having difficulties. You can just never tell who's going to go bad.

 

[toylion]

Re: UEGENT!!-anybody who is owed clothing from moe's production's must read this-URGE

Sorry, but Geewhiz popping up out of nowhere (relatively) and asking $1,600 for a custom Batman figure, just SCREAMS screw-job potential. There are always going to be people vouching for someone. You can't make exceptions to the rules, just because "Oh, I know this guy, he's a good dude". How many people vouched for Moe over the last few months? With the amount of hero worship that goes on, in this forum particularly, I wouldn't bet on ANYONE not cutting and running. You see guys like Serang, who's been a pillar for many, many years now having difficulties. You can just never tell who's going to go bad.

 

[Doom Saber]

Re: UEGENT!!-anybody who is owed clothing from moe's production's must read this-URGE

Sorry, but Geewhiz popping up out of nowhere (relatively) and asking $1,600 for a custom Batman figure, just SCREAMS screw-job potential. There are always going to be people vouching for someone. You can't make exceptions to the rules, just because "Oh, I know this guy, he's a good dude". How many people vouched for Moe over the last few months? With the amount of hero worship that goes on, in this forum particularly, I wouldn't bet on ANYONE not cutting and running. You see guys like Serang, who's been a pillar for many, many years now having difficulties. You can just never tell who's going to go bad.

While it is true that he popped up recently here, people have known him for years on other sites. He even has his own facebook site and customizing service that has been out for years. I feel more comfortable buying from some guy who people know at various forums and has his own website and customizing service with no website or no branching out like Moe.

You got me on Serang, though. I did made a comment that even good artists become rotten because of being overwhelmed, but deleted it before I posted it.

 

[Cheungkinmen]

Re: UEGENT!!-anybody who is owed clothing from moe's production's must read this-URGE

With custom figure artists, there is always that factor, life getting in the way, I mean Rainman could in any moment drop dead or have major health issues and not deliver. I guess trust is what is left between seller and buyer, unless seller goes major leagues and have someone else to vouch for it's work. I personally do communicate as much as possible when it is about my projects, I post anything from a small update or what's happening with me, so people know I am still there. Also, I only ask for deposits to start a project, those are mainly to pay the tailor, all of the other costs are on me, I then ask for the rest of payment once I am finished and they are ready to ship. I would like to cover myself the cost of the clothing so the buyer don't have to risk their money, but I am working on that.

 

[Doom Saber]

Re: UEGENT!!-anybody who is owed clothing from moe's production's must read this-URGE

With custom figure artists, there is always that factor, life getting in the way, I mean Rainman could in any moment drop dead or have major health issues and not deliver. I guess trust is what is left between seller and buyer, unless seller goes major leagues and have someone else to vouch for it's work. I personally do communicate as much as possible when it is about my projects, I post anything from a small update or what's happening with me, so people know I am still there. Also, I only ask for deposits to start a project, those are mainly to pay the tailor, all of the other costs are on me, I then ask for the rest of payment once I am finished and they are ready to ship. I would like to cover myself the cost of the clothing so the buyer don't have to risk their money, but I am working on that.

I think deposits are fine since some do it as a security means. I don't think it would anyone if the artist puts in big bold letters that there is a non-refundable deposit for raw material

 

[Punishment1218]

Re: UEGENT!!-anybody who is owed clothing from moe's production's must read this-URGE

IMO 45 days is fine, and here's why. Do your projects in smaller runs. Only take on what you can do within those 45 days. When you're done with that batch, then open up another list. If you cant get it done, then don't offer the project till its finished. If you cant finish it or if startup money's an issue, then DON'T DO THE PROJECT. Just my two cents.

 

[Lejuan]

Re: UEGENT!!-anybody who is owed clothing from moe's production's must read this-URGE

IMO 45 days is fine, and here's why. Do your projects in smaller runs. Only take on what you can do within those 45 days. When you're done with that batch, then open up another list. If you cant get it done, then don't offer the project till its finished. If you cant finish it or if startup money's an issue, then DON'T DO THE PROJECT. Just my two cents.

A likely consequence of that model is that the division of labour efficiencies are reduced on more complex projects, and those increased costs are inevitably passed on to the buyer.

 

[mightyq]

Re: UEGENT!!-anybody who is owed clothing from moe's production's must read this-URGE

Sorry, but Geewhiz popping up out of nowhere (relatively) and asking $1,600 for a custom Batman figure, just SCREAMS screw-job potential. There are always going to be people vouching for someone. You can't make exceptions to the rules, just because "Oh, I know this guy, he's a good dude". How many people vouched for Moe over the last few months? With the amount of hero worship that goes on, in this forum particularly, I wouldn't bet on ANYONE not cutting and running. You see guys like Serang, who's been a pillar for many, many years now having difficulties. You can just never tell who's going to go bad.

thi is what happens when you live just on this forum. gee whiz has been around with a website for years. why people think that SS is the be all and end all of figure collecting is beyond me! they probably have more of a reputation than 90% of the customizers on here. to make that statement because he popped on here offering a high end custom for alot of money is really in POOR taste. they are an an integral part of OSR(one sixth republic) facebook. how many of you know what that even is? their just a 13,000 member 1/6 th site signing up 200 new members a day. i get it, you have your opinion, thats fine, sound off. sorry but when i see something that is directed at somebody that is so respectful and trust worthy that i have to have an opinion of my own. GEE WHIZ is good people who operate like a real business.

 

[AlphaBravo]

Re: UEGENT!!-anybody who is owed clothing from moe's production's must read this-URGE

How many other projects are out there that people have money down on and still waiting? I see that the top customizers are Rainman, Serang, and Beto?

 

[TheFiend]

Re: UEGENT!!-anybody who is owed clothing from moe's production's must read this-URGE

Even IMINIME still asks money up front, right?

 

[Rdeezy]

Re: UEGENT!!-anybody who is owed clothing from moe's production's must read this-URGE

Even IMINIME still asks money up front, right?

Yes, everything is paid upfront, preorder is usually 6 months or so before the figure ships out.

 

[galactiboy]

Re: UEGENT!!-anybody who is owed clothing from moe's production's must read this-URGE

The problem with this, is these massive deposits. Deposits should be for the customizer to buy the raw materials for the run. $200 is enough for a gallon of silicon and a gallon of resin, which is MORE than enough for a run of 40-50 heads. Fabric is cheap as well. I wouldn't suggest a dollar amount that should be sufficient for purchasing raw materials. But I think a more realistic deposit amount would be a good way to prevent these massive thefts.

I think part of the problem with rising prices in the Customs section is "flake insurance" and recast deterrence. If a deposit is only $20, a person is much more likely to back out on the final payment when that $400 is due, as $20 is not much to lose. So, the customizer ends up using that $20 to buy the materials and makes the figure and spends that time, only to not get paid for it. That's what really hurts.

Ultimately, a customizer should work like a bonafide independent contractor and ask for payments at milestones and show progress. And put that calendar up front.

$20 to start for raw materials.

When head castings are done, $50 is due

When head painting is done $100 is due.

When clothing is done, $150 is due.

So on and so forth.

Ultimately, it will require that the customizer is more accountable, and it will be more work. And it will require mods to enforce the rules. And it will require the members to report the posts and/or customizer if they're not following the rules.

I think your method has merit... and I believe Marlin did something similar with his Chinatown figure and it seemed to work well.

What happens is the last part of accountability and work comes in and people (even customers) don't want to be bothered with all the steps. Seems people would rather send $600 now and just wait w/o protection rather that do it in stages.

With custom figure artists, there is always that factor, life getting in the way, I mean Rainman could in any moment drop dead or have major health issues and not deliver. I guess trust is what is left between seller and buyer, unless seller goes major leagues and have someone else to vouch for it's work. I personally do communicate as much as possible when it is about my projects, I post anything from a small update or what's happening with me, so people know I am still there. Also, I only ask for deposits to start a project, those are mainly to pay the tailor, all of the other costs are on me, I then ask for the rest of payment once I am finished and they are ready to ship. I would like to cover myself the cost of the clothing so the buyer don't have to risk their money, but I am working on that.

It's really unfortunate that there can't just be enough trust and respect on both sides of the fence for this to work. It certainly works 9 times out of 10, and Johnny you're a great example of how projects can run. Sure it takes time, but there are frequent updates (and not just before you get paid) and the figures are all delivered with the highest of quality. Sadly it's the 1 out of 10 that drags their feet, doesn't deliver or deliver's something that is sub-par.

How many other projects are out there that people have money down on and still waiting? I see that the top customizers are Rainman, Serang, and Beto?

Yes, everything is paid upfront, preorder is usually 6 months or so before the figure ships out.

The pay now, get later is pretty rampant. And just look at Shrunken Head Studios... A industry veteran, gets the license for Creepshow, creates a great figure and puts it up for order. But he asks for the money up-front. A lot of us pay and now it's been two years and no figure. He has at least been communicating about the situation and seems like he will still deliver (at likely a financial loss) but again because of how he set up the orders as a customer I have no recourse except to wait and see what happens.

If he does offer a second figure, I'll just wait until it's done to buy. Not going to pre-order with him again

 

[Something Sexy]

Re: UEGENT!!-anybody who is owed clothing from moe's production's must read this-URGE

Perhaps just limit the amount of runs per artist, moe had how many open runs going on, perhaps 2 runs per artist at a time, maybe even 1 to limit the possibility of a massive money hit to a lot of people.

Once everyone on the list has their item the artist needs to get the thread closed or unpostable, or remove their paypal address from the first page, then they can start a new project or run.

That can work for just this board but I have seen artists do runs out side of the board or through PMs. It will be difficult to control.

 

[Something Sexy]

Re: UEGENT!!-anybody who is owed clothing from moe's production's must read this-URGE

The problem with this, is these massive deposits. Deposits should be for the customizer to buy the raw materials for the run. $200 is enough for a gallon of silicon and a gallon of resin, which is MORE than enough for a run of 40-50 heads. Fabric is cheap as well. I wouldn't suggest a dollar amount that should be sufficient for purchasing raw materials. But I think a more realistic deposit amount would be a good way to prevent these massive thefts.

I think part of the problem with rising prices in the Customs section is "flake insurance" and recast deterrence. If a deposit is only $20, a person is much more likely to back out on the final payment when that $400 is due, as $20 is not much to lose. So, the customizer ends up using that $20 to buy the materials and makes the figure and spends that time, only to not get paid for it. That's what really hurts.

Ultimately, a customizer should work like a bonafide independent contractor and ask for payments at milestones and show progress. And put that calendar up front.

$20 to start for raw materials.

When head castings are done, $50 is due

When head painting is done $100 is due.

When clothing is done, $150 is due.

So on and so forth.

Ultimately, it will require that the customizer is more accountable, and it will be more work. And it will require mods to enforce the rules. And it will require the members to report the posts and/or customizer if they're not following the rules.

This is probably the best idea that I have seen come out of this thread. The issue is going to be how to best do that via forum tools.

 

[Doom Saber]

Re: UEGENT!!-anybody who is owed clothing from moe's production's must read this-URGE

thi is what happens when you live just on this forum. gee whiz has been around with a website for years. why people think that SS is the be all and end all of figure collecting is beyond me! they probably have more of a reputation than 90% of the customizers on here. to make that statement because he popped on here offering a high end custom for alot of money is really in POOR taste. they are an an integral part of OSR(one sixth republic) facebook. how many of you know what that even is? their just a 13,000 member 1/6 th site signing up 200 new members a day. i get it, you have your opinion, thats fine, sound off. sorry but when i see something that is directed at somebody that is so respectful and trust worthy that i have to have an opinion of my own. GEE WHIZ is good people who operate like a real business.

I agree. Even though I've never heard of Geewhiz till reading this thread, I can tell that he has been around in the 1/6 community for years because of his Facebook site and how it is presented. People who have sites with progress images and their company's phone number tends to have been doing services for years. As for the $1,600+ Batman, that figure already looks completed and produced into a run. It isn't like they asked money for it without any images to go by like Moe.

 

[Doom Saber]

Re: UEGENT!!-anybody who is owed clothing from moe's production's must read this-URGE

Perhaps just limit the amount of runs per artist, moe had how many open runs going on, perhaps 2 runs per artist at a time, maybe even 1 to limit the possibility of a massive money hit to a lot of people.

Once everyone on the list has their item the artist needs to get the thread closed or unpostable, or remove their paypal address from the first page, then they can start a new project or run.

I think that is a good idea since the more runs an artist has at one time is more at risk screwing ppl over. Correct me if I am wrong, but I think Moe had like 4 or 5 runs going on at the same time. I think he never ended one of his runs, instead he would resurrect the project after completion while having another project started. I remember that Chris Howes had like 10 or 11 runs pending when he disappeared. I think ppl here have to realize that the artists on this forum are not robots who can't take on 5+ projects with 20 units each at the same time. That is too much.

I also think that artists who tend to listen to the members here by creating projects they want right away are usually those who end up screwing ppl. With both Howes and Moe, they would create projects that ppl would think out loud about. Chris Howes accepted to take on any project ppl can think of without letting these ppl that he might be backed up and Moe seemed to create any clothing project after catching wind that a sculpture sculpted a custom head for a limited run here. Not to say all artists go to this route, but the majority of the artists in the 1/6 community usually create stuff for their own interest that then offer to us or start on projects that fans have been asking for years.

 

[kingellesar]

Re: UEGENT!!-anybody who is owed clothing from moe's production's must read this-URGE

Chem suit - $136 - October 13

 

[galactiboy]

Re: UEGENT!!-anybody who is owed clothing from moe's production's must read this-URGE

I don't know if anything can be done with Paypal, but I'm wondering if anyone who has filed a claim has mentioned the eBay account that is likely his? Maybe if those accounts are coupled the other could be shut down, or any money that comes into it seized and paid back to customers.

 

[Fangs of Death]

Re: UEGENT!!-anybody who is owed clothing from moe's production's must read this-URGE

I sincerely hope soon to be entering into doing customs (heads and clothing) for members of this board, and I'd like to pass comment, although I haven't bought anything from this Moe fella. There seems to be a consensus building to treat all customisers as potential thieves, to be on the safe side. If that's the system in place by the time I get my ball rolling, then so be it, but I'd much prefer to be able to sculpt and sew knowing I'm definitely not doing it for nothing, that people "interested" have not changed their minds. If a customiser is to embark on a project (with all its patterns to make, stuff to organise and buy) I think the standard form is, you pay up front. Being forced to be paid in piecework stages because of a fluke rotten apple is not only irritating but a bit insulting. There are ways of smelling scam artists long before they accrue a massive pile of loot, which are mostly common sense. Personally, I like to post WIPs--lots of them: surely they're a decent assurance? Just my 2c.