Those who disliked TLJ, are you still buying toys from it?

[ShadowX81]

3PO has more lines than Leia in ANH. The movie really just has two women in the entire movie (Beru and Leia).

And "The Great Escape" and "Reservoir Dogs" have no female speaking parts, whereas many movies such as "Bridesmaids" and "Pitch Perfect" are heavily female and only feature males in small supporting roles. What does it matter?


Saying that a film is great because it features an equal amount of lines spoken by genders is meaningless praise. And if that agenda was a criteria set by Kennedy that took precedence over telling satisfying and enjoyable story, then that is a massive problem. These kind of priorities automatically put a stifle on creativity.
Diversity should never be a need for a film. The only need should be to make a good movie, regardless of who is in it. That is all the audience cares about.

 

[TonTon]

It’s of course possible they went too far, but a bad character is a bad character and doesn’t need to always be blamed on an agenda. I thought the caretakers were terrible but I’m not looking for some agenda to blame them on. They seemed like female servile aliens, which would go counter to the supposed agenda.

 

[SilverStar17]

A bad character is a bad character.

Rose was a pointless character by all accounts.

Saying that a film is great because it features an equal amount of lines spoken by genders is meaningless praise. And if that agenda was a criteria set by Kennedy that took precedence over telling satisfying and enjoyable story, then that is a massive problem. These kind of priorities automatically put a stifle on creativity.
Diversity should never be a need for a film. The only need should be to make a good movie, regardless of who is in it. That is all the audience cares about.

Agree with all of these statements. And to add to Shadow's comment, that also goes for the characters within a film. If you're essentially forcing a character to be a particular gender or ethnicity (whatever either one of those may be) or forcefully inserting a new character into a film simply to be more "diverse" and that's taking precedence over actually producing a good character and story, then that's also an issue.

I equate that to buying more figures of a particular gender or ethnicity, regardless if you actually like the character or not, simply so you can say your collection is more "diverse".

 

[davejames]

By all accounts it was Abrams, Kasdan and Johnson that really came up with the story for this new trilogy. This story group appears to be responsible more for things like Rebels and the new comics and novels and making sure all the continuity fits together.

And I still don't understand what was so "forced" about having Rose be asian in the movie. Yes it was kind of a weak character, but that had nothing to do with her being asian.

 

[RandomHero]

She was a horrible character, yes, the forceful push for diversity is just more ammunition to not like her.

 

[ShadowX81]

Not to mention, the announcement of her existence came almost immediately after a bunch of articles criticizing Star Wars for not having any prominent Asian characters.

I just don't think its a coincidence that two years in a row we have had SW movies with prominent Asian characters, both times that character being the most vestigial part of the movie (Baze in Rouge One and Rose in TLJ). I think its less about forced diversity, and more about having characters that they think would be appealing to the Chinese market.

 

[SilverStar17]

And I still don't understand what was so "forced" about having Rose be asian in the movie. Yes it was kind of a weak character, but that had nothing to do with her being asian.

You'd be correct. Which is why nobody is saying the character Rose was forced to be Asian. The problem is Rose, an Asian character, was pointlessly inserted into the film in the first place. I'd still feel the same way even if Kate Winslet portrayed the character or if the character's name was Rick. It was a pointless character in terms of the story.

 

[RandomHero]

I think its less about forced diversity, and more about having characters that they think would be appealing to the Chinese market.

I think this is actually a good way to look at it.

 

[TonTon]

Not to mention, the announcement of her existence came almost immediately after a bunch of articles criticizing Star Wars for not having any prominent Asian characters.

I just don't think its a coincidence that two years in a row we have had SW movies with prominent Asian characters, both times that character being the most vestigial part of the movie (Baze in Rouge One and Rose in TLJ). I think its less about forced diversity, and more about having characters that they think would be appealing to the Chinese market.

Baze and Chirrut make sense in that line of thinking as the actors are well known in that market, and obviously worldwide box office totals have become much more important in recent decades. I know the actors who played the Kanjiklub gang in TFA are popular abroad too. The actor for Rose is just an Asian American actor, she's not a household name for anyone so she's not gonna draw anybody.

 

[ShadowX81]

I think this is actually a good way to look at it.

Exactly. If Rey or Luke were Asian I don't think we'd be having this discussion. Its more of an issue of including unneccessary characters just to have them, and then portraying them in an overly positive (yet ironically unlikeable) way to avoid risking offense of the portrayed demographic.

Standard movie-making theory states that a focused plot requires you to trim as many characters and plotlines as possible. Sort of like how they combined the intended character of Luke's sister and Leia into one character. This series seems to be more about adding more on and creating a messy narrative as a result.

I know the actors who played the Kanjiklub gang in TFA are popular abroad too. The actor for Rose is just an Asian American actor, she's not a household name for anyone so she's not gonna draw anybody.

Unfortunately that's not really how Hollywood thinks. All they see is positive box office results from including a demographic in a movie, and then assume the same people wont come back unless they keep being represented.

 

[SilverStar17]

Exactly. If Rey or Luke were Asian I don't think we'd be having this discussion. Its more of an issue of including unneccessary characters just to have them, and then portraying them in an overly positive (yet ironically unlikeable) way to avoid risking offense of the portrayed demographic.

Unfortunately that's not really how Hollywood thinks. All they see is positive box office results from including a demographic in a movie, and then assume the same people wont come back unless they keep being represented.

 

[davejames]

You'd be correct. Which is why nobody is saying the character Rose was forced to be Asian. The problem is Rose, an Asian character, was pointlessly inserted into the film in the first place. I'd still feel the same way even if Kate Winslet portrayed the character or if the character's name was Rick. It was a pointless character in terms of the story.

I thought she had a clear role in the movie, as someone to team up with Finn on this mission and give him someone to bounce of of with Rey out of the picture. I agree their entire storyline felt a bit superfluous, but that would have been the case even if it were Finn going off on the mission by himself.

 

[SilverStar17]

I thought she had a clear role in the movie, as someone to team up with Finn on this mission and give him someone to bounce of of with Rey out of the picture. I agree their entire storyline felt a bit superfluous, but that would have been the case even if it were Finn going off on the mission by himself.

Which is why I felt she was a pointless character.

 

[RandomHero]

If Rose was created just to give Finn a partner on his mission, then she already lost. Between talking to people here, talking to friends and family, talking to anyone, the one thing people seem to be unanimous on about the movie was that the casino planet scene accomplished nothing and was a giant waste of time.

Some people liked what they did with Luke, some people hate it. Some people like Finn, some people hate him. Some people felt Ackbar should have had an on screen death, some people don't care. But pretty much everyone I've talked to thinks that the casino scene was pointless. Not only was the mission a giant failure, but the whole thing could have been avoided if Holdo just informed one of the highest ranking members of her organization what she was doing.

Pretty much the only thing that comes as a result of the casino planet scene was Phasma's "death", which is another thing to be annoyed about if you wanted the character to have some relevance. So again, Rose lost for not only being a bad character played by an actress no one cares about, but for accomplishing absolutely nothing in any screen time.

 

[screamingmetal]

I thought she had a clear role in the movie, as someone to team up with Finn on this mission and give him someone to bounce of of with Rey out of the picture. I agree their entire storyline felt a bit superfluous, but that would have been the case even if it were Finn going on the mission by himself.

From what has been learned from the Art of TLJ book is that role was originally intended to be Poe. The reason Rian Johnson didn't use Poe was he thought it was a boring Dynamic.

 

[SilverStar17]

From what has been learned from the Art of TLJ book is that role was originally intended to be Poe. The reason Rian Johnson didn't use Poe was he thought it was a boring Dynamic.

Poe would have been a great candidate if they were adamant they wanted Finn to team up with someone, to help strengthen the friendship they forged in TFA and reduce the amount of characters in the fold.

 

[ShadowX81]

To be honest Poe himself is a pretty superfluous character that wasn't set up well in TFA, who was only saved by being played by an incredibly charismatic actor. If anything Poe and Finn should have been combined in the first movie. Maybe have Finn (in this case played by Oscar Issac) assume Poe's identity and take over his mission after Poe dies at the hands of the first order.

The biggest problem with Finn since the beginning has always been his portrayal. A redeemed trained killer should have made him a rouge badass with his background providing technical competence and knowledge of the enemy. Basically this series' version of Han Solo. Instead, they made him goofy, cowardly, and incompetant at every turn; constantly demasculated by the people around him. He ended up being more like this series' version of C-3PO.

If the Casino scene had to stay, id play it darker and more intense. Borrow notes from the opening scene of "Temple of Doom" and set the Casino up as a dark and seedy place filled with enemies. Play up the danger and isolation of it and make it intense, with Finn worried he will be recognized at any second. Like a spy movie. Maybe find a way to have Phasma there for some added tension.

Ditch the extended scenes of horse/sheep racing and instead just have a quick glance of pod-racing as a nice callback.

He obviously would need someone to talk to, so keep BB-8 there. Maybe have him disguised as BB-9E, with a scene of Finn preparing for their mission/putting on a tuxedo on the ship and telling BB-8 "You're going undercover too; but you aren't going to like this" while holding a bag of black panels or something.

 

[davejames]

^ Yeah I think that would have worked a lot better than what we got.

Although I can also understand why Johnson felt we needed someone on the cruiser to interact with Leia.

 

[xipotec]

I like the film well enough....but I only really want one version of any character.....

I already have Rey and Kylo....so not sure who else I would really want.

All the OT characters I prefer the original looks.


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[xipotec]

I like the film well enough....but I only really want one version of any character.....

I already have Rey and Kylo....so not sure who else I would really want.

All the OT characters I prefer the original looks.
I might pick up a Kylo head from Toy Anxiety if they come out

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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk