The Mandalorian (Star Wars Live Action Series)

[Sassafras]

Why not both? Asajj was my favorite character in TCW.

Specifically because IMO Ahsoka has been given plenty of time in the SW universe already IMO; also never found her especially compelling. Maybe toward the end of Clone Wars. I'm Ahsoka-ed out. Kicked back watching Rebels (wow, cool...and there she is. Again. And again...).

Asajj has been through it. More of a Boba "cast aside" character in that way. Which IMO makes her more interesting.

Ahsoka to me is like the Skywalkers - there WERE in theory, other characters with other lives going on. It was one of my attractions to the Mandalorian. A powerful AT performance (besides a better script) might've shifted that; but IMO Filoni needs more experience dealing with live action - building weight to a scene, for one thing.

Personally wish outside of Bo-katan (IMO Mando might as well meet up with some Mandalorians from Mandalore at some point, besides his own covert...) - that none of these CW/Rebels characters were showing up. At least not this early.

But, it takes time to build a compelling new character (sounds like Mandalorian was years in development); and Covid has made me humble. E.g. we're lucky we're getting anything, especially at this quality. Heck, for me the whole thing started with D+ because of the MCU, and all of that got derailed. (Now WB is doing it's thing and don't feel like signing up for HBO$$$ - I cancelled after the GOT debacle.)

So I'll roll with it, until I don't. This last episode helped; in spite of some questionable stuff like the jetpack. Srsly the jetpack was RIGHT THERE. Wasn't it? I need to watch again.

 

[Wor-Gar]

I agree that he's far more interesting than if he were played as an adolescent power fantasy, but I do think he's written with some jarring inconsistencies. A critique, not a condemnation. This show is at least as flawed as the OT, but it gets by on heart and charm, just like the OT.

To be fair, this crippling anxiety he's developing around Grogu that renders him incompetent is becoming consistent. I just don't know if that's what they're going for, or if it's just a lazy convenience to show off the skills of other characters.

I agree.

In ANH, I get the sense that Vader was treated a bit differently than he was by the time of ESB. It's almost like the interim time lapse either made him even more impatient with fools, or just allowed for wider spread of his (earned) reputation. The Empire was also working under a different pretense prior to ANH, whereas the dissolution of the Galactic Senate gave Vader less reason for any "diplomatic" behavior.

During the ESB timeframe, it's hard for me to imagine anyone having dealt with Vader as being eager to be assertive with him. Most who did, well... they get choked (even pre-ESB like Krennic and Motti). Fett didn't seem like he had any inclination for cowering to Vader in pressing for his interests (profit). That wouldn't come from being unaware of Vader's reputation, especially with several signs pointing to interactions between the two in the past.

The look on everyone's faces at the end of ESB when Vader turns from the window says it all. Lots of clinched buttholes.

The other difference is that Vader choking Motti was kind of scary in ANH... but in ESB, Vader's choking got played for laughs.

You can justify it any way you like, but in the end the writers and Lucas thought they could have a little fun with Vader's talent and the anticipation of pissing him off.



Regarding this last episode of The Mandalorian... I liked Fett fine. Loved his messed up Vader-esque head. I didn't think he looked anywhere as awkward as Lanky-Oly... that guy looked like a scarecrow. I didn't buy that he's been following Mando all this time. I thought the episode was awkwardly directed -- pretty clear Rodriquez only had interest in the fighting. Mando trying to push through the Force thing -- three times -- was pretty lame. All in all, nice to see Gideon finally. Dark Trooper didn't impress. Fett was fine. Mando didn't feel Mando-ish. Not a favorite episode. Preferred the one with Ahsoka. Seeing his ship get obliterated was powerful though. I felt bad at that moment.

 

[hellgrammite00]

Looks like the Lego Razor Crest just jumped in price.

 

[Khev]

Riiight, we don't have any points of contention there. I brought up the stealthy tracking too and concluded he was smart, economical, low-key and sneaky, which was to support his conduct in The Mandalorian wherein he would rather talk to Din instead of immediately fight him to the death, which I *believe* was more or less one of Khev's original problems with the characterization. He said "That's not Boba Fett!" (more or less) and I said based on ESB it pretty much was.

I still don't agree with your reasons for stating that the characterization for Fett sync'd up between ESB and Mando. Did that guy in ESB come across as *remotely* self-deprecating? No way. He was a d**k! And even seemed to enjoy going out of his way to unsettle a third party (Lando) for the sin of simply looking at him, lol.

As for his initial negotiations with Mando I can probably let that slide since this is the first time we've ever seen live-action Fett without his armor and weapons and possibly for that reason alone I'll give his behavior a pass. Fett truly was at a disadvantage and once Mando stood his ground despite the threat against Grugo he would have been a fool to press an open attack against a foe with such superior weapons and armor. But now that he's got his armor I hope that we see him return to OT form, or as ajp keeps eloquently describing a worthy fulfillment of the promise of his OT self.

I definitely *want* to like this version of the character so I'm trying to keep an open mind.

 

[Khev]

Yet in this context that statement doesn't contradict your own conclusions, but someone else insisting that Fett should act like The Terminator when I think he should act like Sun Tzu, based on what I've seen in ESB.

No not the Terminator. I'd say more like the Predator. Lots of technology, strategy, and ruthlessness and very little in the way of words or "team-ups".

 

[Khev]

First off, awesome posts all around today ajp! It's so nice to read such dissertations where all I have to do is say, "yep, yep, and yep."

It's amazing how much crap and damage George was able to stuff into what was probably just a few total minutes of changes spread out through three movies.

No kidding, lol.

On another note how crazy is it that after 40 years of live-action Fett we just now witnessed his first ever on-screen kills. How cool did the actor playing the first Stormie he took out with the gaffi feel, lol.

 

[ZE_501]

I still don't agree with your reasons for stating that the characterization for Fett sync'd up between ESB and Mando. Did that guy in ESB come across as *remotely* self-deprecating? No way. He was a d**k! And even seemed to enjoy going out of his way to unsettle a third party (Lando) for the sin of simply looking at him, lol.

As for his initial negotiations with Mando I can probably let that slide since this is the first time we've ever seen live-action Fett without his armor and weapons and possibly for that reason alone I'll give his behavior a pass. Fett truly was at a disadvantage and once Mando stood his ground despite the threat against Grugo he would have been a fool to press an open attack against a foe with such superior weapons and armor. But now that he's got his armor I hope that we see him return to OT form, or as ajp keeps eloquently describing a worthy fulfillment of the promise of his OT self.

I definitely *want* to like this version of the character so I'm trying to keep an open mind.

For one thing, he was younger and hadn?t been beaten and burned by creature acid and wandered the desert for an unspecified time. What I mean is he could have grown, if we accept your reading of ESB. I don?t, but that?s just because we have differing interpretations and opinions of very little data.

I honestly don?t understand how you get a freaking terminator (or seem to?) from ESB. There?s nothing concrete to suggest it; I thought I had backed up my opinion with concrete examples to form what I would call a justified belief, but who knows, maybe I?m blind too. We?ve all been watching that movie for 40 damn years.

But even if you?re right, compare 2020 Mike Tyson to the man he was. Years, maturity, the loss of a daughter, etc etc will change a man.

Now before you trot out ST Luke, let?s not go there since I?ve made my feelings about the ST concept clear ad nauseam and I?m sure no one in this thread wants to smell that dead horse.


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[ZE_501]

No not the Terminator. I'd say more like the Predator. Lots of technology, strategy, and ruthlessness and very little in the way of words or "team-ups".

Just saw this (reading backwards on Tapatalk) ... nothing in ESB suggested anything to me other than competence and lack of flash.

So to me, your reading is jump. Not impossible but a big jump.


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[ZE_501]

Need to add Leia to the list, tho she's less direct about it. Still rude tho.

Leia wasn?t working with him, though. Although they seemed to have crossed paths prior to her capture.


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[ZE_501]

"he dead". You're not going to do any better than that today so you should just call it. Love it!

[emoji38] ... I should have quit while I was ahead a looong time ago.


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[ZE_501]

Having your own interpretation of Fett's character based on his limited onscreen scenes is fine. I'm not going to tell you that it's "preposterous" to think he should act like Sun Tzu based on limited screen time. I simply disagree with how you perceive his actions, but that's why any art (like movies) and its subjective nature can make for great discussions. The point is that both of us are now on record giving characterizations for a guy, based on context we gathered, that makes him more than "a guy with a cool helmet holding a cool gun." Fair enough?

I think Khev?s writing style makes me reactive.

Even so, there are opinions and then there is justified belief. I think there is less of a jump from ESB Fett to Mando Fett, in terms of logic, then having him act like Predator and go on a killing spree without gathering intelligence or avoiding combat when it?s unnecessary.

I don?t think my position is gospel but I do think it?s reasoned enough to defend. I could always change my mind upon further reflection or faced with an argument I find particularly compelling.

I think a lot of people have a Boba Fett in their heads after 40 years. I was never a huge fan of the character so maybe I?m less prone to that, or maybe 40 years of ESB has also blinded me.


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[JAWS]

You had one job Favreau, and that was to not make Boba Fett a good guy.

I weathered half a decade of "they ruined Han, they ruined Leia, they ruined Luke, they ruined Palpatine" in total disagreement with the naysayers.

This might be where I jump ship.

I don't know. This episode was disjointed as hell. It was fun to see Robert Rodriguez cut loose but he was clearly in "Spy Kids" mode and I wanted "Alita."

I do admit to feeling a bit giddy when Slave I showed up and when Fett finally went to town in his own armor but eh...this was not the "Rogue One Vader" moment I was looking for. The thing I loved about seeing Vader unleashed in RO was that he truly still *felt* like OT Vader. I just can't tie anything about this current Fett to the icon from ESB.

I'll give this episode a second watch with tempered expectations to see if I feel differently but man I'm kind of in shock right now. Most of it felt like some cheesy 90's sci-fi show or hell a borderline home movie of SW nerds LARPing in the desert, lol. Maybe I'm being too harsh but damn I'm not gonna lie, I went from thinking that this show was some of the coolest SW ever to now rethinking whether I want to accept any of it.

At one point I was asking myself is this the Fett that I use to think of?? Can I buy that this is the Fett from ESB.

I think its like I am with much of the PT. I accept the characters for the the story they are in but when I am watching the OT.. I Just like can't picture PT Anakin being the man who would one day end up in the Vader Armor or that the stupid PT cartoon Yoda is the wise teacher of ESB. When Watching ESB this is not the Fett I will be thinking of.

But I can go with the flow with this. Really the OT is really the only thing that is 100% cannon to me now I can just sit back and enjoy these for what they are.

It does not make me dislike the Fett character anymore.

Thank god they made him bald and scared.. If he looked more like his AOTC character I might have checked out.

Okay I watched the Boba Fett scenes two more times.

To give credit where credit is due:

1. TM did a great job in his own right. Regardless of any PT connections or how I think OT Fett should have behaved TM's take on the character was still an interesting and entertaining one. I'm glad that he played Boba different than Jango and his "crazed" expressions when taking out the Stormies with the gaffi were fun without being over the top ridiculous like ROTS Palps fighting Mace. Or maybe they were over the top but TM pulled it off anyway.

2. I really liked that they "canonized" Jango's status as a Death Watch foundling and assumedly by extension Boba as well. It seemed that in the Clone Wars cartoon George was trying to move away from that and thereby strip the Fetts of the last bit of interesting lore that the character originated with. So kudos to Favreau for reinstating him as a true Mandalorian.

3. While I don't know that him dispatching the derpy Stormtroopers made him a badass it *did* make him scary, which I *loved.* And his entrance after donning the armor nicely retained his ROTJ tactic of jetpacking within arm's reach of his foe from behind. None of the other Mandalorians we've seen have done that so that was a really nice touch that I daresay even kind of redeemed his previously "foolhardy" move of landing within lightsaber range of Luke on the skiff. We can now more easily assume that he normally kicks ass after freaking someone out by appearing that close from out of the sky.

4. His gunslinger moves really weren't too over the top and while he was tossing and flipping Stormtroopers with some of his judo moves *he* at least wasn't jumping and flipping around. So they didn't commit the same sins as ROTS Palpatine and I would say that his moves were more in line with RO Vader (in other words not being totally out of bounds for an established OT character.) And launching the projectiles from his knee armor was awesome.

5. Watching grown Boba Fett in his original armor flying Slave I was...okay I'm not gonna lie utterly awesome, lol. I'm not sure how I feel about him taking orders from the chick ("Stop the Dark Troopers", "yes ma'am," "No let them go," "okay ma'am") but eh.

6. I may not think that Mando Fett fits perfectly with OT Fett but is it *worse* than the difference between ESB and ROTJ Fett? Hmmm. Maybe not. What I do think he fits well enough with is the Holiday Special Fett who I actually *do* consider to be canon. And HS Fett was pretty chatty and didn't sound like his live-action counterpart so maybe I can just chill out about needing his character to be consistent across all media. I love Alden's Han Solo even though I fully recognize that he isn't Harrison Ford. But I accept that movie because it's just a good movie and Alden did a great job and his Han Solo is still cool even if he might not match up perfectly with the character as I see him. Same with Glover's Lando.

Despite initially recoiling from this version of Fett I might settle into a "the jury is out until I see more" mindset like ajp.

7. I actually liked the Dark Troopers. Very 90's EU to me. Fun stuff and looking forward to seeing more.

8. Gideon sending two unarmed Stormtroopers into Grogu's cell for the sole purpose of letting them get their asses kicked until Grogu wore himself out was awesome and kind of hilarious, lol. Gideon continues to be a really fun bad guy.

Agreed. The stuff was good overall.


Complete fan boy stuff though. Fan Service in the highest regard.. Felt more like something I might see on youtube then an actual studio production.

Like I said before though.. While rolling my eyes.. I got goosebumps I'm a sucker.

No not the Terminator. I'd say more like the Predator. Lots of technology, strategy, and ruthlessness and very little in the way of words or "team-ups".

Yep.. Always how I envisioned him.

I dont mind him teaming up for a min with Mando.. But I am hoping he ends up more like Lee Van Cliff then Clint Eastwood.

 

[Khev]

But even if you?re right, compare 2020 Mike Tyson to the man he was. Years, maturity, the loss of a daughter, etc etc will change a man.

Was Tyson that different between 1983 and 1988 though? This isn't a situation like Luke, Han, and Leia in the ST. Mando takes place just five years after ROTJ, not 30. I am open to him being a little "off" after the Sarlacc, especially if he was in there for months or years. My initial take while watching this latest episode was that he was just too different, or different in the wrong way, lol. But like I said I'm still willing to let this version win me over.

I think its like I am with much of the PT. I accept the characters for the the story they are in but when I am watching the OT.. I Just like can't picture PT Anakin being the man who would one day end up in the Vader Armor or that the stupid PT cartoon Yoda is the wise teacher of ESB. When Watching ESB this is not the Fett I will be thinking of.

Perfectly said. I agree 100%.

One kind of funny goof in this episode was when the Dark Trooper stole Grugo and then Mando used his helmet to zoom *way* up into the sky and get a close-up view of Grugo dangling from the one Dark Trooper's arm. Um so what was the point of him always holding up the scope from his sniper rifle in previous episodes if his helmet can already do a better job, lol.

 

[ZE_501]

Was Tyson that different between 1983 and 1988 though?

You got me dead to rights there; I don?t know why in my head there was a very long interval as opposed to 5 years, so aging is a bad example but trauma still stands, depending on what he *actually* went through out in the Dune Sea.


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[ajp4mgs]

First off, awesome posts all around today ajp! It's so nice to read such dissertations where all I have to do is say, "yep, yep, and yep."

Much appreciated, sir.

On another note how crazy is it that after 40 years of live-action Fett we just now witnessed his first ever on-screen kills. How cool did the actor playing the first Stormie he took out with the gaffi feel, lol.

I'd pay them to let me be that guy.

As for my approach to Boba in Mando going forward, it's pretty simple. Not sure if it aligns with where you're at, but it's like this: If this Boba is just a continuation of this "honor code," negotiating, rescuer of the wounded... then to me he'll be little more than a sissyfication of what Boba Fett was in the OT. He'll be a typical post-millennial adjustment of a character who used to be (to me, at least) a better version from an era where we didn't need to pussify every single character for fear that someone might actually like a true badass.

I think there's something that will always be undeniably cool and threatening about an icy villain who couldn't give less of a **** about body count. That was Fett to me, and I dug it. Doesn't mean I can't be entertained by the Mando version, but I definitely want to see at least *some* sense of the villain I always thought was pretty clear cut in how he was framed in ESB.

I think Khev?s writing style makes me reactive.

Even so, there are opinions and then there is justified belief. I think there is less of a jump from ESB Fett to Mando Fett, in terms of logic, then having him act like Predator and go on a killing spree without gathering intelligence or avoiding combat when it?s unnecessary.

I don?t think my position is gospel but I do think it?s reasoned enough to defend. I could always change my mind upon further reflection or faced with an argument I find particularly compelling.

I think a lot of people have a Boba Fett in their heads after 40 years. I was never a huge fan of the character so maybe I?m less prone to that, or maybe 40 years of ESB has also blinded me.


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I think the Predator comparison is a fair one in many respects, but of course it wasn't meant to be a full equating of the two characters. The key addendum I'd put on it is that Fett has an actual personality (yes, even detectable from only a couple of minutes of screen time). As Khev said, he's a d**k.

Predator hunted for sport; Fett hunts for profit. Either way, the end result is essentially a remorseless killer who is skilled at tracking, anticipating, and killing. Anyone who sounds dejected when told that he is not allowed to disintegrate his quarry isn't someone who I'd think is going to be prone to needless complexity with the approach to his job. Everyone, and everything, is a dispensable item... so long as he gets paid.

And I don't think just because Fett is adept at tracking strategy means that he'd need to employ any sophisticated tactics to get what he wants once he's done tracking. If his armor (rightly belonging to him) is what he wants, then I don't think he'd need an elaborate team-up scenario to find a way to just take it back. His capacity as the premier SW bounty hunter almost makes this a necessity.

But yeah, I'm also not trying to suggest you're "wrong" to view Fett however you do, rather just explaining *my* perspective and how I believe he was (fairly clearly) portrayed. It'd be nice if I got to see that character in a more protracted way 40 years later. A lesser version will never be as satisfying to me. But "Boba Fat" still has a chance to be entertaining on some level.

 

[Otomofan]

Guys. I know it's science fiction "FANTASY" but they do try to portray humans as the same as humans in our universe. Meaning they need to breath, they need to eat, they can freeze to death, etc.

So having said that, there's no way Boba Fett was in that Sarlacc for longer than....say...48 hours? I don't know what the EU ever wrote about the innards of the Sarlacc so all I have to go on is what 3PO says in the movie. It doesn't sound like there's a lot of air or water in there. I don't think you can set up a little camp and survive on eating dead Weequays for months or years. Plus, Boba Fett's helmet and armor never seemed airtight in any of its appearances.

I know I'm overthinking it. It just would have been nice for a little more to go on than some vague possible explanation of a dragon possibly eating the sarlacc that Fett was tossed in. I thought sarlaccs were way bigger than that dragon anyway.

I'm sure the writers were thinking the same thing....no matter what they say it's gonna sound ridiculous, so let's just say as little as possible and hope fans ignore it when they see how awesome Fat Old Boba is.

 

[TheDucky]

Do you smell that? It’s... *sniff* smells like OT elitists.

This Fett was 1000x better than anything shown in the OT. He had more character development, lines, and action scenes in a few short minutes than in the OT combined. Seems like a bunch of you had this deluded view of Fett, one that was never even shown in the OT, thus you have no real right to complain about any changes to your fictional take on Fett.

Fett was the most overrated character in the OT. Did nothing. His entire character/legacy depended on the fact that Vader hired him. What a joke of a character to gain there reputation off another. Now THAT is a real poser.

 

[user 64404]

Do you smell that? It’s... *sniff* smells like OT elitists.

This Fett was 1000x better than anything shown in the OT. He had more character development, lines, and action scenes in a few short minutes than in the OT combined. Seems like a bunch of you had this deluded view of Fett, one that was never even shown in the OT, thus you have no real right to complain about any changes to your fictional take on Fett.

Fett was the most overrated character in the OT. Did nothing. His entire character/legacy depended on the fact that Vader hired him. What a joke of a character to gain there reputation off another. Now THAT is a real poser.

I completely agree with you, Fett as just OT character is just a guy with cool design.
In the PT is where he shines as Jango Fett, considering just the live action appearances, he tries to be like his dad or the idealized version of his dad. You guys forget that Mando is a bounty hunter and a Mandalorian foundling just like Fett, thats why Boba is beiyng soo diplomatic.

 

[Khev]

Guys. I know it's science fiction "FANTASY" but they do try to portray humans as the same as humans in our universe. Meaning they need to breath, they need to eat, they can freeze to death, etc.

So having said that, there's no way Boba Fett was in that Sarlacc for longer than....say...48 hours? I don't know what the EU ever wrote about the innards of the Sarlacc so all I have to go on is what 3PO says in the movie. It doesn't sound like there's a lot of air or water in there. I don't think you can set up a little camp and survive on eating dead Weequays for months or years.

I used to think that until I read some cool EU book that indicated that the Sarlacc did some freaky HR Giger type **** where it basically fused itself with parts of its victims bodies and kept them alive via some sort of organic IV. They were kept in some sort of weird stasis where they really *did* get agonizingly digested, fully alive and conscious, for a thousand years. *shudder*

 

[user 64404]

Do you guys think that Grogu was just tired that he could no take the Darksaber from the hands of Gideon or Gideon has force shield?